RWC Semi Final: New Zealand - Australia (16-10-2011, 21:00)

[Dizzy]

england are boring

Yeah, I dont get how Olly can say that when we played like England but better. Forward play and kick like crazy

 

[Black Heart]

I think this is the last hoorah for many New Zealand players. Carter, McCaw, Thorn, Smith, Mils, Nonu, Reid, Woodcock, Mealamu, Hore... None of them will be around for the next tournament. If they are, New Zealand are going to find themselves in a similar position to what we were this time around. Hanging on to has-beens and old folks.

2 Years ago after the Lions series, we were at our peak, the best we could be. New Zealand are there now, having built a team for the last 8 years.

After this tournament, New Zealand need to get on with bringing their youngsters through. Otherwise I have no doubt, they will be on the decline.

When was the last time New Zealand has been on a "decline" (as you put it) rugby wise?

We've definatly got no problem with young talent. There's quite a surplus of it which I believe creates a disadvantage.

 

[james5000]

I think this is the last hoorah for many New Zealand players. Carter, McCaw, Thorn, Smith, Mils, Nonu, Reid, Woodcock, Mealamu, Hore... None of them will be around for the next tournament. If they are, New Zealand are going to find themselves in a similar position to what we were this time around. Hanging on to has-beens and old folks.

2 Years ago after the Lions series, we were at our peak, the best we could be. New Zealand are there now, having built a team for the last 8 years.

After this tournament, New Zealand need to get on with bringing their youngsters through. Otherwise I have no doubt, they will be on the decline.

Kieran Read will be the next AB's captain, he's only 25 years old, if he stays healthy he will be there for the next world cup and maybe the one after that.

I agree that most of those players are in the twilight of their career's, I have my doubts whether any of them will be at 2015 World Cup.
It's just the nature of Rugby, a young man's game. NZ has enough talent to cope with the eventual loss of those players.

 

[Black Heart]

Kieran Read will be the next AB's captain, he's only 25 years old, if he stays healthy he will be there for the next world cup and maybe the one after that.

I agree that most of those players are in the twilight of their career's, I have my doubts whether any of them will be at 2015 World Cup.
It's just the nature of Rugby, a young man's game. NZ has enough talent to cope with the eventual loss of those players.

If their form is still there in 2015, there's no reason why Jerome Kaino, Richard Kahui, Andy Ellis and Ben Franks can't be there. I would put my money on Kaino holding his jersey for at least the next 3 years, injury aside.

Of the other players, Kieran Read, Sam Whitelock, Victor Vito, Israel Dagg, Owen Franks, Zac Guildford, Aaron Cruden, Colin Slade and Isaia Toeava should all still be around and avaliable for selection. I didn't include Sonny Bill because I expect will head back to the NRL next year.

Looking at the blokes we've got waiting in the wings, the future of the squad looks very exciting. Matt Todd, Ben Smith, Wyatt Crockett, James Broadhurst, Hikawera Elliot, Robbie Fruean etc should all make a solid impact.

 

[Tricia McMillan]

Not that I'm into blokes or anything but he does look like a troll's backside.

I think he's quite cute, in his own way.

He's no Sonny Bill Williams or Jonny Wilkinson though (if I'm going to compare him to good-looking rugby players).

 

[T-Rex]

If their form is still there in 2015, there's no reason why Jerome Kaino, Richard Kahui, Andy Ellis and Ben Franks can't be there. I would put my money on Kaino holding his jersey for at least the next 3 years, injury aside.

Of the other players, Kieran Read, Sam Whitelock, Victor Vito, Israel Dagg, Owen Franks, Zac Guildford, Aaron Cruden, Colin Slade and Isaia Toeava should all still be around and avaliable for selection. I didn't include Sonny Bill because I expect will head back to the NRL next year.

Looking at the blokes we've got waiting in the wings, the future of the squad looks very exciting. Matt Todd, Ben Smith, Wyatt Crockett, James Broadhurst, Hikawera Elliot, Robbie Fruean etc should all make a solid impact.

Sonny Bill is banned from the NRL until 2013, unless he returns to the Dogs, which is unlikely.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Lachie Munro.

Lachie Munro is an average wing for Northland, can't see him breaking into the AB's anytime soon. Especially not at 10 (since he was given a go there for Auckland and failed).

 

[TRF_heineken]

II didn't include Sonny Bill because I expect will head back to the NRL next year.

I thought the showpony signed for the Highlanders next year??

 

[Black Heart]

I thought the showpony signed for the Highlanders next year??

Sorry, I meant 2013.

He's presumably signed with the Blues.

 

[Black Heart]

Sonny Bill is banned from the NRL until 2013, unless he returns to the Dogs, which is unlikely.

Yeah I was thinking too far ahead. The talk is that he's signed with the Blues in 2012 but that info won't be disclosed until after the World Cup.

 

[Bazzy]

Thought Gareth Anscombe is suppose to be the next big thing? He was very good for the baby blacks so if he keeps developing, would think he'll definitely be in the next wc plan.

 

[Black Heart]

Thought Gareth Anscombe is suppose to be the next big thing? He was very good for the baby blacks so if he keeps developing, would think he'll definitely be in the next wc plan.

Anscombe vs Cruden.

Should be good.

 

[james5000]

Thought Gareth Anscombe is suppose to be the next big thing? He was very good for the baby blacks so if he keeps developing, would think he'll definitely be in the next wc plan.

