RBS 6 Nations - Ireland vs Wales - (05/02/2012 -15:00)

[Feicarsinn]

Debatable

I'd tend to agree with Olyy on this one (although his continued presence in this thread is offensive to everyone involved), DOC isn't off form or anything, he's in terminal decline. And has been since the Lions tour in 09'. I like to cast my mind back to the first two games of last year's 6 nations when Leo got the number 4 shirt and looked excellent. But once Donncha was fit he got his jersey back. Such are then joys of being one of Deccie's pets.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Am I the only one who remembers McFadden getting the blitz horribly wrong against Scotland, basically letting them score? Not sure he's a great improvement on Earls tbh.

Why must Cave be injured

McFadden is a better player than Cave. you seem to be forgetting some of the brilliant rugby he's played for Leinster this year. He is strong in attack and defence and offers another kicking option. (both tactical and place kicking) He is more than capable of filling in at 13 and I think he'll do much better containing Jamie Roberts than Earls would have done.

 

[psychic duck]

Ireland 2015 World Cup if Kidney is in charge

2. Flannery
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
7. Wallace
10. O'Gara
13. Earls

 

[Me 1]

Ireland 2015 World Cup if Kidney is in charge

2. Flannery
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
7. Wallace
10. O'Gara
13. Earls

:lol:

 

[Feicarsinn]

McFadden is a better player than Cave. you seem to be forgetting some of the brilliant rugby he's played for Leinster this year. He is strong in attack and defence and offers another kicking option. (both tactical and place kicking) He is more than capable of filling in at 13 and I think he'll do much better containing Jamie Roberts than Earls would have done.

McFadden is a good player, but he's a 12. Cave would be a better option at outside centre. I'd like to see the two of them play together at some point on the summer tour.

 

[big ginger 8]

Ireland 2015 World Cup if Kidney is in charge

2. Flannery
4. O'Callaghan
5. O'Connell
7. Wallace
10. O'Gara
13. Earls

Nope BO'D has pretty much he said he should be around for 2015 so at least Earls won't be centre.

 

[lucky number 7]

We need to inspire more debate.

Sexton can't kick.
Faletau can't carry a ball without dropping it.
O'Brien can run in a straight line but can't play rugby.
Ireland can't scrum.
Wales have no backs play: It's all just bosh bosh bosh, even their scrumhalf is a flanker.
etc.etc.etc.

Gaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

RAaaaaaggggeeee!!!!

 

[King_D'Arcy]

Hope all is well with Earls and his family. I do think McFadden is the better option for this match though. Davies and Roberts will struggle to break through him.

 

[Me 1]

No Jonathon hasn't aired yet, but its always filmed on a Tuesday Should be fun, not looking forward to widescreen tv though, should have worn a smaller rugby jersey ahahaha

I was actually hoping the Orange one would feature in some form. Just for Gatland to stir the media, out Henson on the Bench or something! Even when he's playing Average/poorly he still gets my juices flowing. And the women have something nice to look at other than Jamie Roberts ;D

And yes, Mike Phillips is another Flanker, passes worse than most flankers also. No idea what his forms been like in France though :S

Jest 'di weld o, twpsin

 

[Jockstap]

Jest 'di weld o, twpsin

Bipity bopity boop.

 

[dullonien]

Davies and Roberts will struggle to break through him.

Just break through D'Arcy instead then

 

[psychic duck]

We need to inspire more debate.

Sexton can't kick.
Faletau can't carry a ball without dropping it.
O'Brien can run in a straight line but can't play rugby.
Ireland can't scrum.
Wales have no backs play: It's all just bosh bosh bosh, even their scrumhalf is a flanker.
etc.etc.etc.

1. Awesome for Leinster, just so far in his international career he can't goal kick, not sure why as he's shown he's capable with Leinster, I'm sure he will become a true international fly half at some point

2. I'll leave that one for the Irish members to debate

3. Couldn't scrum, until they replaced Buckley with Ross and Healy's scrummaging improved a great deal

4. True, now even more so now that Shane has gone, Halfpenny is the only Welsh sized person in the backs, pretty sure this must be the biggest backline of all time

 

[dullonien]

I'm tipping the Irish front row to come out on top on the weekend. No Lydiate and Jenkins takes the bite out their set pieces and Healy is better than any of their front row in the loose. O'Connell is still a better player than Davies and O'Callaghan vs Evans may be a bit of a cripple fight. With that in mind, I reckon the game will be decided by how well Sam Warburton plays. Should the Irish back three shackle him, I reckon we could do them by more than one score.

