Religion

[O'Rothlain]

I've just been reading up on it, and it appears it is tabu in most world religions. The hindu's are fairly absent on a platform, but in predominately hindu countries like India homsexual activities between men is outlawed.
Pagan religions of the Greeks and Romans allowed for it, but more likely in a bi-sexual arena...they were still verry keen on gender and gender positions.

 

[Rugby_Cymru]

I just find it really intriguing.
I mean, i know so many people that are gay and it's such a big issue in some religions that it must have ALWAYS been prominent.
So to dismiss it as unnatural and against what god wishes seems strange.
It can't be THAT unnatural if so many people are gay, can it?

 

[O'Rothlain]

I guess it's all in the definition of what gay is: Is it a lifestyle or is it a preference?

 

[sanzar]

Being gay has to be natural... I just can't imagine how it couldn't be. Love and attraction aren't logical, they're instinctive and you can't 'decide' on it one way or the other... Well that's what I feel anyway, it just seems ridiculous to me that someone could suggest homosexuality is a 'lifestyle' choice because I could not possibly bring myself to be with a man, and I come from a family that doesn't discriminate against such things. To me this essentially suggests that conservative religious types and other homophobic groups (because it's definately not just the religious right) who are claiming that homosexuality IS just a lifestyle choice and is logically decided on by the individual are simultaneously revealing to us that they have indeed felt attraction to those of the same gender... otherwise it should be as clear to them as it is to me that this is just not plausible.

 

[O'Rothlain]

Playing the devils advocate here:
Some people say it's not different that a fettish. It's a preffered way of having sex. Some say there are psychological tendicies (ie associations built in early development).
The other question is concerning love? What is love (baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me no more)? Is love a choice, an emotion, or some sort of supernatural experience?

Personally I think love is a series of choices and emotions that build to form an over all feeling of respect, awe, and desire.

So, I don't have all the answers. I know what the bible says in regards to sexual relationships, and that's what I attempt to follow.

 

[sanzar]

Yeah, I've heard the fetish argument before, but I personally think that's a heck of a cop out considering that gay relationships are about far more than just 'a preferred way of having sex'... Fetishes generally refer to dress ups or things involving pain, but basically don't affect the fact that these people still want to be involved in these things with the opposite sex, whereas homosexuality is far more generic.

As for following what the bible says on sexual relationships, well personally I think that can be a recipe for disaster for a lot of people. Often people who grow up with a strict religious upbringing end up believing that NOT following the word of the bible will send them straight to hell. If what the bible advocates is right for you then fine, but if in following its path you're forcibly repressing what's actually inside you, then... well then you end up with Mark Foley and Ted Haggard (the passionately anti-gay crystal meth taking reverend who hired a male prostitute). So yeah, you can't fight your biology and I suspect that generally speaking it's attempting to do so that has led to Catholic priests being almost synonymous with paedophilia.

 

[Ballymena Man]

God being god - you know omnipitent, all powerful etc. - why can't he take the time out (coz what is time to god, anyway?) and prove to each and every person who has any doubt, or just stright-up doesn't believe, that he DOES actually exist.

[/b]

In my opinion ,the main part of becoming a Christian is faith. You have to believe that there is a God, God was manifest in the flesh as a baby, was killed on the cross,rose again,etc.

According to answers.com, one of the meanings of faith is "Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence".

If God came down to earth now, and 'proved' himself, I believe that it would be impossible for anyone who saw him and got proof of his existance, to become a Christian. They would have no faith, they would have been resting on 'material evidence'.

Anyway, I and a lot of other people believe that there is enough proof in the Bible and in the very world we live in, that there is a God, and a very powerful God at that.

Hope this answers your question.

I mean, he could take human form, and endlessly impress you with his uneblievable party tricks.[/b]

Seems God was quite a few steps ahead of you on that one, he's already done it!

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

Hope this answers your question.

I mean, he could take human form, and endlessly impress you with his uneblievable party tricks.[/b]

Seems God was quite a few steps ahead of you on that one, he's already done it!
[/b]

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[Ballymena Man]

:lol: I've no speakers on my computer!!

 

[O'Rothlain]

<div class='quotemain'>
God being god - you know omnipitent, all powerful etc. - why can't he take the time out (coz what is time to god, anyway?) and prove to each and every person who has any doubt, or just stright-up doesn't believe, that he DOES actually exist.

[/b]

In my opinion ,the main part of becoming a Christian is faith. You have to believe that there is a God, God was manifest in the flesh as a baby, was killed on the cross,rose again,etc.

According to answers.com, one of the meanings of faith is "Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence".

If God came down to earth now, and 'proved' himself, I believe that it would be impossible for anyone who saw him and got proof of his existance, to become a Christian. They would have no faith, they would have been resting on 'material evidence'.

Anyway, I and a lot of other people believe that there is enough proof in the Bible and in the very world we live in, that there is a God, and a very powerful God at that.