He may do but Cruden was far more dominant at that level when he played, every year we have talented players coming through the ranks.
I don't think Anscombe will ever be as good as Cruden, but their both starting out so you never know.

 

[ranger]

What is that based on? half a dozen average games for Taranaki? Wait until he has actually played well before annointing him mate.

To say he hasn't played well is a touch harsh. He played better than any other 10 behind Cruden and Donald in the ITM (There is a shield in the trophy case that he won himself effectively) and can only improve. Im a Cruden fan but i really think that by 2015 he will have to fight for the start. Rivalry can only be good for NZ rugby, look what Braid/Holah did for McCaw.

As for NZ being on the decline after this, i really doubt it. Surely the Under 20s performances speak for themselves..
The only problems i can see effecting NZ for their next campaign are:
-Depth at hooker behind Hika Elliot,
-The inexperience of the most talented 9s (Parenara, Kerr-Barlow, Smith), although Alby Matthewson will be in his prime and Ellis and Weepu will only be 30 and 31, so could be a solid squad options.
-A powerhouse scrummaging lock to replace Thorn. (Hoeta, Moli and Retalick look pretty good for it)
-Too many talented 10s to choose from
-The question of what kind of midfield dynamic to run with
-Outside backs will be up for grabs until the weeks leading up to the tournament, so no point worrying about that now.

It could be a lot worse..

edit: NZ 10s as of next year:

Carter > Cruden > Barrett > Slade> Weepu > Bleyendaal > Anscombe = Sopoaga

 

[TRF_heineken]

Sorry, I meant 2013.

He's presumably signed with the Blues.

Is he Also going to the Blues??!! Geez!! does the Blues even have a rugby academy??

 

[donmcdazzle]

To say he hasn't played well is a touch harsh. He played better than any other 10 behind Cruden and Donald in the ITM (There is a shield in the trophy case that he won himself effectively) and can only improve. Im a Cruden fan but i really think that by 2015 he will have to fight for the start. Rivalry can only be good for NZ rugby, look what Braid/Holah did for McCaw.

As for NZ being on the decline after this, i really doubt it. Surely the Under 20s performances speak for themselves..
The only problems i can see effecting NZ for their next campaign are:
-Depth at hooker behind Hika Elliot,
-The inexperience of the most talented 9s (Parenara, Kerr-Barlow, Smith), although Alby Matthewson will be in his prime and Ellis and Weepu will only be 30 and 31, so could be a solid squad options.
-A powerhouse scrummaging lock to replace Thorn. (Hoeta, Moli and Retalick look pretty good for it)
-Too many talented 10s to choose from
-The question of what kind of midfield dynamic to run with
-Outside backs will be up for grabs until the weeks leading up to the tournament, so no point worrying about that now.

It could be a lot worse..

Thought the naki forwards were pretty good in that shield game too.. no doubt he has some potential but he is bloody unpolished, he had flashes of good play. Agreed though there's plenty of good guys coming through, Hoeata will be the next Brad Thorn I hope. I'd like to see Crotty kick on, also think Tom Taylor could be the next Aaron Mauger type guy for Canterbury.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Is he Also going to the Blues??!! Geez!! does the Blues even have a rugby academy??

It's Chiefs or Blues, I wouldn't rule out the Chiefs given the Cruden/Kahui and also Wayne Smith combo. That would be a pretty good 10/12/13 combo.

 

[Black Heart]

Is he Also going to the Blues??!! Geez!! does the Blues even have a rugby academy??

The deal won't be announced until after the world cup for some reason (presumably he won't get as much spotlight time if he announces it now) but the word through the media grape vine is that he'll head to Auckland.

 

[Dizzy]

The deal won't be announced until after the world cup for some reason (presumably he won't get as much spotlight time if he announces it now) but the word through the media grape vine is that he'll head to Auckland.

So the deal has been made?!?!.. or he is making his deal after the world cup? thats how I took it.

 

[Muzzy]

To say he hasn't played well is a touch harsh. He played better than any other 10 behind Cruden and Donald in the ITM (There is a shield in the trophy case that he won himself effectively) and can only improve. Im a Cruden fan but i really think that by 2015 he will have to fight for the start. Rivalry can only be good for NZ rugby, look what Braid/Holah did for McCaw.

As for NZ being on the decline after this, i really doubt it. Surely the Under 20s performances speak for themselves..
The only problems i can see effecting NZ for their next campaign are:
-Depth at hooker behind Hika Elliot,
-The inexperience of the most talented 9s (Parenara, Kerr-Barlow, Smith), although Alby Matthewson will be in his prime and Ellis and Weepu will only be 30 and 31, so could be a solid squad options.
-A powerhouse scrummaging lock to replace Thorn. (Hoeta, Moli and Retalick look pretty good for it)
-Too many talented 10s to choose from
-The question of what kind of midfield dynamic to run with
-Outside backs will be up for grabs until the weeks leading up to the tournament, so no point worrying about that now.

It could be a lot worse..

edit: NZ 10s as of next year:

Carter > Cruden > Barrett > Slade> Weepu > Bleyendaal > Anscombe = Sopoaga

Luatua also looks promising as a lock, i hated him at first but he's becoming a good player, I think its time for NZ to start phasing McCaw out after the world cup too, Vito looked really good at 7