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Road to Lions 2017

1 Bent
2 McCartney
3 Longbottom
4 Graham
5 Bresler
6 Strauss
7 Braid
8 Waldrom
9 Hart
10 Bleyendaal
11 Marshall
12 Aki
13 Smith
14 Maitland
15 Anscombe

etc. etc. etc.
 
1. Ross Harrison
2. Tommy Taylor
3. Samson Lee
4. Josh Beaumont
5. Alun Wyn Jones
6. Magnus Lund
7. Dave Seymour
8. Ben Morgan
9. Connor Murray
10. Danny Cipriani
11. Johnny May
12. Kyle Eastmond
13. Manu Tuilagi
14. Simon Zebo (c)
15. Mike Haley

16. Webber, 17. Healy, 18. Cole, 19. Launchbury, 20. O'Brien, 21. Care, 22. Slade, 23. Addison

It's ok but Zebo only wears 11 or very very rare 15 (Do in Batman from Lego Movies voice)
 
So anyone wanna update us with their lions 23 ahead of the World Cup? I think it's really tough to call right now, but i'll post mine in due course.

Also, let's keep it clean and try to have some humility in this thread going forward if anyone wants to join discussion. (myself included)
 
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So anyone wanna update us with their lions 22 ahead of the World Cup? I think it's really tough to call right now, but i'll post mine in due course.

Also, let's keep it clean and try to have some humility in this thread going forward if anyone wants to join discussion. (myself included)

Well said.
I'd go for:

1) Healy
2) Best (probably the weakest position in the team)
3) Cole
4) O'Connell (c)
5) AW Jones (depending on how you want to play)
6) SOB
7) Warburton
8) Vunipola

9) Murray
10) Sexton
11) Bowe (if he is at full fitness/form)
12) Roberts
13) JJ
14) North
15) Hogg (very tough to call, could've gone with 1/2p or Brown also but I wanted some Scottish representation)

16) Youngs (impact sub)
17) Vunipola (impact sub - would rather have Healy, Marler or Jenkins starting)
18) Lee
19) Launchbury
20) Morgan
21) Youngs/Webb
22) Ford
23) Nowell

I went for the English on a fair few tight calls (probably due to my natural bias haha).
 
So anyone wanna update us with their lions 22 ahead of the World Cup? I think it's really tough to call right now, but i'll post mine in due course.

Also, let's keep it clean and try to have some humility in this thread going forward if anyone wants to join discussion. (myself included)
As if it were being picked now, or an expected 2017 team?
my expected team:

Healey (if he isn't broken)
Cowan-Dickie
Cole
Launchbury
AWJ (close call)
Itoje
O'Brien
Vunipola
Webb
Ford
North
Tuilagi (meh)
Joseph
May (he will come good- trust me)
Williams (obviously best fb in Wales)

Youngs
Marler
Lee
Gray
Clifford
Murray
Slade
1/2p

from a Wales-centric team in 2013, it will be England to dominate in 2017 (no bias hehe)
come at me.

oh, and if I were picking now: Healy, Owens, Cole, AWJ, Launch, O'Brien, Robshaw, Vunipola, Webb, Ford, North, Henshaw, Joseph, Bowe, Williams
 
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oh, and if I were picking now: Healy, Owens, Cole, AWJ, Launch, O'Brien, Robshaw, Vunipola, Webb, Ford, North, Henshaw, Joseph, Bowe, Williams

you'd pick Ford over Sexton?

I think it will be aong the lines of:

Marler/Corbisiero/Healy (undecided here)
Youngs/????
Cole/Lee
Lawes
AWJ
Itoje
Warburton
Vunpoila
Murray
Sexton
North
Henshaw/Roberts
Tuilagi/Davies
Halfpenny
Hogg
 
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I'd go Ford over Sexton now.

My own 2 cents is he's better player all round except for tactical kicking which Sexton is streets ahead currently. Might even be the reason he gets ahead.

No qualms about any of the british half backs though. Russell and Biggar are classy players as well.

Thinking about it, when was the last time the british isles had this handy a depth at half back?
 
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I'd go Ford over Sexton now.

My own 2 cents is he's better player all round except for tactical kicking which Sexton is streets ahead currently. Might even be the reason he gets ahead.

No qualms about any of the british half backs though. Russell and Biggar are classy players as well.

Thinking about it, when was the last time the british isles had this handy a depth at half back?

fair play, i think Sexton brings more to the party than ford - who whilst great isn't as good as Sexto imho.
 
