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Road to Lions 2017

All Blacks squad in 2017 against the Lions:

(Assuming most of these of players will be there)
1. Joe Moody
2. Dane Coles
3. Owen Franks
4. Brodie Retallick
5. Sam Whitelock
6. Liam Messam/Steven Luatua
7. Sam Cane/Matt Todd
8. Kieran Read (c)
9. Aaron Smith
10. Aaron Cruden
11. Julian Savea
12. Malakai Fekitoa/Sonny Bill Williams
13. Ryan Crotty
14. Charles Piutau
15. Ben Smith

Maybe McCaw might be still around.
 
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for the lions, thanks to vern i think Scotland will have more players in the team than the last tour maybe some might even start, This is actually tricky but I'll give it a bash.

15.) Stuart Hogg (with Vern help I think he will be a really good player especially in 2 years time)
14.) Tommy Bowe (Certainly on good form for Ireland, even though did look at Anthony Watson closely)
13.) Manu Tuilagi (I really do not know anyone else who can compete for 13)
12.) Jamie Roberts (Good player, could have put Matt Scott in there)
11.) George North (I think this was easy I don't know who else would be there)
10.) Jonny Sexton (Did have an idea of George Ford there or even Finn Russell but I think Jonny Sexton is still better)
9.) Conor Murray (Was finding it hard to not include Greig Laidlaw in the team but i'm sure Laidlaw will be involved in the lions tour really felt he should have been in the squad to Australia)
8.) Billy Vunipola (If on form, can really be a good number 8 for the lions)
7.) Sam Warburton (I would not change him from captain from the lions tour that went to Australia)
6.) Tom Wood (Don't really know who else can be 6)
5.) Joe Launchbury (Did want to add Jonny Gray in there but I think Launchbury gets the edge in this battle)
4.) Richie Gray (I think the key to winning the test is getting players with lions experience which is the only reason why I included Richie and on fine form can be a really good lock)
3.) David Wilson (good scrummager, think he'll take the 3 jersey)
2.) Dylan Hartley (He is playing better than Hibbard and his form for Gloucester will cost his place, and Dylan if he doesn't get suspended again will be a good hooker)
1.) Cian Healy (Like Wilson a good scrummager and also an all round good player wouldn't have anyone else to be honest)

16.) Rob Webber (Really don't know to be honest don't think any off the Scotland hookers will be good enough)
17.) Joe Marler (There isn't really anyone else cause lets be honest Corbisiero will most likely be injured then)
18.) Samson Lee (The guy impressed me, I did think about Zander but I don't even think he'd be capped for Scotland by then)
19.) Jonny Gray (The 20 year old in my opinion is underrated and i think will be one off rugby's best lock in my opinion)
20.) Dan Lydiate (A really good tackler, I think he will be needed to face New Zealand)
21.) Greig Laidlaw (come on, one really impressive scrum-half for Scotland and will hopefully get called up for the lions)
22.) George Ford (Was temped to pick Finn Russell, but under huge pressure I think Ford will be the better pick)
23.) Leigh Halfpenny (As someone who kicked for the lions before I think Leigh Halfpenny should be the choice to help the lions if they are struggling)
 
I didn't know Wilson is 2 years and 11 months older than Cole.

In terms of Potential still think Slater or Kitchener could become one of the England locks after the RWC and might well be knocking on the Lions door come 2017.
 
dont mean to poke a hornets nest but from what I have seen in the eurpoean games POC has played in I would not have him anywhere the lions team on current form.

Much like the 2013 tour, he's nailed on as captain already ;)
 
2 and a half years is looong time and I'm sure there will be a lot of breakthrough players in that time, anyway:

1. Corbisiero
2. anyones guess- I'm pretty sure this will be one of the breakthrough players
3. Lee
4. Launch
5. AWJ
6. Itoje
7. O'brien
8. Hughes
9. Murray
10. Ford
11. North
12. Slade
13. Tuilagi
14. Wade
15. Watson

16. Hibbard
17. Healey
18. Brookes
19. Lawes
20. Warburton
21. Davies
22. Sexton
23. Halfpenney

There is probably an English bias with this as I'm not aware of some of the younger Irish/ Scottish players
 
Gatland's inability to get sides to win against SANZAR under normal conditions should disqualify him in any sane universe, Lions win or no. Last time, there was literally no one else. This time, we appear to have a good smattering of likely coaches, although its slightly depressing how they're all Kiwis.
 
We also have to take into account that Australia were/are a very poor 3rd relation in regards the 3 Lions tours and if Gatland had not won the series with the players he had it would have raised some serious questions as to his coaching ability.

Could Cotton/Lancaster/Schmidt have won that test series? Yes
 
dont mean to poke a hornets nest but from what I have seen in the eurpoean games POC has played in I would not have him anywhere the lions team on current form.

It'd be easy to say so you've missed all of Munsters games in Europe so.
 
