Rugby 2012 - Attack Improvement Suggestions

[Hamez]

Mate you're surprised? everyone i know that plays the game bar NOONE plays end on mode.
We have had a number of tournaments back in Taranaki with about 30 people and end-on was the only mode used. Again at Massey in palmerston north last year we had a long-running rugby 08 knockout tournament out of people in the halls of residence, about 70 people played and they were all end-on.

I just always assumed based on my experiences that that was the way everyone played the game, its quite sobering to see that only 4 fewer people play side-on. I see your point now Iverson

Bit weird hey, maybe its to do with how people played jonah in the first place? I dont know. But as long as both modes are in which I would be 100% certain they will be in thats all that matters. and they really shouldnt waste resources on other veiws. Even if it for replays they could just make a free camera.

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

Well I certainly think end-on is more popular than I thought it was going to be. I thought it would be end-on about 4-5 less than side-on. So, it's a surprise for us all.

 

[Gay-Guy]

Love this idea.. my big problem with the set piece plays was that there was no real control over them, that and the players always performed the moves at a light jog.

This is the way Rugby 2012 should move to, the flyhalf really conducting play. For each set play every player would have a set route that they run, The first five would decide who to pass to by choosing to pop pass (tap L1 or R1), throw a normal pass (R1 or L1) or Throw a skip pass (Hold R1 or L1 for a while) depending on where the holes are and where his runners are headed.

The plays wouldn't be set-in-stone like in previous games, the players running different lines and angles would merely be giving the flyhalf options. You could have 4 set plays mapped to your dpad that you could call during rucks, and have a menu of options at lineout and scrum screens..

I agree...players run their set lines....first five is free to run where ever and to pass to whoever. The only time players become free agents and can run anywhere is when they catch the ball.

There would be a lot of practice happening as people would create their own special moves using their imagination and trying to time things perfectly.

Taking things even further if people were allowed to customise the set runs...well...now we are talking some big time rugby stuff.

 

[Bokbe4k]

Well I certainly think end-on is more popular than I thought it was going to be. I thought it would be end-on about 4-5 less than side-on. So, it's a surprise for us all.

I also prefer end-on but when playing with friends(off-line) side-on is the better option.

 

[best_fullback]

My Pictorial Explanation of How I Think Back Play Could Be Improved

As I stated in the opening post to this thread I think there should be a lot more emphasis on the two pivots in attack:

• The Scrum Half
• The Fly Half

Having played in the latter position myself I know that it is a position where you command the team, and where everything happens. You choose the moves, you execute them, and you live or die by your decisions (not literally of course!).

Anyway so these are my ideas for how I think it could be improved.

1. Full control of the Fly half while the ruck is being contested as to the next play.

In the previous ***les you had the d-pad which gave the options for various moves in attack, one of which was always the deep kick formation. My idea is that instead of having to choose a specific play for how you wish to attack, you should control the fly half as the whole attacking formation. Maybe fig.1 will help further explain:


fig.1

In the first picture the fly half is stood in a normal attacking position ready to recieve the ball for the next play. However by moving him around you can change the point of attack and the supporting backs will follow accordingly. In the second picture it shows how if you move deep the supporting backs will assume the formation for a kick and line up flat ready to chase.

This therefore opens up the possibilities with more skilled and less skilled teams as Dan Carter would need less space to kick whereas a less skilled fly half may need to sit deeper to ensure a better kick.

2. Attacking Tactics and Mentality

In the latest Fifa (and yes, I know I bang on about it, but it genuinely is a class game) in attack there is a slider you can adjust to change the attacking mentality of your players. It varies from Ultra Defensive - Defensive - Balanced - Offensive - Ultra Offensive. This means if you are chasing a game by setting ultra offensive your players will make more runs and more players will be thrown up the pitch. Likewise ultra defensive will camp your players infront of your goal.

This is another idea that I think could definitely be executed in Rugby 2012 for attack as shown in fig.2:


fig.2

As the fly half you can set how deep/flat you would like your backs to be. Got a fly half with a bullet of a pass? Set the attackers flatter and exploit it so your recievers get the ball right on the gain line. Got a 12 who is a beast? Set the attacking line deeper and give him the ball with space so he can build up as much momentum as possible to hit into the defensive line.