Hope this answers your question.

I mean, he could take human form, and endlessly impress you with his uneblievable party tricks.[/b]

Seems God was quite a few steps ahead of you on that one, he's already done it!
[/b][/quote]

I'm glad someone else understands the word "Faith."

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

I have 'faith' in my family. I have 'faith' in my friends. I have 'faith' in Carlos Spencer to entertain me.

All of that is because I have seen those people do things which make believe how good and reliable they are.

I've never seen anything from 'God' to make me have any sort of 'faith' in him/her/it.

 

[Ballymena Man]

I have 'faith' in my family. I have 'faith' in my friends. I have 'faith' in Carlos Spencer to entertain me.

All of that is because I have seen those people do things which make believe how good and reliable they are.

I've never seen anything from 'God' to make me have any sort of 'faith' in him/her/it.
[/b]

1-Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.

2-Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

3-Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.

4-often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of
God's will.

5-The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.

6-A set of principles or beliefs.

These are the 6 meanings of faith on answers.com, in your examples you are showing meaning number 1. When having faith in God, we use meaning number 2

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

I could make any number of statements with the word 'faith' in them.

I could say that I have 'faith' that Northampton would beat New Zealand at rugby.

Using one word doesn't make an emotive idea any more correct - personally I can't work without logic, it's what the world revolves around. Every single thing has to have some element of logic surrounding it, but that doesn't mean any are necessarily right.

The logic of the Church keeping control of the masses through use of religion is very logical, that doesn't mean what they actually say is true.

 

[Ballymena Man]

I could make any number of statements with the word 'faith' in them.

I could say that I have 'faith' that Northampton would beat New Zealand at rugby.[/b]

I dont quite see what your getting at here, yes you could say that, and?

Using one word doesn't make an emotive idea any more correct - personally I can't work without logic, it's what the world revolves around. Every single thing has to have some element of logic surrounding it, but that doesn't mean any are necessarily right.

The logic of the Church keeping control of the masses through use of religion is very logical, that doesn't mean what they actually say is true.
[/b]

Your refering to the 'does not rest on logical proof' thing?

It doesn't say there is no logic, just that there is no logical proof

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

It doesn't say there is no logic, just that there is no logical proof
[/b]

Without proof there can be no logic surely? Logic has to lead to some sort of conclusion.


I was trying to tip-toe round what I actually wanted to say but I can't be bothered, it's my opinion so I don't care if anyone gets offended - with the rugby analogy I was basically trying to say that I could make any ridiculous statement and justify it using the word 'faith'. Does that make me correct to do so?

I'm thinking not.

 

[Ballymena Man]

<div class='quotemain'>
It doesn't say there is no logic, just that there is no logical proof
[/b]

Without proof there can be no logic surely? Logic has to lead to some sort of conclusion.


I was trying to tip-toe round what I actually wanted to say but I can't be bothered, it's my opinion so I don't care if anyone gets offended - with the rugby analogy I was basically trying to say that I could make any ridiculous statement and justify it using the word 'faith'. Does that make me correct to do so?

I'm thinking not.
[/b][/quote]
Yes your right, however in my first post i was not trying to convince anyway that what I believe is right, I was just trying to explain my opinion in answer to a question

 

[O'Rothlain]

<div class='quotemain'>
It doesn't say there is no logic, just that there is no logical proof
[/b]

Without proof there can be no logic surely? Logic has to lead to some sort of conclusion.


I was trying to tip-toe round what I actually wanted to say but I can't be bothered, it's my opinion so I don't care if anyone gets offended - with the rugby analogy I was basically trying to say that I could make any ridiculous statement and justify it using the word 'faith'. Does that make me correct to do so?

I'm thinking not.
[/b][/quote]

Hello, Dr. Spock. Did Star Trek not teach you anything?

 

[Canadian_Rugby_Guy]

I have 'faith' in my family. I have 'faith' in my friends. I have 'faith' in Carlos Spencer to entertain me.

All of that is because I have seen those people do things which make believe how good and reliable they are.

I've never seen anything from 'God' to make me have any sort of 'faith' in him/her/it.
[/b]

It is again our tendency to try to explain things logically, the reason we exist is proof in itself of God. If you were to try to understand faith in God more clearly, I'm sure you could find some less extreme but nonetheless pertinent proofs of the existence of some greater good and powerful being.

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

the reason we exist is proof in itself of God.[/b]

No it's not.

The reason I exist is proof that my parents wanted a baby and got one.

Proof of human existence is in evolution. Not only have the remains of human-esque figures from thousands of years ago been discovered, but you only have to look at little things from more recent history to see how prominent evolution is.

For example, look at the change in heights between generations. A hundred years ago, people did not grow as tall as they do now. Evolution to adapt to changing circumstances.

Simple and logical.

 

[sambãd5]

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one