RWC Quarter Final: All Blacks - Argentina (09-10-2011, 20:30)

[TRF_Olyy]

kahui is injured but no idea why he is over Toeava

SBW had played like three part games on the wing.....maybe vito on the wing was planned!

Ah, didn't realise about Kahui - However I still don't understand why he'd start over Toeava

 

[james5000]

I suppose it is debatable Argentina were ranked as high as 6th pre 2007 world cup. Still would be considered over achieving to make it to number 3. There were no rankings pre 2003ish i think, but Argentina have been competitive with teams like Ireland for a very long time.

I'd go as far as to say, Argentina always have and always will give Ireland problems.

 

[cardassian]

Ah, didn't realise about Kahui - However I still don't understand why he'd start over Toeava

Cause SBW is a class above Toeava.

 

[Xapi]

Argentina coming third place in the 2007 World Cup was not as freakish as saying Kenya reached the semi finals of the cricket World Cup in 2003

Los Pumas beat EVERY 6 Nations side between 2005-07 and that side was I think in the top 4 ranked sides at the time, it wasn't a freak it was deserved (unlike the runners up of the RWC 07 who Argentina would have beaten then)

arguably the Pumas have overachieved this World Cup compared to 2007, as they have been really poor the last couple of times I saw them play (Ireland 2010, Wales 2011) but they gave England a harder match than I expected and beat Scotland, they also played above themselves in 1999 when they beat Ireland so that's twice they've played above themselves at least

That's my point, the 2007 Pumas were a great team, much better than the 2011, but I don't know if they were Bronze medal material. The match against France was a match that, on paper, should have gone to France, specially playing at home. And the Pumas beat them twice.

Excluding 2003, Argentina has been consistently going above the expectations in RWCs.

 

[james5000]

Cause SBW is a class above Toeava.

Agree, SBW is on fire atm, looks better every time he plays.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Cause SBW is a class above Toeava.

In the centres, perhaps, but on the wing?
40-50mins of game time is enough to convince me that he's better - think bringing him off of the bench onto the wing, again, would be the better option
I suppose getting his first start at wing against Argentina is better than against Aus/SA though (no disrespect meant to Argentina)

 

[Darwin]

Ah, didn't realise about Kahui - However I still don't understand why he'd start over Toeava

The selection of SBW over Toeava suggests to me that the selectors are thinking (at least to some degree) about next weeks game (if of course they make it to next week!). SBW has clearly surpassed Toeava as a preferred bench player, so it does make some sense to give him as much game time as possible (especially on the wing). I'm not a big fan of this sort of selection, but in this game I think SBW is going to be just as effective as Toeava, so it doesn't bother me too much.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

In the centres, perhaps, but on the wing?
40-50mins of game time is enough to convince me that he's better - think bringing him off of the bench onto the wing, again, would be the better option
I suppose getting his first start at wing against Argentina is better than against Aus/SA though (no disrespect meant to Argentina)

I have to agree, it is playing people out of position again, infe if we didn't have a wing but toeava was first choice end of year tour last year

Hore is on fire too...dont see him on the wing....ok, maybe a bit of a stretch but you see my point

 

[cardassian]

I have to agree, it is playing people out of position again, infe if we didn't have a wing but toeava was first choice end of year tour last year

Hore is on fire too...dont see him on the wing....ok, maybe a bit of a stretch but you see my point

c'mon we had Vito on the wing last week and Aus had Samo so it's not that larger stetch to put Hore there lol personally i think Hore is benched in case Cowan comes on and plays awful again and Hore can slip into halfback

Seriously though Sonny will be grand on the wing.

 

[donmcdazzle]

I'm actually a bit nervous about this game. Although maybe it'll be good for Slade if we fall behind and have to chase the game (providing we win of course). I know the pumas will raise another level of intensity which is good I hope they come out and smash us round a bit and put us under pressure.

 

[james5000]

I have to agree, it is playing people out of position again, infe if we didn't have a wing but toeava was first choice end of year tour last year

Hore is on fire too...dont see him on the wing....ok, maybe a bit of a stretch but you see my point

Sonny Bill has played better than Toeava on the wing in this World Cup, Toeava isn't a natural Wing. Toeava is much better at fullback or even in the midfield.

 

[psychic duck]

Kahui was a centre so why weren't people complaining when he was first put onto the wing?

Toeava and Dagg didn't start out as wing either

is it because it's easy to play wing as an outside centre compared to an inside centre? but then players like Roberts, Umaga and Lima have all played 12 and spent time on the wing

SBW really truely is like Marmite (only people in UK may know what I mean by that)

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Kahui was a centre so why weren't people complaining when he was first put onto the wing?

Toeava and Dagg didn't start out as wing either

is it because it's easy to play wing as an outside centre compared to an inside centre? but then players like Roberts, Umaga and Lima have all played 12 and spent time on the wing

SBW really truely is like Marmite (only people in UK may know what I mean by that)

i guess it is because they have actually proved them selves on the wing, we cant assume all centre's make good wingers and these matches are not the time to prove players

If we have someone who has proved him self on the wing i just dont know why we wouldn't use him

dont get me wrong, im not worried about this match, i think it is a good team...im a bit worried about the coaches thinking...again

 

[james5000]

i guess it is because they have actually proved them selves on the wing, we cant assume all centre's make good wingers and these matches are not the time to prove players

If we have someone who has proved him self on the wing i just dont know why we wouldn't use him

dont get me wrong, im not worried about this match, i think it is a good team...im a bit worried about the coaches thinking...again

Agreed and Agreed.