3. More/better control over the scrum half

In the previous ***le the scrum half was a pretty boring position because all he really did was pass, as the run function was badly implemented meaning you got smashed every time. It didn't matter if you had Du Preez or Matt Dunning as they essentially only did one thing - pass.


fig.3

Fig.3 shows pretty much the same controls on the last game but instead of a face button I thought it would be better to have a shoulder button to do the snipe. The major gripe I had with previous ***les was that the snipe animation took you straight into the defensive line no matter what. I would prefer if when you picked the ball up you had the choice of what to do - you could run across the defensive line and feed a runner, snipe through a gap or pass to the 10. Many SH do take a little run before they feed the backs to suck in fringe defenders.

For this to work there needs to be a much sharper, quicker animation for the SH picking up the ball to give the player the needed time to make these decisions. This would then actually seperate the quick-off-the-base Du Preez from the slower SH.

4. Involve the forwards more!

I know everyone is crying out for this as it has been quite neglected in the previous ***les. Although you do have the option to feed single forward right on the fringe there were no other options apart from that. I say: keep the single forward fringe player but also add this:


fig.4

Its a common sight in modern rugby - the forward pod. By utilising this you can set up a forward oriented ruck or maul which, as there are multiple forwards already there, you have a high chance of winning. Teams use this to ensure another clean phase of possession in another area of the pitch. Maybe to set up a set play or to gain better position for a kick. I believe this would a great new dimension to the forward 'game' and allow many players to have different styles of play to suit their team. An added advantage is that it can be an area to actually include deliberate mauls as they were absent from the last game - an extra platform to form an attack.

5. Give the fly half freedom in set plays

When a set play was initiated in the previous ***les you were just taken along with the current on a semi-jogging, half assed set play - half of which were completely useless. I really believe that there should be 100% control given to the fly half. I know having played there, as im sure many others will have too, that when you call a play it doesn't always go the way you planned. The pass may be slower from the scrum half than you expected, the defence may be set up differently or more agressive or your backs may not be set up.

This means you have to read the play on the fly. The set plays should all there as in previous games but you should be able to choose what to do as the fly half:



Here we have a simple 'dummy switch - pass'. The outside centre should recieve the ball and crash up into the defence. If you're playing as the fly half and you want to do the play as it is you should have to recieve the ball with the 10 and run the angle across the dummy runner and then pop to the 13.

However, if you plan to do the move and see the opposition charging up on the 13 why shouldn't you be able to instead switch with the 12 and change the direction of the attack? Or why shouldn't you be able to run through a gap if you see it with the fly half? Playing that position is all about decisions! Decisions, decisions, decisions. You make the right one and score a brilliant try to outwit the defence - what a feeling that would be! Just imagine how much extra depth this would give to the game.

 

[Duckdee]

Good post again, Best. Seems reasonably doable.

 

[ranger]

That is very well done best_fullback i couldnt agree more.
Maybe if there was an option to involve loose forwards in back moves sometimes. During my time playing flanker i spent alot of time running off the inside shoulder of the flyhalf or 2nd five, especially if the flyhalf was a inexperienced.
It gives the flyhalf an instant bailout option if the defence comes up too quickly or he gets poor ball from the scrumhalf, it also draws a couple players on the dummy cut every time and gives the backs more space to work with.

 

[best_fullback]

That is very well done best_fullback i couldnt agree more.
Maybe if there was an option to involve loose forwards in back moves sometimes. During my time playing flanker i spent alot of time running off the inside shoulder of the flyhalf or 2nd five, especially if the flyhalf was a inexperienced.
It gives the flyhalf an instant bailout option if the defence comes up too quickly or he gets poor ball from the scrumhalf, it also draws a couple players on the dummy cut every time and gives the backs more space to work with.

Yeah definitely. In the modern game the roles of forwards and backs has been blurred more than it was in the past. It isn't a rare sight to have a flanker such as Spies flying up in the midfield. In my last picture you can see players lingering around behind the back line. You could have these as spare forwards who automatically make inside or outside runs off of 10, 12 or inbetween 12 and 13.

