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Road to Lions 2017

Seen them all just not cursed with one eye

So apart from Clermont home game which was he poor? In the return game in Clermont most Clermont players and fans said he was best player on field despite on loosing team. He was excellent vs Sarries and Sale so just wondering in a season where he's getting plaudits for his best form in years from everyone where he's lacking in your view?

And I'm not being biased asking as all these plaudits come from France, UK and Leinster too.
 
Well Cmac mentioned Gatland living off controversy (not exactly sure how that would help in an actual international rugby game). Ironically the controversy was all blown up by the petulant angry lions 'fans' who almost ruined the entire tour with their blatant fan boy sentiments for Brian and their disappointment at Gatland picking a team made up primarily of Welshman (just read the lions threads and abuse Gatland received personally). This is why I mention it. People do care still and i've seen so much hate for Gatland since because of it. It's actually difficult not to follow their path and start disliking O'Driscoll myself as a result of it.

The rest of your post i'd pretty much agree with. I don't think Gatland will be the man to win the series, but only time will tell. But based on his admittedly predictable style alone, it's the last thing you want to take to NZ.

Can you explain for me though what your point is when you say that Davies played so badly in the first two tests but ignore the fact that when O'Driscoll was in that position, he arguably cost us the second game? Although you say that whoever was i the 13 jersey didn't make the slightest bit of difference in the 3rd test, i would argue that Davies had a very solid game particularly in defense and with his left boot. This is something O'Driscoll was severely lacking in the second test and cost us badly along with losing Warburton. He defended horribly and his kicking was absolutely shocking. Just because a player is not notably game changing in a good or bad way, does not mean they made no difference. Davies was clearly the right choice, and one the team backed as well as most impartial experts (minus Keith Wood, obviously).

I mean you point out that he has his 'favorite' players, but skip the part where since our poor showing at the 6 Nations last year he dropped Phillips and Lydiate's return to form. If the main point is to win tournaments etc, then why would he not have faith in the players who have brought him that success in the recent past? When they are clearly not performing, he either drops them, or perseveres because we simply do not have another outstanding candidate at that time. I agree Phillips may not be the choice if the Lions were to play the All Blacks next week, but then, he isn't even in the Wales 9 shirt now. Same goes for players who he has persisted with like Priestland who although was excellent in 2011/12, should have been dropped much sooner. We forget though, that Biggar was first choice when fit since 2013 so the view that Gatland will select players regardless of their poor form is pretty ill though out and outright untrue. Just look at the other Coaches, they also have some horrible tendencies to pick poor performing players (not going to name any, but will do if asked to).



Well, parts were related to what you wrote (note the part which states that it was a stupid comment). The rest was more of a general comment not a direct response to your one line of drivel. How about you actually attempt to counter with a logical response instead of a cop out 'daz not whut I sed doh'

I'll also point out that all the coaches have pretty awful records against NZ in recent years (don't bring up 2012, that was an England side at their very best (haven't matched it) against, shall we say, a 'poor(ly)' All blacks side. If it is all about records then does Gatland not have the upper hand for actually succeeding in a tournament (or three or four)? And also beating SA unlike Lancaster has and England since 2006? The fact is that the only real candidate at the moment is Schmidt. But even so, all the Lions nations are living in glass houses and have had little to no real success against any of the SANZAR teams. Don't act like it's just Wales.
Just on end. Ireland beat SA and Aus and came 90 seconds from beating All Blacks in last 13 months. And beat Argentina in Summer (admittedly both were under strength.) I'd consider that a success wouldn't you?
 
I hope gatlands the coach and he stacks the team full of Welshmen.

And HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!TRF!!
 
