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Rugby 2012 - Kicking Improvement Suggestions

I know it takes away from realism, but we also have to be realistic in another way. If your playing online and the guy your playing against has scored 2 tries earlier with grubbers that rolled straight forwards or sat-up, and you try to do it just once and it rolls over the side-line for you to lose by 4 points, I'd imagine it wouldn't take long for your controller to end up near or in the television.

I think that the only way they could do inaccuracy with grubbers is if the arrow for the grubber extends quicker and if it goes past it's max it goes from green to red and then you let go it turns into a skewed grubber and may roll one way or the other.

Yeah adding to that, have you ever tried kicking a grubber?

Its actually very easy to get it to go in a straight line. If you nudge it properly, low to the ground and end over end, then 9 times out of 10 it rolls in a straight line anyway. There isnt as much unpredictability in grubbers as people are making out. Its when kicks get some air under them and contact the ground at different angles and trajectories that things start getting complicated.

You have to think about rugby in the real world, why would a player decide not to grubber a ball through?
The things that would make me think twice personally would be that its much harder to pick a ball up off your boot laces than it is to pluck one out of the air, you are more likely to knock a grubber on in the pick up. Also, when grubbering around a man or through a set of defenders, theres always the possibility that the ball will deflect off the defenders legs and go in an unplanned direction.

I think these are the negitives you should be focussing on, not the fear of knocking on the ball mid-kick or the ball magically spurting off sideways.
 
Yeah adding to that, have you ever tried kicking a grubber?

I have done them hundreds of times practising and dozens of times in games. Once again this is nothing to brag about, but I get the feeling you think your talking to someone who's hardly played the game for some reason. Maybe you don't mean it that way. Anyhow, grubbers, chips & drop goals are the only kicks I'm good at in real life. I can't seem to get any more than a 30-35m clearance kicking from inside the 22 and can't place goal that well (might nail one out of 4 attempts).

Yes I do agree that they aren't that hard to get pretty straight, it's just a bit harder to get them to sit up exactly when you want, even then that's not impossible.

As for the negatives that I should be focusing on, well a couple of things. One, I was just responding to a poster earlier who mentioned that he felt grubber kicks should have unpredictable bounces. I needed to remind him of online equivalency. Something your kicking lesson doesn't mention, lol. :)
 
I think that was a general "you." I can see his point, thinking "is a grubber the best option here?" is probably preferable to thinking "the grubber is the best option, but I might not pull it off, so I'll just get tackled."

Heh, looks like my time at SRK during the production of SSFIITHDR and SFIV wasn't a complete waste.
 
I think that was a general "you." I can see his point, thinking "is a grubber the best option here?" is probably preferable to thinking "the grubber is the best option, but I might not pull it off, so I'll just get tackled."

Heh, looks like my time at SRK during the production of SSFIITHDR and SFIV wasn't a complete waste.

I think your probably right. I'm looking at the post now and I see how that's probably how it was meant. So, how come your time at SRK wasn't a waste? Have you had some good news? :)
 
I have done them hundreds of times practising and dozens of times in games. Once again this is nothing to brag about, but I get the feeling you think your talking to someone who's hardly played the game for some reason. Maybe you don't mean it that way. Anyhow, grubbers, chips & drop goals are the only kicks I'm good at in real life. I can't seem to get any more than a 30-35m clearance kicking from inside the 22 and can't place goal that well (might nail one out of 4 attempts).

Yes I do agree that they aren't that hard to get pretty straight, it's just a bit harder to get them to sit up exactly when you want, even then that's not impossible.

As for the negatives that I should be focusing on, well a couple of things. One, I was just responding to a poster earlier who mentioned that he felt grubber kicks should have unpredictable bounces. I needed to remind him of online equivalency. Something your kicking lesson doesn't mention, lol. :)

Ohh haha mate i think you got the whole tone of my post wrong, reading over it now i can see how would take it that way, but that's so not how i meant that post to be read!

When i started with "Adding to that" what i meant by that was that i agreed with your post and i was following it up with further reasons why i don't think that unpredictable bounces are a good idea (as was the gist of your post)

When i said "have you ever.." i wasn't meaning it as a personal challenge of your footballing ability! I'm sure if you are interested enough in the game that you moderate a rugby forum then you must have played the game once or twice ;) I meant it in more of a general sense, sort of a "You know how when you kick a grubber.." type deal.