Again this is another options that could be customised depending upon your team. If you prefer players switching or hitting outside/inside channels then there could be the possibilities of sliders in the team set up. This could really make a unique difference when playing against each human opposition you encounter as to how you set up your defence for their style of attack.

 

[terra21]

Best fullback ever Christian cullen in his prime fullstop!!!!

 

[best_fullback]

Best fullback ever Christian cullen in his prime fullstop!!!!

Hmm yeah i'd probably agree. BTW my name isn't meant to be me saying im the 'best fullback'. I don't actually play there myself, I have done in the past but its more of an ironic name as its the worst position I play in out of the whole backline!

 

[StevoIRL]

Anyone who has played the Rugby League Series of games on whatever gaming rig would know that its near impossible to play with the side view, the thing that made it probably the only angle worth using in Rugby 06/08 etc was that the pitch is extremely small its simply not wide enough. That and the camera angle you were given facing the opposition line was pretty horrible. One of the reasons why

Honestly i don't think after playing RL that you can use the side angle unless its tilted to some degree so you can see the full width of the pitch at all times.

Scale wise it's interesting to see the difference in the size of the player models used in RL compared to Rugby, they for me are far better then the ant like player models we'v been using and it actually feels like a game of rugby.

Compare these two videos of attacking play in RL3 and Rugby 08
(RL 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2PNryCi2Xk)
(Rugby 08 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq59GNeNI3Q)

First thing you ll notice is that the RL3 NPC defence doesn't decide to run around in circles anytime a phase is completed, gaps occur naturally which is what people want to see. Take for example 2.14 on 08 video you see a gap the size of the red see between the 10 channel to the winger you just never see that in real rugby it's farsical a player will always move infield.

Speaking of wingers you ll also notice that wingers in 08 refuse to actually go on the wing but hang instead 10 meters inside unless a ruck is formed close to the touch line, wingers should stay far out on the wing when attacking otherwise we get situations where the entire backline is lined up over 10 meters and your only halfway across the pitch when the winger gets the ball.

Another thing that was mentioned by the OP was scale specifically speed, honestly this will make or break this new game in how the attacking mechanism works. 06/08 are far too fast it's played at frantic pace like every player has been injected with speed there's no sense of a slow player compared to a fast player (excluding star players here and even they are even caught a lot of the time by realistically slow players but in game they manage to cover a lot of ground) if the speed of players is brought to scale it means the player gets more time with a player with the ball which means he can create more then usual hot potatoe tactic. When i make a break by a a really fast winger with no full back at home i want to see that sense of speed by leaving the defenders in my dust, not in a giant stampeding line thats hot on my heels.

 

[Celestial Panda]

Hey there. I just posted this in the suggestions thread, but thought it might fit in here as well:

I thought of another one; running.
It's a little odd if you're running forwards, and then pull back on the analog stick, that your player seems to insta-turn, not losing momentum (or falling over, because it's damn near impossible to stop after sprinting, let alone change direction). That's kind of odd, and I can't see why any player would do it.

What might work, is if you're running full-pelt up the pitch and then pull back on the analog stick then your player attempts to turn his back into the opposing player (trying to start a maul). A maul would only be started if your players got there quick enough (so a high balance stat for the tackled player + speed/ stamina on the forwards is needed), and the chance of a turnover would be lower if you did manage to turn your back, otherwise it might be higher.

Just a thought that came to me about now. Sorry for the gratuitous use of brackets!

 

[Tomsey]

Main problems for me in attack are support play and angles. When a back takes the ball to the line he should have options either side, not just on the outside. Also backs should run into space if that means coming back in on an angle or going over it should happen. Having a inside runner who just runs into the cover defence is useless. Also the simple two-on-one is very difficult in Rugby08 because the player without the ball doesn't run the right line. When the player with the ball drifts into the defender to draw him in the the support runner drifts too, into the next defender. Its extremely counter intuitive and very frustrating​

 

[lukeyhym]

Please note my defensive suggestions are included as they compliment the attacking suggestions accordingly, that's why they're included:

Counter rucking: there has to be room for this, opportunistic counter rucking on slow ball is a crucial part of the game and being able to steal in the tackle is a feature that is so prominent in the real game, but has never been able to be explored/pulled off properly in a video game.