Just on end. Ireland beat SA and Aus and came 90 seconds from beating All Blacks in last 13 months. And beat Argentina in Summer (admittedly both were under strength.) I'd consider that a success wouldn't you?

you'll notice that i said Schmidt is the only real candidate. This is because he is the only coach to have led a side to any sustained (yet limited) success against SANZAR teams. So yeah, i'd consider it a success so far, but beating two (top,) SANZAR teams does not make Ireland a world beating team. They were under strength (as you say), but it bodes well for sure. Far better than England or Wales atm, but form is fickle. We'll see how everyone matches up against each other come February. But still, the fact Ireland, England, Wales and Scotland have all been unable to defeat the All Blacks in recent years and often losing right at the depth after leading for significant periods is worrying. Against the All Blacks i'd personally say that at the moment, a mixture of the best players from each nation (will be much more mixed than 2013) with the Irish philosophy as the predominant approach will be our best bet. This will all change possibly of course.
 
O'Driscoll defended horribly it's true, remember that stat that made a mockery of the man. What was it? 19 or 29 tackles in two games with none missed? But I digress for it wasn't me who brought up the almighty but the overly defensive Welshman who opened this discussion and I really have little to say apart from thattackleDaviessrslylikehowdidyoumisstgatm9??? BOD wasn't the controversy I was alluding to in this case, I don't regard a coach picking a winning team against abysmal opposition as controversial at all, what I was pointing out is Gatland's habit to say some seriously ****ing stupid things in the lead up to games and the last thing a team who the All Blacks enjoy embarrassing every 12 years need is a coach to supply NZ with more reason to beat this marketing orgasm in red because a coach goes and runs his mouth.

Andloikethereasontheydidntwintest2wastotesbecausePOCwasinjuredklolbye
 
I obviously celebrated the Lions beating the Aussies, but I wouldn't have called Gatland a success on that tour. The collective might of four nations should have whitewashed Australia, 3-0. (No disrespect meant to Australia in this. I still think that Australia are better than any individual Home Nation team.) With the resources Gatland had, the tour victory he delivered was pretty much the minimal expectation.

Also, I don't think BO'D being dropped had anything to do with the final game going the way it did. It isn't as if Jonathan Davies played extremely well in that final test. It's just that the Australian pack got bullied in the final test and it didn't in the first two.
 
O'Driscoll defended horribly it's true, remember that stat that made a mockery of the man. What was it? 19 or 29 tackles in two games with none missed? But I digress for it wasn't me who brought up the almighty but the overly defensive Welshman who opened this discussion and I really have little to say apart from thattackleDaviessrslylikehowdidyoumisstgatm9??? BOD wasn't the controversy I was alluding to in this case, I don't regard a coach picking a winning team against abysmal opposition as controversial at all, what I was pointing out is Gatland's habit to say some seriously ****ing stupid things in the lead up to games and the last thing a team who the All Blacks enjoy embarrassing every 12 years need is a coach to supply NZ with more reason to beat this marketing orgasm in red because a coach goes and runs his mouth.

Andloikethereasontheydidntwintest2wastotesbecausePOCwasinjuredklolbye

I've said this so many times and i say it again - Show me some proof. For years people have misquoted Gatland because they simply don't like him yet never provide examples of him 'running his mouth off and just state that 'he said he was going to win' when all he really says is that he is aiming to win, and believes Wales have a good shot, the same as every coach. It's ironic because you're the one running your mouth off right here.

I obviously celebrated the Lions beating the Aussies, but I wouldn't have called Gatland a success on that tour. The collective might of four nations should have whitewashed Australia, 3-0. (No disrespect meant to Australia in this. I still think that Australia are better than any individual Home Nation team.) With the resources Gatland had, the tour victory he delivered was pretty much the minimal expectation.

Also, I don't think BO'D being dropped had anything to do with the final game going the way it did. It isn't as if Jonathan Davies played extremely well in that final test. It's just that the Australian pack got bullied in the final test and it didn't in the first two.

Nothing like ending a debate by just diminishing the achievement of winning a lions series. It's also handy to just say without any substance that BOD being dropped had nothing to do with the final game's result. My point being that we will never know whether BOD would have played well, what we DO know is that BOD was terrible in the previous game, had to be dropped, Davies brought in, performed in all the sectors which BOd could not, and the Lions won. Thus making all the abuse and hugely biased criticism of Gatland imbecilic and unfounded.
 
