[RWC2019][Semi-Final 1] England vs. New Zealand (26/10/2019)

[Ferrari333SP]

 

[Larksea]

Remember when Retallick called Lawes "Michael Lawes"
#ArrogantAllBlacks

Just seen Haskell's comment on it:
"After that match - which we lost - I walked past Retallick and said: 'Learn our f..... names next time you p....'"


Love a bit of bants in the pre-match build up

I had a fiery hot south american girlfriend who's two best friends were a guy and another hot south American girl who's names were almost identical, literally one vowel separated them.
I was driving with her once talking about something and in conversation said the girlfriends name instead of the guy friend and the fecal matter hit the nuclear reactor cooling tower, hitting the fan doesn't quite accurately describe what transpired that fateful night.
Anyway... Someone needs to tell James for that comeback to work you actually need to win the game

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Thing is I think New Zealand have shown their hand a good hand mind you but I don't think they can get any better. England you sense were just starting against Australia after a sluggish start. Basically I think England have another gear to click into New Zealand haven't but are still good.

Think that might be wishful thinking. NZ stepped off after their second try I thought, just started playing heads up rugby which was more than enough against us.

 

[RedCard]

Thing is I think New Zealand have shown their hand a good hand mind you but I don't think they can get any better. England you sense were just starting against Australia after a sluggish start. Basically I think England have another gear to click into New Zealand haven't but are still good.

Problem is England also have a bigger drop off and can struggle to get out of 2nd gear a bit to often. NZ are more consistent at achieving the higher level. Their average performance is someway past any other nations average performance. England's best level is up there in fairness to confidently compete and possibly beat an all firing Kiwi team, just not sure they can put a string of top level performances together.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Thing is I think New Zealand have shown their hand a good hand mind you but I don't think they can get any better. England you sense were just starting against Australia after a sluggish start. Basically I think England have another gear to click into New Zealand haven't but are still good.

Think that might be wishful thinking. NZ stepped off after their second try I thought, just started playing heads up rugby which was more than enough against us which was more than enough to put us away.

 

[RedCard]

Without watching it. is it basically "Born in England, Made in Wales!"

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Problem is England also have a bigger drop off and can struggle to get out of 2nd gear a bit to often. NZ are more consistent at achieving the higher level. Their average performance is someway past any other nations average performance. England's best level is up there in fairness to confidently compete and possibly beat an all firing Kiwi team, just not sure they can put a string of top level performances together.

Yeah that's the whole problem - England have the potential to be very poor if we go down a gear or so, which relatively speaking NZ just don't have.

Wow, according to Espn NZ conceded 13 penalties against Ireland!

 

[ncurd]

If you think we are going to make less metres than the Aussies, you're in for a very rude awakening!

Your going to keep running from your 22 too? Cool!

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Watching those England Australia highlights again, Daly gets done by someone dummying the same direction as they're running.

You mean he anticipated that he'd be beaten by the step the other way if he didn't stabilise himself? And then he got beaten for pace.

In fairness he also predicted we'd make the final in 2015.

But in all honesty, I know he lives on the other side of the world but I wish he was a pundit on Irish tv. Really smart guy, very articulate, all round legend, and one of the most intellegent rugby players I've seen.

He is on the panel for every game on nzs coverage
Great insights into the nh players , including how the Irish were feeling in camp after losing to Japan ( because he talked to a bunch of them, being his friends)

 

[Cooper]

Your going to keep running from your 22 too? Cool!

Sure, but unlike the Aussies, we are quite good at it!!!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

If you think we are going to make less metres than the Aussies, you're in for a very rude awakening!

To be fair you made fewer metres than that in all your 'proper' games so far (Sorry Namibia and Canada)

Which is in no way surprising. New Zealand don't run the ball from just anywhere, contrary to what many people seem to think.

 

[Cooper]

To be fair you made fewer metres than that in all your 'proper' games so far (Sorry Namibia and Canada)

Which is in no way surprising. New Zealand don't run the ball from just anywhere, contrary to what many people seem to think.

Yeah, just having a laugh at the expense of our old pals over the ditch!

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Ah, but that is where you are wrong my friend. Since we last met, a lot has changed for the All Blacks, especially in the back-line.

Going back to last year, we were running a single playmaker set up and still running our stock standard 1-3-3-1 formation. I explained in the Irish thread prior to the match that ever since our EotY tour last year, where our attack had obviously largely been contained and 'found out' (Barrett/MF being stifled and been given no room), Hansen and Foster ripped up the playbook and went to work on creating new formations to unlock rush defences. This has mainly been Foster's project and to his credit, it looks like so far, he has nailed it.

We now have a dual playmaker formation, with Mo'unga coming in at 10 and Barrett dropping to 15. Bless Ben Smith, but Beaudy is working better there now and can play as a 10 if required. On offense we are running at least up to 4-5 different formations, these vary between 3-3-2 and 2-2-3-1 and our traditional 1-3-3-1. This has given some of our new players new ball carrying roles, particularly Read who now works as central pod carrier and Ardie now can be spotted on the wings in a number of formations, the new formations are very hard to set up against defensively. This has taken a number of games to bed in, but Hansen/Foster have timed it well and haven't shown our cards too much in the RC, where it was only really unveiled and rolled out vs Australia in the 2nd Bledisloe game. It has since then been continuing to integrate and has come to fruition in the SA game and executed in the Ireland game.