So anyone wanna update us with their lions 22 ahead of the World Cup? I think it's really tough to call right now, but i'll post mine in due course.

Also, let's keep it clean and try to have some humility in this thread going forward if anyone wants to join discussion. (myself included)
Fair dos.

I'll take a pop.

1. Healy
2. Cowan Dickie
3. Cole
4. Lawes
5. Launchbury
6. Itoje
7. O'Brien/Warburton/Tipuric (some magnificent celtic 7)
8. Vunipola
9. Murray
10. Ford
11. North
12. Henshaw
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Hogg

Substitutes:
16. Marler
17. Best
18. Samson Lee
19. Jonny Gray/Tipuric likely
20. Morgan/Tipuric
21. Youngs/Webb/Hidalgo Clyne
22. Sexton/Russell
23. Bennett/Slade

Bloody good side. I wanted to see if I could put in more celts (that's not condescending I was genuinely trying to do so) but alot of the irish are starting to go the wrong side of 30 and it's very hard to pick any of the tight 5 of wales/ireland or scotland.

The big thing is you don't know how many of the key irish and welsh players will go by 2017 so it's hard to say.
 
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you'd pick Ford over Sexton?

I think it will be aong the lines of:

Marler/Corbisiero/Healy (undecided here)
Youngs/????
Cole/Lee
Lawes
AWJ
Itoje
Warburton
Vunpoila
Murray
Sexton
North
Henshaw/Roberts
Tuilagi/Davies
Halfpenny
Hogg

I was getting heat for putting Itoje's name forward for England- he's now a worthy BIL I see! (no qualms from me)
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think Sexton is a flake for the big matches- On second thoughts I might actually put Biggar's name forward for the role, a much underrated player.
 
Just on it. We can obviously put out a decent team. But how do people think we will fair against the All Blacks?
 
I was getting heat for putting Itoje's name forward for England- he's now a worthy BIL I see! (no qualms from me)
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think Sexton is a flake for the big matches- On second thoughts I might actually put Biggar's name forward for the role, a much underrated player.

Unfortunately it's an annoyingly widely held opinion. It seems to come from the NZ match in 2013 and be wholly based on place kicking which, frankly is just ridiculous really. For me if he was bottling it or whatever term you want to use his whole performance would surely go to ****? Yet that's not the case. In the game in Paris last year he missed two kicks, but he also scored two tries and was a collossus on defense. He's won three Heineken Cup finals in which his record is 16/19 from placekicks, one drop goal from the halfway, two tries and one man of the match award. He's also been the key player in two championships for Ireland and an important part of a winning Lions series.

Basically he's not as good a kicker as Halfpenny. He's an 80%ish kicker which means he's going to miss around one fifth of his kicks. People notice these more in the important matches. He's also incredibly bad at kicks 5m or so to the right of the posts whereas he'ss generally nail the touckline kicks. People expect him to get the ones 5m to the right and when he misses them they also will stand out more. With this idea in their mind people will comment on it if it happens again. Therefore Sexton misses 2 kicks I think it was in the Scotland match around the time Ireland would have gone ahead on points difference and people start calling him a bottler. Ian Madigan comes on and misses a kick from around the same area and with the same need to beat the points difference, he misses and no one makes a comment. George Ford is later kicking in a match where England need every point they can get to win the Championship. He misses a few and again, no comment.

There's also the fact that over the last two year and a half years or so Sexton has struggled with a hamstring problem. Something which has a pretty understandable effect on his kicking. Due to him being by far our best 10 (that's not even an insult to any of our other 10s) he's is generally left on as long as possible. This often results in him being at a stage where he shouldn't be on the pitch standing over an important kick. That's not his fault, that's management.

TL DR: Holding Sexton as a bottler/flake/whatever is a pretty unfair opinion.

P.S. For all the English fans putting Itoje in. I get he's flavour of the month but I mean surely you are aware that Iain Henderson exists? :p
 
If now:

Healy
Youngs (Bit sad that he is best but he is awesome in the loose and not as bad as people make out)
Cole
AWJ
Launchbury
POM
SOB
Vunipola
Murray
Ford
North
Henshaw
Joseph
Bowe
Hogg

Actually in 2017:
Healy
Cowan Dickie
Lee
Henderson/J Gray
Launchbury
Itoje
Kvesic
Vunipola
Murray
Ford
North
Henshaw/Tuilagi
Joseph
Watson
Hogg
 
I was getting heat for putting Itoje's name forward for England- he's now a worthy BIL I see! (no qualms from me)
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think Sexton is a flake for the big matches- On second thoughts I might actually put Biggar's name forward for the role, a much underrated player.