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I've said this so many times and i say it again - Show me some proof. For years people have misquoted Gatland because they simply don't like him yet never provide examples of him 'running his mouth off and just state that 'he said he was going to win' when all he really says is that he is aiming to win, and believes Wales have a good shot, the same as every coach. I'm not going to bother reading the your posts in future as your type like a 9 year old!

Last one I remember is him saying that the Welsh hated the Irish the most and I haven't really listened to him since, it's not really worth my time but we usually get a story a year from Mr. Gats saying something stupid, intentional or not there isn't another coach in rugby who attracts the same attention.

As as for my "type like a nine year old" (sweet irony) I give what I get, you came looking for a BOD debate where there needn't have been one so I trolled and I'd expect the exact same in reverse. I am also done with this thread and must plead guilty to being accessory to its murder but I played such a minuscule role I would plead with my peers to have mercy!
 
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Last one I remember is him saying that the Welsh hated the Irish the most and I haven't really listened to him since, it's not really worth my time but we usually get a story a year from Mr. Gats saying something stupid, intentional or not there isn't another coach in rugby who attracts the same attention.

As as for being "type like a nine year old" (sweet irony) I give what I get, you came looking for a BOD debate where there needn't have been one so I trolled and I'd expect the exact same in reverse. I am also done with this thread and must plead guilty to being accessory to its murder but I played such a minuscule role I would plead with my peers to have mercy!

Yes, Warren Gatland said 'the Welsh hate the Irish the most' of course he did.
 
Last one I remember is him saying that the Welsh hated the Irish the most and I haven't really listened to him since, it's not really worth my time but we usually get a story a year from Mr. Gats saying something stupid, intentional or not there isn't another coach in rugby who attracts the same attention.

As as for being "type like a nine year old" (sweet irony) I give what I get, you came looking for a BOD debate where there needn't have been one so I trolled and I'd expect the exact same in reverse. I am also done with this thread and must plead guilty to being accessory to its murder but I played such a minuscule role I would plead with my peers to have mercy!

Hate and dislike mean two different things.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/7949738.stm

Taken out of context I feel above. Lot of media spin what Gatland says, unfairly at times. But sometimes fairly. How people read into them is what matters. Reading certain newspapers I could cry wolf about what is printed but choose not to because I know the newspaper's is being biased. No point kicking up a fuss when the job of that article is to rattle people. He took a gamble in that last test for the Lions, he went to the men he trusted and got them over the line. Rightfully or wrongfully. He made the decision and got the Lions over that line. A series win is a series win, no matter how poor the opponents are. I still don't agree dropping BOD from the 23 either. I still find it difficult to accept when people say the tour was not a success, or being childish saying the opposition were rubbish. Sorry fellas (and lasses) you win against what is in front of you. Rumours are rumours and as someone mentioned earlier about squad cohesiveness or whatever, I have heard a few different stories to back up other things. That I will not pry into because they are rumours.

As I said earlier Gatland won't be the coach, there are others there who will do the job. Will they be as successful? To be seen. I hope that we get another series victory and this petty squabbling nonsense stops.
 
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you'll notice that i said Schmidt is the only real candidate. This is because he is the only coach to have led a side to any sustained (yet limited) success against SANZAR teams. So yeah, i'd consider it a success so far, but beating two (top,) SANZAR teams does not make Ireland a world beating team. They were under strength (as you say), but it bodes well for sure. Far better than England or Wales atm, but form is fickle. We'll see how everyone matches up against each other come February. But still, the fact Ireland, England, Wales and Scotland have all been unable to defeat the All Blacks in recent years and often losing right at the depth after leading for significant periods is worrying. Against the All Blacks i'd personally say that at the moment, a mixture of the best players from each nation (will be much more mixed than 2013) with the Irish philosophy as the predominant approach will be our best bet. This will all change possibly of course.