I still don't rate Healy that highly. He's a good ball carryer, but that doesn't make up for some of his deficiencies. He's an improving scrummager, but just like in the quarter final, he'll concede one or two penalties on Sunday with Adam Jones putting him through the mincer. He made a couple of big mistakes in that qf aswell, with his missed tackle on Davies simply shocking. Gill might be relatively unexperienced, but he's a good player. Our scrum certainly won't be weakened with him there. No prop can replace Gethin in the loose, that's true.

Not sure why Ian Evans is being put down to the same level as DOC in this thread? None of the Irish members wanted DOC anywhere near the squad, let alone the starting 15, he's been in dire form. Ian Evans has had a few very unfortunate years with injury after injury, but he's finally back playing some decent rugby. He's not in top form, but he'll provide a secure lineout option and some much needed dog in the second-row. He's been playing well for the O's, and performed well for Wales against Aus in Wales' last game. He's a quality player when fit, and he should be pushing for inclusion even when Alun-Wyn and Charteris are fit, as long as he can keep fit himself. Davies was being heralded as one of the best locks in the NH in 2010, his form dipped last year, but it's improved again this season. O'Connell is still a quality operator, but I'm not sure he's streets ahead of Davies as some seem to be suggesting.

I'm really interested to see how the Welsh second-row fare. If they do well in this years 6 nations, we may suddenly find ourselves with four quality locks to pick from. The strength in depth is improving at quite a rate at the moment. Another back-three player and tighthead would be nice though.

 

[big ginger 8]

I still don't rate Healy that highly. He's a good ball carryer, but that doesn't make up for some of his deficiencies. He's an improving scrummager, but just like in the quarter final, he'll concede one or two penalties on Sunday with Adam Jones putting him through the mincer. He made a couple of big mistakes in that qf aswell, with his missed tackle on Davies simply shocking. Gill might be relatively unexperienced, but he's a good player. Our scrum certainly won't be weakened with him there. No prop can replace Gethin in the loose, that's true.

Wow an outside centre pretty much just ran around a prop wasn't entirely Healy's fault is actually as defensively sound as a prop can get. Look up his hit on Kaino for example.

 

[coonor]

I think people are forgetting how well Healy played in the other matches before the QF. He had a storming game against Australia, he held his own in all the 6 nation matches and dominated most scrums in the H-Cup. If your going to rate him based on the one game against Wales then I'm sure I can do the same for many of the Welsh players by just looking back to the Australia match a few months.

I think Ireland take the front five battle. The backrow that comes out on top will be based on how the front five go but i'll give the edge to Wales. The half back pairings are pretty even with Sexton in my opinion being the better ahead of Priestland but Phillips is the more experienced and tested over Murray, because they worked so well in the WC I give the edge to Wales. Centres obviously Wales. Backthree is very close but I'll give the edge to Ireland based on experience and H-Cup form.

 

[RedCard]

I think people are forgetting how well Healy played in the other matches before the QF. He had a storming game against Australia, he held his own in all the 6 nation matches and dominated most scrums in the H-Cup. If your going to rate him based on the one game against Wales then I'm sure I can do the same for many of the Welsh players by just looking back to the Australia match a few months.

I think Ireland take the front five battle. The backrow that comes out on top will be based on how the front five go but i'll give the edge to Wales. The half back pairings are pretty even with Sexton in my opinion being the better ahead of Priestland but Phillips is the more experienced and tested over Murray, because they worked so well in the WC I give the edge to Wales. Centres obviously Wales. Backthree is very close but I'll give the edge to Ireland based on experience and H-Cup form.

We are comparing Wales / Irleland match ups though so other teams aren't as true a comparisson. No one is going to say Healy is a bad player.... he's just made to look that way up against the superior quality of Wales. Same with SOB.

Looking forward to this game and it's a hard one to call. Ireland home adv could just give them the edge. I think it will comedown to who gets their game together the quickest upfront. Warburton could be a huge factor as well because if he starts getting the turnovers to feed the Welsh backs then it coild be a hard task for Ireland. My biggest fear for Wales is that they are often slow starters which will have them playing catch up.