To be fair we're talking about in two years time, not for this world cup so i'm not sure where the parity between you suggesting Itoje for England now and people selecting him for a team in two years is.

What big games has Sexton flaked in? one poor kicking performance against New Zealand when he was carrying a hamstring injury and he's a flake?

He's been the best 10 in the NH for the last three years, arguably in the world, he's coming back to Leinster and will be working with schmidt again (who coudl very well lead the lions or be their attack coach) I think because of that he'll be picked over everyone else (injury permitting)

***Edit, I'm surprised so many people are picking Ford over Sexton and Biggar for the current Lions. Ford is a fantastic player but he's no where near as complete as Sexton.
 
Sexton hardly set the world alight this six nations did he? Whilst Ford was a breath of fresh air.

I think a bigger question is who do we to coach Gatland was hardly popular despite winning for the same reason Woodward was.
 
***Edit, I'm surprised so many people are picking Ford over Sexton and Biggar for the current Lions. Ford is a fantastic player but he's no where near as complete as Sexton.

But then people are projecting into the future. There's a lot of teams where people are looking at our very best current players and saying "They're not as good as can be" and are instead gambling on precociously talented youngsters to become the complete package. Most of them won't be. Take Ford. He will never be the complete top of the world fly-half as he will never be good enough in defence. Will the rest of his game take him beyond Sexton in two years' time? Doubt it. I don't fancy the current crop of hookers to do it, but LCD to make it happen within 2 years? Hrm.

Two years ago, I thought that Iain Henderson would be an Irish starter come the World Cup; I don't think he's any less an athlete than Itoje. If he makes it into the Irish team in time, it will be by the skin of his teeth. Itoje, I think, is in a similar position now to where Henderson was two years ago. Two years to crack the Lions 15? I wouldn't rule it out, but it would be a huge achievement assuming all his would-be rivals are fit.

Looking at the Lions team in 2013 - the vast majority of players had made international names for themselves by the end of the preceding World Cup. Looking at those who hadn't, the majority of them were quite old - Parling, Tom Youngs, Maitland, Grant (the last two bit players in due only to injury). The other half - Fazlet, Mako and Cuthbert - two benefited from injury, one from a severe dearth of competition, and both Fazlet and Cuthbert had made their case in the 2012 6N. Mako Vunipola was the most unlikely choice based on age/international experience, and wouldn't have been involved but for three injuries. Never say never, but if Itoje isn't starting for England next 6N, the odds are substantially against him.


Difficult to say how it will go against NZ, huge amount depends on how well they replaced their current departing crop of legends.

Finally, my guess at a 23 2 years out:

1. Healy 2. Owens 3. Cole 4. J. Gray 5. Launchbury 6. Henderson 7. O'Brien 8. B Vunipola; 9. Murray 10. Sexton 11. North 12. Tuilagi 13. Joseph 14. ? 15. Halfpenny; 16. Youngs 17. M Vunipola 18. Lee 19. Lawes 20. Warburton 21. ? 22. Russell 23. ?

Can't believe I'm leaving out AWJ but couldn't bring myself to name any other starting pairing and Lawes would, imo, offer more from the bench. Injury permitting, there could be a real flowering of talent in these isles in two years time.

Sexton hardly set the world alight this six nations did he? Whilst Ford was a breath of fresh air.

I think a bigger question is who do we to coach Gatland was hardly popular despite winning for the same reason Woodward was.

Sexton came straight back from injury and did what was needed. It's not always about wowing the fans. In any case, I don't think basing opinions solely on the preceding 6N is a good thing.

And the answer to that question is Schmidt. It's so obviously Schmidt I'm bewildered as to why you needed to ask it.
 
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Sorry was just offering an explanation to why Ford is favoured by many fans. Personally if he's still about in 2 years he'll be pushing Sexton for starting 10 that it'll be a major talking point.
 
Sorry was just offering an explanation to why Ford is favoured by many fans. Personally if he's still about in 2 years he'll be pushing Sexton for starting 10 that it'll be a major talking point.

It'll be a major talking point among fans but, for my money, there will be so much of a gulf between the two in defence that barring Ford learning how more or less dismantle any side in attack regardless, it won't be much of a discussion among the coaches.
 

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