BALL PLAY-kick/pass variation: we want a smorgasboard of passing and kicking options/animations, chip kicks from general play, box kicks, up and unders, droppies, grubbas, can all be improved and things like flick passes, mid palm-off flicks with a left or right option, popping off the ground in a tackle, #8 pop to halfback at the scrum, inside balls on the fly that don't go to noone

Improved positional AI: Players in different positions need to know what they're doing off the ball, like covering for the fullback and forwards giving running options to the backs to suck in defenders in the line, more intuitive forward running off the ruck and the backs, chasing high balls, spreading in defence when not part of the ruck, not bunching, diving on loose ball, looking for switches and inside balls which you can connect with through simple passing controls (too early goes behind, too late goes forward-players running lines could have a good pass indicator above their head that starts orange then goes green then red, indicating the best time to take that option, this would allow for free-flowing running options and makes the fly half more important)

Improved Breakdowns, Set pieces & tackles: In 06and 08 we had the problem of being punished for good play, with ridiculous turnovers at crucial/unrealistic times. When you make a break, the momentum shift should be evident, and you should, more than likely win the ensuing ruck when tackled, as your team in going forwards and defenders have to retire from behind the gate. It should also be evident in defence when you make a dominant tackle that it's easier to steal the ball and/or counter the ruck (maybe if you make a dominant tackle you have 3 secs or so to compete for the ball by clicking the R3 button as fast as you can, do it for too long you get pinged by the ref (warning sign needed) or don't do it at all and just reset your Defence). you should have the option to pop off the ground in attack if your player is going forward with momentum into the tackle.

You should be able to have a bit more control in the maul, i.e. direction, players shaving off and gaining momentum etc. must be room for error though as if it's too dominant it gets stupid and boring. Lineouts could be a bit more varied, particulalry when challenging in defence and the ability to use short lineouts to create forward running options in midfield to stretch the defence and scrums could have more competitive control, too.

Improved defensive options: It would be awesome to include an on-the-fly defensive option system, whereby you could choose to, for example, to inflict a brutal rush defense when opposition ball is slow, to compliment this, you should be able to pull players out of the ruck if the ball is lost, to make defense more involved, more important and require more thought, if you include the ability to counter ruck, players will have to balance the opportunities that presents with the risks that it opens up outside the ruck if the ball gets cleared by the opposition quickly and vice versa (i.e. forward dominance and go forward via pick and go's and short balls, if you thin the defence out too much)-to counter this, refer to my points on more varied ball play....chipping options etc nullify rush defence etc etc etc.,

Tackling needs to be more varied, big hits were maybe a bit too easy to pull off in previous games, and in attack you could easily doa bit of crazy running to avoid tackles alltogether....half tackles, ankle taps, big hits, dead heats and non dominant tackles create and prevent opportunites being created, by making the physics in the tackling more realistic, and the AI of defending players more willing to attempt tackles from wherever they are, we'll see much more varied gameply, with half breaks and pop/flick passes and quick ruck ball etc playing a major part in developing the flow of gameplay...it would help to create a less one-dimensional playing environment, and reduce the temptation to take advantage of AI failings and glitches.

Player Abilities: we should be able to notice significant attributes in certain prominent international stars.....Frans Steyn's Missile Launching boot, Juan De Jongh's incredible stepping skills, Richie McCaw's and Heinrich Brussouw's knack for stealing ball, Bakkies Botha's MASSIVE hits in general play and at the breakdown, Victor Matfield's Lineout dominance, Bryan O'Driscoll's ability to turn a game on its head from nowhere with ridiculous skill, agility and pace, Bryan Habana and Jean De Villiers Intercepting ability, Matt Giteau's slipperiness through the tackle and ability to get the ball to his supporting player in seemingly impossible circumstances, Quade Cooper's flair and defence drawing ability and array of passing and kicking types and skills, Rocky Elsom's Tackle busting and tackling, Schalk Burger's ridiculous energy levels and tackle effectiveness and tackle count and ball running, Morne Steyn, Jonny wilkinson, Dan Carter and yes, EVEN Chris Paterson's awesome kicking abilities, Ma'a Nonu's Takle busting and defence drawing and explosive acceleration!!! The list could go on forever, but it's mostly important in those KEY STARS in each team, REAL game breaking abilities that you can hone in on as you're playing the game to give your team the edge, these things need to be important, noticable and effective, so that you have to be both wary of them in defence and reliant on them in attack to a degree to balance it out and create opportunites either way.