I also realise that you weren't the one that proposed unpredictable bounces in the first place, thats why i said "its not as unpredictible as people(this is my laziness in not being bothered to check back to see who the exact poster was that raised the issue) seem to think"

When i said "the negitives you should be focussing on, not the fear of knocking on the ball mid-kick or the ball magically spurting off sideways. " that was just a plain mistake. I meant HB. It wasn't you that decided that any kicking animation interrupted by a tackle was a knock on after all :)
 
I think your probably right. I'm looking at the post now and I see how that's probably how it was meant. So, how come your time at SRK wasn't a waste? Have you had some good news? :)
I learnt the teachings of David Sirlin, which has given me a better understanding of competitive gaming.
 
Ohh haha mate i think you got the whole tone of my post wrong, reading over it now i can see how would take it that way, but that's so not how i meant that post to be read!

When i started with "Adding to that" what i meant by that was that i agreed with your post and i was following it up with further reasons why i don't think that unpredictable bounces are a good idea (as was the gist of your post)

When i said "have you ever.." i wasn't meaning it as a personal challenge of your footballing ability! I'm sure if you are interested enough in the game that you moderate a rugby forum then you must have played the game once or twice ;) I meant it in more of a general sense, sort of a "You know how when you kick a grubber.." type deal.

I also realise that you weren't the one that proposed unpredictable bounces in the first place, thats why i said "its not as unpredictible as people(this is my laziness in not being bothered to check back to see who the exact poster was that raised the issue) seem to think"

When i said "the negitives you should be focussing on, not the fear of knocking on the ball mid-kick or the ball magically spurting off sideways. " that was just a plain mistake. I meant HB. It wasn't you that decided that any kicking animation interrupted by a tackle was a knock on after all :)

Being the most ever-present moderator of these Rugby 2012 forums has it's problems from time to time, but sometimes it's simply my reading. It was around 2.00am over here too, so I'll use every excuse I can, haha. Thanks for the response. :)
 
I know it takes away from realism, but we also have to be realistic in another way. If your playing online and the guy your playing against has scored 2 tries earlier with grubbers that rolled straight forwards or sat-up, and you try to do it just once and it rolls over the side-line for you to lose by 4 points, I'd imagine it wouldn't take long for your controller to end up near or in the television.

I think that the only way they could do inaccuracy with grubbers is if the arrow for the grubber extends quicker and if it goes past it's max it goes from green to red and then you let go it turns into a skewed grubber and may roll one way or the other.

Fair enough
I do wish that they make grubbers a little harder to work though and maybe even soccer kicks
But nah ye youre right
some controller somewhere will be broken eventually
 
and grubbers arent as easy to line up if youre spriting or grubbering sideways (as you can in game)
but yeah all points are valid.. guess we'll have to see what hb decides on then
 
No opinions on the concept of using the dynamic bulls-eye system to better emphasise accuracy of kicking for punts?
 
The kick and chase strategy is very popular/successful these days. Think 2009 trinations where the springboks applied it to perfection.

So getting kicks (punts, up-and-unders, grubbers, chip kick, crosskick, drop) right in the game is also very important.

The contesting for a kicked ball should also be looked at. The old system doesnt offer much. Things will get very interesting if theres a big up-and-under (think fourie du preez), with chasers (think habana), and then contesting for the ball against the defensing team (think mils muliaina, joe rocket, sivivatu). It will be so close to 'the real thing' wouldn't it?
 
I thought the drop goal was dramitcally improved in 08.

I'd like to see a chip kick introduced, i don't think this needs a kick indicator, just to be able to be controlled in terms of direction
 
I think the kicking in Rugby League 3 is done very well, when using the Gamecube controller,
You hold A and it goes slowmo, and an arrow appears which looks like the arrow in Rugby 08, then you press the right trigger to punt the ball
When running you can tap Y to do a chip (which is an actual chip, and chips ahead almost exaclty where you'll have run to, if using a good kicker, if not it'll go slightly left or right, and too far or short) or if you hold Y it's a similar system as with the Punt, but a little target apears on the pitch which you control with the analogue stick, and you press right trigger to kick a bomb, or left trigger for a grubber
For a drop kick you hold A and Y and a straight arrow appears, which you then aim at the posts, then right trigger to kick

I think a system like this could work well for 2012, though i don't know how a lot of people would feel about the slowmo kicking, especially in multiplayer (when playing against the computer, their kicks are normal speed)
 
2-3 buttons to execute a kick? No thanks. I wouldn't want slo-mo, either.
 
GENERAL PLAY KICKING Game developers please read!!!

The last couple of rugby games were lacking in the general play kicking department!!!!

Some things i would like to see in this next gen game to improve this are:

1# A chip kick and grubber kick that has two types of ways of doing them.