Regards Gatland he did get quoted saying the Welsh hated Irish most and being honest he was trying to play mind games in prematch media but it has stuck. Maybe he didn't mean it in a certain context but it stuck and those little things leave blemishes.

Regards above. I certainly agree Ireland are no world beaters and no team is outside All Blacks. Not many have beat All Blacks in recent years but I'd put that down to us seeing the greatest era of a team to ever play this game. I'd put that team 08/09 on to now the best team to ever play the game. But that era is coming to an end. The gap is closing massively.
 
Woahooo my encore... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...ics-rile-Irish-ahead-Six-Nations-decider.html apologies, it was dislike not hate. YEAHHHHHH BUDDDDYYYY

Congratulations on proving my point right about people taking what he says out of context. *slow claps*

Regards Gatland he did get quoted saying the Welsh hated Irish most and being honest he was trying to play mind games in prematch media but it has stuck. Maybe he'd isn't mean it in a certain context but it stuck.

Regards above. I certainly agree Ireland are no world beaters and no team is outside All Blacks. Not many have beat All Blacks in recent years but I'd put that down to us seeing the greatest era of a team to ever play this game. I'd put that team 08/09 on to now the best team to ever play the game. But that era is coming to an end. The gap is closing massively.

Again, can you please cite this quote of Gatland saying the Welsh hate the Irish? To mimic Hulkster, do you Irish not differentiate between 'dislike' and 'hate'? Massive difference.

Also, yeah i'd agree with all of that in your second paragraph but would also say that it does not apply solely for Ireland. I think the gap between the All blacks and Ireland is much larger than that between Ireland and Wales for example. Thankfully, everyone is catching up to everyone else as a result of the professionalisation of the sport. Good times ahead, but who knows how far ahead.
 
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Last one I remember is him saying that the Welsh hated the Irish the most and I haven't really listened to him since, it's not really worth my time but we usually get a story a year from Mr. Gats saying something stupid, intentional or not there isn't another coach in rugby who attracts the same attention.

As as for my "type like a nine year old" (sweet irony) I give what I get, you came looking for a BOD debate where there needn't have been one so I trolled and I'd expect the exact same in reverse. I am also done with this thread and must plead guilty to being accessory to its murder but I played such a minuscule role I would plead with my peers to have mercy!


Gatlands mouth writes check that his team can't cash!! This is well known in the rugby world.
 
Just to throw it out there. It doesn't have to be a national team coach that gets the gig either. I know it's unlikely and I can't think of anyone off top of my head but the net can be wider.

Maybe Matt O'Connor???

Ha but seriously at moment can't see past Schmidt but 2 years is a lifetime in rugby. A lot will change between now and then. I know Schmidt signed extension as did All Blacks coaching team but a disastrous RWC for NZ could see Schmidt in that corner
 
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Nothing like ending a debate by just diminishing the achievement of winning a lions series. It's also handy to just say without any substance that BOD being dropped had nothing to do with the final game's result. My point being that we will never know whether BOD would have played well, what we DO know is that BOD was terrible in the previous game, had to be dropped, Davies brought in, performed in all the sectors which BOd could not, and the Lions won. Thus making all the abuse and hugely biased criticism of Gatland imbecilic and unfounded.
Because dropping one player, at 13, doesn't cause the difference between a team that loses against Australia and a team that thrashes Australia. There was an overall improvement throughout the entire team, going from the second test (where the team played extremely bad) to the third.

Also, England have 2 wins and 0 losses single-handedly against Australia since the Lions tour. Ireland are 1-1. Australia haven't been a particularly tough side for a long time. They have a pack that can be pushed around by the right team. The collective might of four improving home nations should easily put away Australia.

I think Gatland held back the Lions, and I think Gatland holds back Wales. Gatland has one or two big games a year and everyone seems to forget how, most of the time, his teams are full of talent and are completely underwhelming.