situational EG: I'm talking slow ball for ireland, the Boks (on the fly of course) employ a solid rush defence, because they know (or can sense) that the ball is going to BOD, BOD get's hammered in midfield, tries the pop, loose ball, Frans Steyn picks up with one hand, bumps the first man, then half bumps the next but his leg gets caught, pops the pass out the back of his hand to a flying jacque fourie who draws the fullback and slings it to Bryan habana for an awesome counter attacking try!! this is how we want to play our next rugby game, decisions and tactics affecting what happens on the field, big hits, crazy skills and key men affecting the run of play, lots of pace and power and a completely engrossing experience in both attack and defence, having to think and make decisions based on you position on the field and how fast the ball is being recycled and how dominant the tackle is

 

[nate1691]

i think every one is on the right track here

needs to go down more of the madden track and not have the set move where you press a button and get taken for the ride but isted having to run the lines and time the passes of the set move chosen makes sum verry simple set peices to suck forwards and have more complicated ones to get some points on the board

also i think the trick stick needs to have more debth and be tied closser to the players atributes and maby each player have an idvidual move that only this individual can do e.g rokakokoe spin. as for the trick stick it needs more debth, i think these should be incorperated... goose step (definatly) a quick berst of pace to make some room, right and left quick step to make some room for yourself, a large step maby where you change directions a few times or then select the direction you want to go to leave your defender going in the wronge direction (not stuck in the mud like the old one) but make each player do this deferently as each player dosent step the same and a forward cant step like a back, a fend drop the shoulder maby with a power bar and you have to get the power right for it to have the best effect and this would work better for forwards or big backs.then once you have settled on the moves make some combos e.g goose step big step fend off loead to break the game open i think using the right analog stick to do this would be the best way and do it like fifia or madden has done thers.

passing

i would like to see you have more options on your inside e.g. fullback cumming on your inside players peeling off on your inside and maby a quick raparound call, also mabe a power bar on your passes to judge your skip passes insted of just holding it down to skip
baisically more controll is what we are after

i think a basic controll set up option would be needed for 1st time players and peole that dont understand the game

let me know wat you think

 

[kennmr]

**** yeah, the idea of moves on the fly is perfect R3 button to call a switch perhaps, or a loop? could be the makings of a revoloutionary game here fellas

 

[Muzzy]

definitely the ability to give an inside pass in General Play, maybe while you're running in general play an option will come up to press a button to call the player next to you to run an inside line and then press R2 or something to give the inside pass.

also more set moves for the line outs, i remember Rugby 2004 had so many set plays from the line outs but then they got rid of them

 

[lemoncowboy]

i think a really interesting feature could be to make your own set plays. there are no orginal set plays on any rugby games but i could whip up a few that could tear the all blacks up with a bit of pace and a nice inside ball here and there.
which brings me onto my next suggestion... the inside ball - can it be designed that if the ball goes from 9 to 10 and lets say for arguments sake you have a 7 running at full pace straight at your 10 (which in rugby 08 was the easiest way to kill an attack - smash the 10 as soon as he gets it) could you not have a back row forward on the inside shoulder to smash it up / go through the gap?

 

[dan the man]

Well I certainly think end-on is more popular than I thought it was going to be. I thought it would be end-on about 4-5 less than side-on. So, it's a surprise for us all.

Yeah i'm shocked!!! i actually play side-on and i've never met any one who plays end-on... and that applies to Rugby and Fifa games, each to there own though. but i would be very surprised/disappointed if they only had one view in Rugby 2012

 

[judsonlaming]

y not have set attack like they did with defence: eg tight, wide, kick, standard, and have the computer attack with players in different ways depending on ur setting: eg if set to kick the wings will chase your kicks, tight forwards wont join rucks as much and set for short passes, wide backs will spread and not go into rucks, and standard a balance of all the other settings.