First way would just be tapping the button which would result in a strait forward kick that travels 10 to 15 meters straight ahead. this should be a very quick process with the ball going straight to the boot even if the player is at full speed
2nd would be holding down the button to execute the kick with angles and make it longer or shorter using the left stick this needs to be done as soon as u finish releasing the button its got to be quick process as the last couple of games it took far to long and you were always getting tackled and knock on before u could execute the kick.

2# a drop goal were u press a button then use the right stick to hold away then towards goal post kind of like tiger woods golf games if its not a straight forward flowing motion towards the post the ball curves to the right or left. Make this a slow motion type deal and i think people will actually like sinking few 3 pointers

3# bombs in the last game i thought were decent the only thing i would change is jumping and contesting the ball in the air even being able to tap the ball backwards to supporting players would be cool

4# the punt was also decent only 2 things i would like to change is being able to press a button while in the ruck scrum or line out which tells my back line that i am going to punt and to be flat (just onside) and be ready to chase the ball.
The other thing is to be able to put an across field kick were the player can contest in the air or run onto the ball when it bounces the ball would have to go higher with less distance the the normal punt but the outside backs would have to be flat (just onside) just like the punt.

5#box kick was perfect in the last game maybe adding in the bomb with a different button would be cool.

6# ball physics the ball is not round and should bounce a if it was if u can make a cool ball bouncing type system it would only add to the whole kicking game.

Dev team hope this helps you guys out i am sure u got some good ideas already and i cant wait to see what do with them.
 
The last couple of rugby games were lacking in the general play kicking department!!!!

Some things i would like to see in this next gen game to improve this are:

1# A chip kick and grubber kick that has two types of ways of doing them.

First way would just be tapping the button which would result in a strait forward kick that travels 10 to 15 meters straight ahead. this should be a very quick process with the ball going straight to the boot even if the player is at full speed
2nd would be holding down the button to execute the kick with angles and make it longer or shorter using the left stick this needs to be done as soon as u finish releasing the button its got to be quick process as the last couple of games it took far to long and you were always getting tackled and knock on before u could execute the kick.

2# a drop goal were u press a button then use the right stick to hold away then towards goal post kind of like tiger woods golf games if its not a straight forward flowing motion towards the post the ball curves to the right or left. Make this a slow motion type deal and i think people will actually like sinking few 3 pointers

3# bombs in the last game i thought were decent the only thing i would change is jumping and contesting the ball in the air even being able to tap the ball backwards to supporting players would be cool

4# the punt was also decent only 2 things i would like to change is being able to press a button while in the ruck scrum or line out which tells my back line that i am going to punt and to be flat (just onside) and be ready to chase the ball.
The other thing is to be able to put an across field kick were the player can contest in the air or run onto the ball when it bounces the ball would have to go higher with less distance the the normal punt but the outside backs would have to be flat (just onside) just like the punt.

5#box kick was perfect in the last game maybe adding in the bomb with a different button would be cool.

6# ball physics the ball is not round and should bounce a if it was if u can make a cool bouncing system it would only add to the whole kicking game.

Dev team hope this helps you guys out i am sure u got some good ideas already and cant wait to see what do with the new engine.
 
In 06 only the really good kickers could kick it 60m or more, in the modern game most players could give it a bit of welly and kick 50 - 60M from hand, but the rubbish kickers should have very little control on which direction it goes

So the suggestion would be let most players be able to kick it decently, but if they go at full power or near full power, it could land in a totally different spot to where it was intended, unless they are good kickers like carter etc
 
Looks good to me, especially using a double-tap to change the kick. Football games used to have arrows for free kicks, but now don't, so perhaps they should be dropped from goal kicking.

Professional goalkickers are expected to score 9/10 times regardless of angle and free kick takers rarely score from tough angles in matches. Taking the red arrow away from goal kicking would drop those odds dramatically.


An accurate chip kick is essential on the offence and grubber kicks need to be quicker.
 
Here is a few of my idea that I sent to Hb studios. They said they liked them.

Punt kicking
Dummy kick, then step, is one thing that definitely needs to be inaugurated in the next installment. Get rid of the visible ball path and replace with a short straight arrow. Have a horizontal power metre below the player that fills quickly by holding X, when you release X a vertical line appears in between the start of the power metre and the point where you stopped powering the kick. Another vertical line moves from the start of the power metre towards the end. You have to press the kick button again as it passes over the middle to determine how accurate the kick is. The less power you give the kick, the slower the line moves towards the accuracy zone. This will all be very quick, like 2 seconds. The kick will go the direction you point, depending on how close you stopped to the accuracy zone. If you fail to press X the second time, the kick will slice off the side of your boot. Have the line land in the middle of the accuracy zone for the lower difficulty levels and have it on the manual kick for elite. You should be able to assign a player who isn't the flyhalf as a long field punter (different from the long punter who you select to kick from penalties), and there should be a button to get him to move into first receiver ala Chris Latham smashing it down field from a George Gregan pass.