A few posters are probably tired of hearing about it. But I'm really excited to see it all in action again vs England, because it's brought us back to scoring great tries.

We started the dual playmaker thing last year, with Damian McKenzie at fullback.

Got to remember Cane is still on the bench. If things aren't going as good as expected at HT, I expect Cane to come on. I pick him to come on around the 50/55 minute mark anyway.

Brodie will come off early, around 45 minutes, with Scott moving to lock, to be replaced by Tuipulotu at 70

Scott Barrett at 6 would be interesting, how does he play? Is it like lawes at 6? Good player but by havong a lock at 6 you lose something in terms of breakdown or is he more mobile than he looks?

An extra lock shows us where NZ will be targeting.

A little like that, but he is very mobile. Not the same as having savea and cane but savea at 7 means a greater turnover threat. Cane will get plenty of minutes though, for sure.

I don't see this as a preference of barret over cane, it's more a calculation of what lineups we want at which times of the game. Physical at the start with a turnover threat, mobile in the middle with good defence and savea playing more of a running game.

When you say it's obvious what nz will be targeting, what are you referring to? I'm unsure myself. Is it line out, physicality, or trying to create mauls on defence?

Scott Barret is one of those guys like Reuben Thorne and Jonno gibbes who isn't quite a lock and isn't quite a 6, he's somewhere in between. He is more athletic than either of those two though, but not as smart.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Yeah, just having a laugh at the expense of our old pals over the ditch!

You've earned that right, I'll grant

 

[40/20]

That was a good watch. Comes across as an articulate and well rounded dude.

Big unit too.

 

[james5000]

I haven't seen a hell of a lot of the English hookers tbh, but I always rated Hartley quite highly (not on the level of Coles or Taylor mind you) are they indeed much better than Hartley?

Seems like many posters around here have the English hookers over the kiwi's?

I personally think Coles is the 2nd best hooker in the world (just behind Marx) and Taylor isn't too shabby himself.

I do have a southern bias though (no rugby channel for me), so don't see a hell of a lot of the Northerners.


On the bench match ups

Finishers
16 Luke Cowan-Dickie vs Dane Coles
17 Joe Marler vs Ofa Tuungafasi
18 Dan Cole vs Angus Ta'avao
19 George Kruis vs Patrick Tuipulotu
20 Mark Wilson vs Sam Cane
21 Willi Heinz vs TJ Perenara
22 Henry Slade vs Sonny Bill Williams
23 Jonathan Joseph vs Jordie Barrett


Is this considered a very strong English bench on a historical level? (As in stronger than usual, rather than best ever)

I feel like this is a strong AB's bench,

I rate Coles and TJ better than our starters. I know Smith played well on the weekend, but in the last 12 months Ive felt like TJ surpassed him.
Obviously Cane is usually a starter, and the rest of the bench has a bit of X factor and can make a bit of an impact around the field.

 

[Cooper]

We started the dual playmaker thing last year, with Damian McKenzie at fullback.

Kinda, McKenzie played the majority of his pro career at 15, then we tried to mould him into a 10/15, I felt it was a bit of a failed experiment, like Beaudy he's naturally better at 15 with loads of space to work with. Barrett was a bit different, he started out replacement 15, then we played him at 10 for a few years where he absolutely killed it, then teams clued up to his game and his kicking game and his decision making game wasn't strong enough to handle the role, so we had to bring in Richie who is naturally a 10 and has more to his overall game than Beaudy at 10.

 

[Cooper]

I rate Coles and TJ better than our starters. I know Smith played well on the weekend, but in the last 12 months Ive felt like TJ surpassed him.
.

Why do you think TJ is better than Aaron?

 

[munstermuffin]

A mate had a bet on a SA vs Eng final back in July.
I feel it may come through.

 

[Scotty]

We started the dual playmaker thing last year, with Damian McKenzie at fullback.

Brodie will come off early, around 45 minutes, with Scott moving to lock, to be replaced by Tuipulotu at 70

A little like that, but he is very mobile. Not the same as having savea and cane but savea at 7 means a greater turnover threat. Cane will get plenty of minutes though, for sure.

I don't see this as a preference of barret over cane, it's more a calculation of what lineups we want at which times of the game. Physical at the start with a turnover threat, mobile in the middle with good defence and savea playing more of a running game.

When you say it's obvious what nz will be targeting, what are you referring to? I'm unsure myself. Is it line out, physicality, or trying to create mauls on defence?

Scott Barret is one of those guys like Reuben Thorne and Jonno gibbes who isn't quite a lock and isn't quite a 6, he's somewhere in between. He is more athletic than either of those two though, but not as smart.

I was refering to the line out, having a 4th option coupled with success you had at the line out last time. Ofcourse there will be other reasons.