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RBS 6 Nations - England vs Wales - 25/02/2012, 16:00

It's a shame as Hodgson, with Dickson at 9, would be immense. Don't understand the conspiracy theorists above saying his finger injury isn't real. It's international bloody rugby, if you're not picked you're not picked, they don't spin some story to the press about a finger injury.
However he's had to have two matches of Youngs shovelling s**t at him, and now Farrell gets the pleasure of having a good scrumhalf passing at him so will probably look better than Hodgson did.
Still don't think we'll see that much attacking threat with Farrell at 10 though.
Barritt at Tuilagi often crop up at first reciever though, so that should be all right, but they're going to have to work a lot harder with Farrell feeding them (and not just because they'll be chasing kicks a lot).
 
As a matter of interest, who's missing? Woods, Care (silly sausage), er.....Lots of possible swaps but I can't see many no-brainers.
Wood in for Corbisiero, PDJ for Cole (perhaps...), Lawes for Botha, Robshaw at 6 and Seymour (Wood when fit) in at 7, Burns for Farrell (admittedly contentious one), JSD for Strettle.
 
This 22 is better than the last two, but is still not close to being the best 22 England could put out.

As a matter of interest, who's missing? Woods, Care (silly sausage), er.....Lots of possible swaps but I can't see many no-brainers.[/QUOTE]

Basically what you said, Wood in at 7, Robshaw to 6, Croft to Bench, Dowson out of 22.
Care in at 9, Dickson down to the bench, Youngs off somewhere he can lose a stone. I had the feeling Youngs was looking a bit chubby and after looking on his england rugby profile he's weighing in at 14 Stone 6. For someone of his build I think that's definitely too much. Simpson is not much over 12! I think maybe that little excess is detracting from his former zip.

I'm happy with our bench, I do think we have the wherewithall there to change a game going against us.
Also, despite recent form I wouldn't say Strettle is either of the top 2 English wingers, but then I don't really know who is at the moment. I'm a Wade fan but I can see that it's perhaps too early for him. I'd certainly be more excited to see Sharples or Ojo on a wing.
 
I hope he is just playing mind games to 'kick start' his countrymen this weekend... wouldn't surprise me with Daws either. If a Welsh player did really say it Gats will set Edwards on him and he won't be giving opponents any extra ammo in future.
Because Gatland down the years himself has never suffered a case of neutral brain syndrome when talking to the media...!

Sounded like a typical pre-match comment we've come to expect from this fixture.

Not a bad side on paper. Lawes for Botha and a back 3 of Robshaw-Wood/Seymore-Morgan would bolster the pack in my opinion. Wouldn't complain too much if Short, Burns and Strettle forced their way in to the backs over the next season either.
 
Wood in for Corbisiero, PDJ for Cole (perhaps...), Lawes for Botha, Robshaw at 6 and Seymour (Wood when fit) in at 7, Burns for Farrell (admittedly contentious one), JSD for Strettle.

My point really, without going into the merits of the individuals, is that, after taking into account injuries and suspension, it is hard to see obvious better alternatives although there are always differences of opinion.
Over the last season or so, feeling pretty good about the selection has been rare and it's a nice change. That has to be a credit to Lancaster and his team. I suspect we will struggle against Wales but at least I don't feel we've lost the battle already and it gives England supporters something fully to get behind.
 
I am really looking forward to Twickenham on Saturday. Haven't been to a match at Twickenham for a couple of years now and I'm eagerly anticipating this game. The weather forecast looks OK as well !

I like the look of the England Team. Farrell played in a premiership winning side for a season at fly half so I'm not worried at all. I think that's going to be his position, so the sooner he gets the international experience the better. Strong pair of centres (they will need to be). For me a well balanced pacey pack as well. I may have started Lawes but Parling is probably a better line out forward so I'm OK with that selection really. Morgan deserves a start this time as we need a big ball carrying back row. Dickson for Youngs is a good move as Youngs has looked out of sorts and Dickson plays well week in, week out, for Northampton who seem to miss him when he's not there.