Drop goals
The drop goals are okay they just need to be a bit slower, have further distance, and the camera angle should cut to behind the player until the ball has landed then go back to the camera angle that was being used. A new way of doing drop goals would be to include the bounce of the ball and timing of the strike, the lateral accuracy should be aimed at the posts at full power, the better the player's kicking rating is, the thinner their arrow is and further distance they will be able to kick the ball. When you initiate the drop kick, an enlarged diagram of the ball appears to the right or left of the player (depending on the player's kicking foot) around their waist. Near the bottom of the ball is a mark which is the sweet spot. There is a line at the players feet that represents the ground, and a bit further up from the ground line is another line which is the ideal striking height. You hold circle and the ball diagram drops towards the ground line, bounces, then as the sweet spot passes up through the ideal striking height, you release circle, the diagram disappears and the player then does the drop kick, or it could all be done at the same time, what ever works best. Releasing circle too early results in the ball staying low, too late makes the ball go high and sliced/hooked off to the side.

Up and unders
Need some work, get rid of the ball path and replace with a short straight arrow which can be moved laterally alot easier than the big long one and it will make the landing point a bit more unpredictable which is a good thing because no one can pin point a bomb. Tapping square once should do a small chip kick, tapping square twice does a medium high ball for you to chase, and tapping square three times does a huge torpedo bomb that can be used as an attacking kick in the opponents 22, when you do a torpedo bomb the landing marker should move around on the ground in the approximate landing area because they can be unpredictable at times. Now for jumping and contesting the ball in the air, this isn't my idea but i think it is one that will make for awesome user control and satisfaction. You put the bomb up as usual - by pressing square, but instead of having a little marker aiming at the exact point of where you want to kick it, it has a large circle, with a much smaller circle in the middle of it. The Large circle indicates the area the ball WILL land in, however, the smaller circle indicates where exactly your aiming the ball to land. Obviously, the better your kicking stats, the closer the ball will be to the small middle circle. Now, to have any participation in contesting the bomb, you must be in the large circle. This brings me to the contesting part, to attempt to jump and catch the ball, you keep tapping triangle when in the circle and the ball is in the air, the better your player's handling and jumping attributes are, the higher you shall jump and more likely you shall catch it. Being closer to the smaller circle will give you a better shot at catching it off a good kicker. This idea brings height into a factor as the taller you are, the less you have to tap triangle to jump to max height. However, in addition to this, by holding triangle, instead of contesting for the catch, the player jumps, takes a swipe and tries to bat the ball back to team mates, this would be good for short kick-offs.

Grubbers
Should bounce and change direction depending on the angle the ball was kicked on (holding L1 whilst powering a grubber will make the kick turn left as it bounces along the ground by the kicker changing the angle of the ball so it is pointing right (for those of you who are unfamiliar with the rugby ball, kicking the point into the ground will make the ball bounce the opposite direction), R1 makes it turn right). Grubbers need to be executed quicker and when tackled by a player whilst powering a grubber, you should pull the ball back in and go down, or snap at the ball with your foot resulting in an inaccurate grubber and unpredictable power, sometimes the ball can go way down field, and sometimes it can go five meters.

Soccer kick
Needs the distance to be determined by length of time you hold the button down for e.g hold it down for two seconds, the ball gets air and goes thirty meters, tap it and the ball goes ten meters rolling along the ground. They should bounce like grubbers.


Scrum half kicking
The chase needs to be more enthusiastic from scrum half kicks. There should be more kicking options for the scrum half from rucks and scrums, like a high bomb or a pick up and grubber. Kicking from the ruck needs to be quicker, more of a snap than a power up and kick.

Kick offs
Firstly get rid of the blue path of the ball and replace it with a short straight arrow to make the landing point of the ball to be determined by the height & direction you point the arrow, and the player's power & accuracy. Players jumping for the ball need surrounding forwards to lift them and form a maul. Get rid of that stupid uncontrollable mid air tackle when you go for a short high kick off. Split kick offs (forwards and backs spread across field). You should be able to lock the direction you are looking and aim the other way to catch players off guard. Low powerful kickoffs.
 
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