This isn't meant as a dig. I say exactly the same thing about Lancaster.

Schmidt is the only Home Nation head coach that I really rate and should be the next Lions coach. (Rob Baxter would be my second choice.)
 
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It seems this is the "things Gatland may have said and done" thread now.
 
Just to throw it out there. It doesn't have to be a national team coach that gets the gig either. I know it's unlikely and I can't think of anyone off top of my head but the net can be wider.

I think I'd vastly prefer a club coach, but where's the guy with the record saying "I could lead the Lions?" The only person I see getting close to that in the next year is Mallinder, at a stretch.

We should totally approach Rennie and Smith for lulz though.

Well, parts were related to what you wrote (note the part which states that it was a stupid comment). The rest was more of a general comment not a direct response to your one line of drivel. How about you actually attempt to counter with a logical response instead of a cop out 'daz not whut I sed doh'. I also love how in my 'paragraph' in response to you, you still quote me on any other comments which are not directed at you personally. Amusing

I'll also point out that all the coaches have pretty awful records against NZ in recent years (don't bring up 2012, that was an England side at their very best (haven't matched it) against, shall we say, a 'poor(ly)' All blacks side. If it is all about records then does Gatland not have the upper hand for actually succeeding in a tournament (or three or four)? And also beating SA unlike Lancaster has and England since 2006? The fact is that the only real candidate at the moment is Schmidt. But even so, all the Lions nations are living in glass houses and have had little to no real success against any of the SANZAR teams. Don't act like it's just Wales.

Well I could, but since this post isn't really related to what I said either, I can only assume you're less interested in a debate and more about justifying your passionate defence of Gatland by any possible stretch of logic and whatabouttery, regardless of consistency, common sense and what was written.

So rhubarb horseradish nuns whisky bloop. There we go, a post you can respond to ^_^

p.s. No one mentioned Lancaster/50pc of aussie scrumball lost and a yellow card suggests Davies somewhat besides the point/Gatland's comments on English players pre-Lions tour/beating Oz with total scrum dominance is so easy Martin Johnson did it/please stop jumping the gun and calm down/then again this is funny.
 
It seems this is the "things Gatland may have said and done" thread now.
Well, he's the front runner for the gig in 2017 and I'm pretty sure most English/Irish/some Welsh posters wouldn't be happy with this. (I would include Scottish posters in this too, but I'm not sure of ImScotty's views on this... :p)
 
I think I'd vastly prefer a club coach, but where's the guy with the record saying "I could lead the Lions?" The only person I see getting close to that in the next year is Mallinder, at a stretch.

We should totally approach Rennie and Smith for lulz though.



Well I could, but since this post isn't really related to what I said either, I can only assume you're less interested in a debate and more about justifying your passionate defence of Gatland by any possible stretch of logic and whatabouttery, regardless of consistency, common sense and what was written.

So rhubarb horseradish nuns whisky bloop. There we go, a post you can respond to ^_^

p.s. No one mentioned Lancaster/50pc of aussie scrumball lost and a yellow card suggests Davies somewhat besides the point/Gatland's comments on English players pre-Lions tour/beating Oz with total scrum dominance is so easy Martin Johnson did it/please stop jumping the gun and calm down/then again this is funny.

Well that's your perception of what this discussion has been. From mine, it is not about defending Gatland (anyone with half a wit will be able to see that i do not regard his as the man to lead the lions in 2017), but arguing against those who clearly are spouting any negative criticisms of the last tour and its coach, due to their distorted views based on thinly veiled patriotism or straight up distortions of reality.

I think Hulkster has provided one of the the only actual objective comments, and that is not to say i completely agree with it all. The reason i'm getting a bit irate, is that people are using the same old arguments with no backing whatsoever of fact or context.

Anyway. I'm i'll, need sleep. Goodbye dear TRF'ers. Enjoy teh thread
 
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