That required a huge amount of luck and really should have been a whitewash, Gatland was the right and only choice last time and, to be fair, got the job done but it was a pretty forgettable tour. I reckon Schmidt and Cotter will be in the driving seat in two years time, they're both better coaches and don't live off controversy which can lead Lions tours to disaster. Whoever of the two of them take it will likely be the next coach of New Zealand.

Still hurt over the O'Driscoll dropping eh? ;) Best and most obvious decision which needed to be made of the whole tour for me. It'll be different come the next tour, but Gatland picked the best team to win and did so in style with every player earning their place.
 
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Still hurt over the O'Driscoll dropping eh? ;) Best and most obvious decision which needed to be made of the whole tour for me. It'll be different come the next tour, but Gatland picked the best team to win and did so in style with every player earning their place.
LolkDaviesstillmissedtacklebruhbye
 
In fairness it's hard to judge last tour. Yes they won but it was against worst side they've toured against in long time. From all 4 nations it's said atmosphere was nowhere near 09 tour. So I don't know but if I'm being honest I don't see Gatlands style beating NZ down there. And it's known he won't pick Schmidt as he sees him as a rival for Kiwi job in time. And there styles differ too much.
 
Since when was being one missed gimme kick away from losing before the 3rd game "in style"? :lol:
 
Since when was being one missed gimme kick away from losing before the 3rd game "in style"? :lol:

Fully agree. And I'd say it would be 1 missed kick away from losing to worst opposition in decades. But the mutterings were his man management and tactic meetings weren't greatly accepted by all. In saying that Schmidt is similar in terms of his depth in attention to detail but his philosophy is totally different.
 
LolkDaviesstillmissedtacklebruhbye

Dude, did you even watch O'Driscoll play in the second game? He was the worst player on the pitch by a country mile. Funny how different the 3rd game was when he was off eh?


Gatland's inability to get sides to win against SANZAR under normal conditions should disqualify him in any sane universe, Lions win or no. Last time, there was literally no one else.

Wins last match against a SANZAR side. Wins last Lions Tour. Dat logic :lol:

Since when was being one missed gimme kick away from losing before the 3rd game "in style"? :lol:

What a stupid comment. Could you not say the same thing about the second game for the Lions, where the score was actually closer? What about the complete change of strategy and variables which would have followed a loss in the first game? (could i maybe point to the reaction in the 3rd game, which is based on something that actually happened?) Gatland did the absolute best thing after the outrageous criticism he received just for dropping an out of form (albeit legendary), slightly declining world class player, with an up and coming, in form world class player (actually a world cup semi final, grand slam and 6n championship in the 3 most recent competitions is more than Brian had done in those years leading up to it). That was, to destroy the Aussies in the 3rd game and vindicate his decisions spectacularly. You're right fellas, totally smacks of disunity and rebellion against Gatland. Sheesh :rolleyes:

So much butthurt guys, it's hilarious :lol:

Incidentally i'd definitely have Schmidt as of now, he's been incredible for Leinster and Ireland so far. Doesn't make you guys any less ignorant though :)
 
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Dude, did you even watch O'Driscoll play in the second game? He was the worst player on the pitch by a country mile. Funny how different the 3rd game was when he was off eh?




Wins last match against a SANZAR side. Wins last Lions Tour. Dat logic :lol:



What a stupid comment. Could you not say the same thing about the second game for the Lions, were the score was actually closer? What about the complete change of strategy and variables which would have followed a loss in the first game? Gatland did the absolute best thing after the outrageous criticism he received just for dropping an out of form world class player, with an up and coming in form world class player (actually a world cup semi final, grand slam and 6n championship in the 3 most recent competitions is more than Brian had done leading up to it). That was, to destroy the Aussies in the 3rd game. You're right fellas, totally smacks of disunity and rebellion against Gatland. Sheesh
So much butthurt guys, it's hilarious :lol:

Incidentally i'd definitely have Schmidt as of now, he's been incredible for Leinster and Ireland so far. Doesn't make you guys any less ignorant though :)

The opening and closing comments are fantastic. I think you've forgotten how bad Davies was in the first two tests and how who was in the 13 jersey in the last match didn't make the slightest bit of difference to the 3rd test despite what you're alluding to.

No one mentioned BO'D before you and it's not really something anyone cares about at this stage. More people don't like how Gatland has a very set style that is easy to predict and counter especially if the team can't establish dominance up front (the real source of the third test win) something that is less likely to happen against New Zealand than Australian and something NZ can definitely deal with better than them. There's also how this game plan relies on certain players meaning that even if they're not in form they will get the start, see Lydiate and Philips which is not a good situation to be in, particulary against NZ.

There's also the fact that pretty much every other option is better. The O'Driscoll dropping is very very far down any list I'd have for not wanting Gatland as coach.
 
Seen them all just not cursed with one eye

Seen any of the Ireland games?

He's been pretty good. Certainly not the best lock available but one of them even with the fierce competition. If a squad was picked tomorrow he probably would make it. Not as a starter but considering Launchbury is injured he'd be a good bet to be there.
 