We have seriously got to stop tinkering with our players positions. I'm slowly becoming a fan of SBW on the wing, but that's if he were play low performing teams - it's the knockout stages and their going to gamble on that?

It's risky business and I hope it doesn't go downhill from there.

Agreed and Agreed.

We have seriously got to stop tinkering with our players positions. I'm slowly becoming a fan of SBW on the wing, but that's if he were play low performing teams - it's the knockout stages and their going to gamble on that?

It's risky business and I hope it doesn't go downhill from there.

Maybe the selectors should have taken a Specialist in the area, ala Gear and just not taken Toeava.

Toeava doesn't rank no2 in any position, he's handy at many position's but he's a master at none.
At least SBW is worthy of being the no2 2nd5.

SBW is a form decision, Toeava hasn't done anything on the wing to guarantee being selected ahead of SBW.
SBW had a great game on the Wing and he's been superb at 2nd5.

*Toeava is still on the Bench any way, but I am certain he wont do anything better than SBW.

Why is Jimmy Cowan on the bench, his form is shocking?

Will they play Slade at wing on defence?

 

[Dizzy]

Why? He's not that bad a defender, and against Argentina?

 

[james5000]

Why? He's not that bad a defender, and against Argentina?

Slade's an excellent defender, very good at defending on the wing. SBW is an excellent defender also and would be better suited defending in the channel.
Could be better if they switched possibly?

Just a thought, SBW might be missed in the counter, but Slade is very good under the high ball and has a good boot too.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Slade's an excellent defender, very good at defending on the wing. SBW is an excellent defender also and would be better suited defending in the channel.
Could be better if they switched possibly?

Just a thought, SBW might be missed in the counter, but Slade is very good under the high ball and has a good boot too.

Not a bad idea actually. Good way to get SBW's more physical defence in close and have Slade tidying up and doing the kicking etc at the back.

 

[Icemn]

wow GH is actually doing what i initially said on having SBW on 11 (only cuz iof the injuries to Kahui en guildford paddaman ) this will be interesting!!!

I think everyone forgot SBW has played on the wing for his club... it is club level yes but its still wing... on this level you just have to step up!!!

i think SBW will be used alot in the midfield!!! he will not staty on the wing... maybe on defence ya.. but not attack!!

imagin nonu and SBW on centre on attack... smith maybe dropping to wing

then on defence...smith will come back on centre with nonu and sbw falling back to wing etc

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Excluding 2003, Argentina has been consistently going above the expectations in RWCs.

I'm on your side, but that phrase is just not true.

1987: Either within expectations or below
1991: Lost all 3 games (Italy included)
1995: Lost all 3 games

In order for your argument to be consistent, we would have had to expect to win 1 game out of nine in 3 world cups.
Facts > opinions.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

[TABLE="class: grid"]
[TR][TD] All Blacks [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] Argentina [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Mils Muliaina [/TD][TD] 15 [/TD][TD] Martin Rodriguez [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Cory Jane [/TD][TD] 14 [/TD][TD] Gonzalo Camacho [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Conrad Smith [/TD][TD] 13 [/TD][TD] Marcelo Bosch [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Ma'a Nonu [/TD][TD] 12 [/TD][TD] Felipe Contepomi (c) [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Sonny Bill Williams [/TD][TD] 11 [/TD][TD] Horacio Agulla [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Colin Slade [/TD][TD] 10 [/TD][TD] Santiago Fernandez [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Piri Weepu [/TD][TD] 9 [/TD][TD] Nicolas Vergallo [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Kieran Read [/TD][TD] 8 [/TD][TD] Leonardo Senatore [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Richie McCaw (c) [/TD][TD] 7 [/TD][TD] Juan Manuel Leguizamon [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Jerome Kaino [/TD][TD] 6 [/TD][TD] Julio Farias Cabello [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Sam Whitelock [/TD][TD] 5 [/TD][TD] Patricio Albacete [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Brad Thorn [/TD][TD] 4 [/TD][TD] Manuel Carizza [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Owen Franks [/TD][TD] 3 [/TD][TD] Juan Figallo [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Keven Mealamu [/TD][TD] 2 [/TD][TD] Mario Ledesma [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Tony Woodcock [/TD][TD] 1 [/TD][TD] Rodrigo Roncero [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][TD] [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Andrew Hore [/TD][TD] 16 [/TD][TD] Agustin Creevy [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Ben Franks [/TD][TD] 17 [/TD][TD] Martin Scelzo [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Ali Williams [/TD][TD] 18 [/TD][TD] Marcos Ayerza [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Victor Vito [/TD][TD] 19 [/TD][TD] Alejandro Campos [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Jimmy Cowan [/TD][TD] 20 [/TD][TD] Alfredo Lalanne [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Aaron Cruden [/TD][TD] 21 [/TD][TD] Lucas Gonzalez Amorosino [/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] Isaia Toeava [/TD][TD] 22 [/TD][TD] Juan Jose Imhoff [/TD][/TR]
[/TABLE]