 

[dullonien]

Wow an outside centre pretty much just ran around a prop wasn't entirely Healy's fault is actually as defensively sound as a prop can get. Look up his hit on Kaino for example.

That isn't what happened though, and I re-watched the game a few days ago. Healy's attempt at a tackle was just aweful. He went high and just tried to grab Davies with flailing arms, Davies just shrugged him off to score. If Healy went in with the shoulder, he should have made that tackle.

Maybe I'm being a bit harsh on Healy, but not too many people other than the Irish reate Healy all that highly. As I said, good in the loose, but not the best (although improving) in the scrum. I think he'll be a great player in a few years, with time to mature (as most props need), but there's plenty of props I'd have instead of him. He should be viewed as better than Gill, simply because Gill is a relative rookie, but on the day I don't think ther'll be much difference between the two.

Adam Jones will still put Healy through the mincer..... Oh and Coonor, plenty of props have had 'storming' games against Austrailia.

I think your round-up of the combinations is pretty fair though. I do think Wales will have the dominant front-row, simply because Adam Jones is better than anything Ireland have to offer and will force a couple of penalties at the scrum. The rest I probably agree with. Backrow is quite even, because iven without Lydiate, Ryan Jones is in excellent form. Faletau has been in top, top form for the Dragons. Warburton has been a bit up and down, but has pulled out the big performances in the HC games, and I think he'll have another strong game tomorrow.

Very little between Priestland and Sexton, but Phillips has a significant advantage on Murray who's still learning. Back three I probably agree with. If it was North, Shane and Halfpenny, I'd give it to Wales, but Cuthbert (whilst big and very quick) is inexperienced and could make some mistakes. Kearney is in excellent form, but Bowe has dipped significantly from his world class form of a couple of years ago. Trimble is good, but not excellent. Still a slight edge to Ireland is fair with Cuthbert so inexperienced.

 

[coonor]

That isn't what happened though, and I re-watched the game a few days ago. Healy's attempt at a tackle was just aweful. He went high and just tried to grab Davies with flailing arms, Davies just shrugged him off to score. If Healy went in with the shoulder, he should have made that tackle.

Maybe I'm being a bit harsh on Healy, but not too many people other than the Irish reate Healy all that highly. As I said, good in the loose, but not the best (although improving) in the scrum. I think he'll be a great player in a few years, with time to mature (as most props need), but there's plenty of props I'd have instead of him. He should be viewed as better than Gill, simply because Gill is a relative rookie, but on the day I don't think ther'll be much difference between the two.

Adam Jones will still put Healy through the mincer..... Oh and Coonor, plenty of props have had 'storming' games against Austrailia.

ahhh but if you look at the opposition Healy has dealt with over the past year then I don't understand why people don't rate him higher. Of course Jones will have the upper hand sunday but based on his past season and current form I personally certainly think he is international class. Name three times in the last year where Healy has been completely dominated in the scrum. The only times I can think of is Jones in the QF but that wasn't exactly a domination more of an upper hand and against the Saints but that was only the first half.

 

[dullonien]

ahhh but if you look at the opposition Healy has dealt with over the past year then I don't understand why people don't rate him higher. Of course Jones will have the upper hand sunday but based on his past season and current form I personally certainly think he is international class. Name three times in the last year where Healy has been completely dominated in the scrum. The only times I can think of is Jones in the QF but that wasn't exactly a domination more of an upper hand and against the Saints but that was only the first half.

Don't disagree with you there really. He's improved a hell of a lot over the past year or two, especially in his scrummaging ability. Having a decent tight-head alongside him has helped with that. I just don't rate him as highly as some on here seem to. We all overate our own teams players, so that's probably fair aswell. I pointed out that in his last international game, that also happened to be against us, he was poor. Adam Jones may not have shoved him back 10m in every scrum, but that doesn't really happen anymore, because most just end in free-kicks and penalties, as they did in that game. Healy also knocked the ball on close to the Wales line, totally unforced (although there was a penalty advantage at the time if I remember right), and he missed that cruicial tackle on Davies. He may have been excellent in the HC, but international rugby is a step-up, and in his last game he was poor. I'm sure he won't be as poor again.

 

[Jockstap]

ARRRRRRrrgh, I thought this match was today, DISAPPOINTMENT.