Seen them all just not cursed with one eye
Yeah, I thought Paulie was poor in our match v Clermont at home in particular, but I think that's just a bit of bad form. He's played some of his best rugby of his career recently and if he's still playing he will tour for experience alone.
Gatland is not the coach to beat New Zealand. Yes he beat what was the weakest side we've toured in ages, but his gameplan is one dimenional and well advertised by now. He wouldn't be going into this competition with better players than the opposition like last time. Honestly anything other than Schmidt based on where we stand now is inexplicable.
 
Yes, it's totally whatever it isn't to point out that Gatland's record against the sort of teams we want is godsawful. Ignorant. Butthurt. Something. Apparently one win completely wipes out the preceding twenty odd games before it, which is good to know. That or Jbobo is more interested in loose wording because it's far easier to construct a reply to that than the super obvious point about Gatland's record. Something like that.

And that's an awful long paragraph with nothing to do with what I've written.
 
The opening and closing comments are fantastic. I think you've forgotten how bad Davies was in the first two tests and how who was in the 13 jersey in the last match didn't make the slightest bit of difference to the 3rd test despite what you're alluding to.

No one mentioned BO'D before you and it's not really something anyone cares about at this stage. More people don't like how Gatland has a very set style that is easy to predict and counter especially if the team can't establish dominance up front (the real source of the third test win) something that is less likely to happen against New Zealand than Australian and something NZ can definitely deal with better than them. There's also how this game plan relies on certain players meaning that even if they're not in form they will get the start, see Lydiate and Philips which is not a good situation to be in, particulary against NZ.

There's also the fact that pretty much every other option is better. The O'Driscoll dropping is very very far down any list I'd have for not wanting Gatland as coach.

Well Cmac mentioned Gatland living off controversy (not exactly sure how that would help in an actual international rugby game). Ironically the controversy was all blown up by the petulant angry lions 'fans' who almost ruined the entire tour with their blatant fan boy sentiments for Brian and their disappointment at Gatland picking a team made up primarily of Welshman (just read the lions threads and abuse Gatland received personally). This is why I mention it. People do care still and i've seen so much hate for Gatland since because of it. It's actually difficult not to follow their path and start disliking O'Driscoll myself as a result of it.

The rest of your post i'd pretty much agree with. I don't think Gatland will be the man to win the series, but only time will tell. But based on his admittedly predictable style alone, it's the last thing you want to take to NZ.

Can you explain for me though what your point is when you say that Davies played so badly in the first two tests but ignore the fact that when O'Driscoll was in that position, he arguably cost us the second game? Although you say that whoever was i the 13 jersey didn't make the slightest bit of difference in the 3rd test, i would argue that Davies had a very solid game particularly in defense and with his left boot. This is something O'Driscoll was severely lacking in the second test and cost us badly along with losing Warburton. He defended horribly and his kicking was absolutely shocking. Just because a player is not notably game changing in a good or bad way, does not mean they made no difference. Davies was clearly the right choice, and one the team backed as well as most impartial experts (minus Keith Wood, obviously).

I mean you point out that he has his 'favorite' players, but skip the part where since our poor showing at the 6 Nations last year he dropped Phillips and Lydiate's return to form. If the main point is to win tournaments etc, then why would he not have faith in the players who have brought him that success in the recent past? When they are clearly not performing, he either drops them, or perseveres because we simply do not have another outstanding candidate at that time. I agree Phillips may not be the choice if the Lions were to play the All Blacks next week, but then, he isn't even in the Wales 9 shirt now. Same goes for players who he has persisted with like Priestland who although was excellent in 2011/12, should have been dropped much sooner. We forget though, that Biggar was first choice when fit since 2013 so the view that Gatland will select players regardless of their poor form is pretty ill concieved. Just look at the other Coaches, they also have some tendencies to select poor performing players (not going to name any, but will do if asked to). If you want proof, just go to any international thread and watch supports' dismay at some of the bewildering selections of their team.

Yes, it's totally whatever it isn't to point out that Gatland's record against the sort of teams we want is godsawful. Ignorant. Butthurt. Something. Apparently one win completely wipes out the preceding twenty odd games before it, which is good to know. That or Jbobo is more interested in loose wording because it's far easier to construct a reply to that than the super obvious point about Gatland's record. Something like that.

And that's an awful long paragraph with nothing to do with what I've written.

Well, parts were related to what you wrote (note the part which states that it was a stupid comment). The rest was more of a general comment not a direct response to your one line of drivel. How about you actually attempt to counter with a logical response instead of a cop out 'daz not whut I sed doh'. I also love how in my 'paragraph' in response to you, you still quote me on any other comments which are not directed at you personally. Amusing

I'll also point out that all the coaches have pretty awful records against NZ in recent years (don't bring up 2012, that was an England side at their very best (haven't matched it) against, shall we say, a 'poor(ly)' All blacks side. If it is all about records then does Gatland not have the upper hand for actually succeeding in a tournament (or three or four)? And also beating SA unlike Lancaster has and England since 2006? The fact is that the only real candidate at the moment is Schmidt. But even so, all the Lions nations are living in glass houses and have had little to no real success against any of the SANZAR teams. Don't act like it's just Wales.
 
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