I still think Wales are favourates. We've beaten them twice last year but they have improved since then and this is a new England side. Wales have done a much better job in bringing in young players than England did under Johnson. Still we are where we are and it's good to see that it seems to be happening now as such we should expect some defeats along the way. I seem to remember Wales going through a long run of defeats not so long ago so they've felt the pain and are now reaping the rewards with a young side who now have international experience.

Mind you according to Dawson Wales are coming to humiliate us ! That's going to be motivation for England. We are a long way from being favourates but I don't think we'll get humiliated...who knows I've seen Wales sides who were definately second best on paper turn the tables on England when they have been firm favourates. Maybe it's England's turn !
 
Finally Lancaster has picked a team that looks quite strong. I'd say England have a good chance against Wales. Farrell is now playing in the position that he is expected too long term, and we now have a great spark in the form of Manu Tuilangi in the center. Dickson and Morgan get the starts they deserve, but if there is one thing I disagree with that Lancaster is done, it is play Geoff Parling instead of Lawes. Although I can understand he may still be partially injured, and so I expect he will make a large impact when he comes off the bench.

The problem with taking Palmer out of the team is that it limits our choices in the line out, and I don't understand why everyone is calling for Croft to be dropped. He has not played badly at all. Yes, he might not be in the same form he was back in the Lions tour, but there are not many people on form to replace him. Despite that, he might not be playing on form for his club, but I struggle to think of a game where he has played badly for England. He is a very good player and calling for him to be dropped at this moment in time is just absurd. If there is anyone in the team who should be dropped it should be Ashton, his lack of tries is showing him in bad light and I don't think he is coping with it so well, so I think he just needs to be reminded that he needs to work a lot harder if he wants to retain his place, and Sharples deserves a chance (but yes I know, he is injured!)
 
The problem with taking Palmer out of the team is that it limits our choices in the line out, and I don't understand why everyone is calling for Croft to be dropped. He has not played badly at all. Yes, he might not be in the same form he was back in the Lions tour, but there are not many people on form to replace him. Despite that, he might not be playing on form for his club, but I struggle to think of a game where he has played badly for England. He is a very good player and calling for him to be dropped at this moment in time is just absurd. If there is anyone in the team who should be dropped it should be Ashton, his lack of tries is showing him in bad light and I don't think he is coping with it so well, so I think he just needs to be reminded that he needs to work a lot harder if he wants to retain his place, and Sharples deserves a chance (but yes I know, he is injured!)

Apart from our new captain, who really ought to be the obvious choice at blindside. Players should be picked on form; you'd drop Ashton, who isn't on form for club or country, yet leave in Croft, who, by your own admission, isn't on form for club and has been utterly indifferent in an England jersey for the best part of two years.

He is athletically gifted, but way off the mark at the moment. He certainly hasn't earned his place in the starting lineup and it reeks of a lack of a viable alternative, as opposed to a well-deserved starting berth.
 
Apart from our new captain, who really ought to be the obvious choice at blindside. Players should be picked on form; you'd drop Ashton, who isn't on form for club or country, yet leave in Croft, who, by your own admission, isn't on form for club and has been utterly indifferent in an England jersey for the best part of two years.

He is athletically gifted, but way off the mark at the moment. He certainly hasn't earned his place in the starting lineup and it reeks of a lack of a viable alternative, as opposed to a well-deserved starting berth.

Maybe Woods would provide a suitable alternative ? He's always played well for england and was unlucky not to get picked in NZ.
 
In terms of this not being England's best 15...

The front row is as good as it's going to be with the resources we've got, and in general it's one of the stronger in the world.

Second row is awaiting a fully fit Lawes, but Botha's been decent in that role so far. Parling I haven't seen so much of so I can't really comment, but Palmer would probably be our best lineout expert lock... however, he's getting old and hasn't been at his best in the opening two games. In the wings Robson, Garvey and Attwood are in line for caps at some point.

At scrum half, England have a lot of depth - Youngs, Care, Simpson, Dickson, Wigglesworth with Spencer coming through. It's a question of selecting the right type of player and one who's on form - at the moment, Dickson seems to be that man considering Care is unavailable.

10 and midfield is also as good as we can do at the moment. People can talk about Wilkinson/ Hodgson if they like, but they are old. Flood isn't ready to start yet, and while there are a number of other players in the mix, none of them are obviously better than Farrell, Barritt and Tuilagi.

Back 3 sees a lot of depth at 15 with our best player starting there. Wings are a different matter, but with Sharples injured, Wade injured and an untried force, and Ojo seemingly out in the cold, Ashton and Strettle aren't bad players by any stretch - certainly among the most exciting wingers in Europe when they're getting good service, even if their defence is suspect.

So, numbers 5 and 10 could, possibly, be occupied by better players but that would mean picking someone not at 100% or someone who doesn't fit into England's 4 year plan.

The one area of selection we should be looking at is back row, but this is only because there's no proper openside. Haskell would improve the back row, but he's unavailable. Morgan looks like the strongest option we have at 8.

In general, though, if England lose they cannot really moan about not having their strongest team. Rarely does a professional side have a clean bill of health, so one or two players missing shouldn't be a problem. What is encouraging for me is that England have settled on a starting XV that is pretty close to our strongest, and every one of them should be around come RWC 2015. These players will gain experience and improve over the next 4 years, and new guys will emerge to fill in the holes. For once, I'm optimistic, regardless of the result against Wales.

In terms of a proper openside to wear 7, I've been frustrated in general by a video on rugbydump of Stade vs Toulon. Steffon Armitage looks to have been outstanding in that match. Firstly, the mere fact that he's worn 7 and played well seems to have seduced a lot of commenters into suggesting him as the answer to England's problem. This is frustrating seeing as he doesn't really demonstrate any of the qualities necessary for a true international fetcher - unlike, for example Andy Saull.

But what is most frustrating is that I think Armitage's talent has been wasted because he wears 7. Here is a flanker who is 5'9, built like a tank and with pace to burn. You'd think that would be the perfect physical attributes for a genuine openside. Which for me begs the question, why has he/ his coaches never bothered to learn the position properly? Is it because his ball-carrying abilities distract from the need to spend time buried at the bottom of a ruck? In which case, why did nobody suggest he be a hooker when he was younger? Something tells me that with a little tweaking earlier in his career, Steffon Armitage could be an important part of England's future. What a shame it's not happened and he's now off the radar in France.
 
I never thought groundwork was Steflon's problem. On the contrary, its one of his strengths. I'd say question marks exist over his tackling and fitness at international level, he didn't exactly shine for England when picked but given his performances for Toulon he definitley deserves another chance. But there's no doubt in my mind that he's an accomplished all round 7 in the domestic game at least.

edit: No team sans JSD should be considered England's strongest at present.

Also, if Wales lose this, they're massive bottlers.
 
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I don't buy this idea that there are no cancidates to be playing instead of Croft. On the basis that a side should only have the one blindsied - Robshaw for us - there are then around half a dozen individuals capable, if not world class, of playing 7. Wood, Seymour, Saull. In that order. Then the debatable Calum CLarke. ( I think he has many attributes of a decent 7) Then you've got those who clearly are not 7's but can play there better than croft, and better than having robshaw wasted there.for example dowson. Then you've got the guys who could play there one day, such as Kvesic, but clearly are nto ready yet.

I'm not totally mad though, I'd rather have 6. Croft 7. Robshaw then have someone not good enough, e.g 6. Robshaw 7. Everard.
 
Stephen Jones is now on the bench as James Hook is ill.
 
Interesting to read people talking about a lack of form from Chris Ashton.

Hasn't really played for Saints since December.
Two games in an England shirt... Barely touched the ball in either. Lets go easy on him shall we? Two games is hardly a drought!
 
Also, if Wales lose this, they're massive bottlers.

Nice...

After the numerous all conquering England sides that have missed out on a Grand slam against the unfancied Jocks, Paddy's & Taffs.
 
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