RBS 6 Nations - England vs Wales - 25/02/2012, 16:00

[bushytop]

It's because of little things like that why everyone... annoyed grunt!

 

[Saintjay]

It's because of little things like that why everyone... annoyed grunt!

Why what? lost me.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Why what? lost me.

Why he thinks everyone hates the English.

 

[SelimNiai]

Why what? lost me.

I think the "annoyed grunt" part should have been *annoyed grunt*

 

[Saintjay]

Why he thinks everyone hates the English.

Yeah that is what I thought shame he could just not say it. The WRU would never take the money if sky offered it to them.

 

[jack6161]

Apart from our new captain, who really ought to be the obvious choice at blindside. Players should be picked on form; you'd drop Ashton, who isn't on form for club or country, yet leave in Croft, who, by your own admission, isn't on form for club and has been utterly indifferent in an England jersey for the best part of two years.

He is athletically gifted, but way off the mark at the moment. He certainly hasn't earned his place in the starting lineup and it reeks of a lack of a viable alternative, as opposed to a well-deserved starting berth.

Yes I would drop Ashton too the bench. Sharples deserves a chance and Ashton has been playing poorly, blaming it on the ball he receives is just a no go, considering a year ago he didn't wait for the ball to come to him, he went to the ball. Yes it does reek of a viable alternative, but that is my point. Everyone is calling for Croft to be dropped when there is no one in his position at present time who is playing better than him. He might not be on form for his club, but why drop him on that basis, if he plays well for country (which he does) then there is no need to drop him! As well as that, drop him for who? No one at the moment.

England stand a chance, and I think Wales have gotten a bit to over-confident, and could be in for a crashing fall. England are yet to show their attacking potential, of which there is abundance. They expect to come to Twickenham and whoop England, and I don't think that is the way it will pan out at all. I mean for example, look at the RWC quarter-final, England were destined to win and then played badly and lost to France. I think if England can hold Wales at the break down, dominate the scrum, line out and break down, Wales' potent backs will not get the ball they want and need, and the whole Welsh contingent will just come crashing down. I'd be surprised if Farrell had few kicks to do, and I think there may just be a penalty try for Wales collapsing the scrum, or at least 1 yellow card in the game. I still tip England to win it despite them being the under dogs here, partly because I am biased and partly because I can see Wales (if they are to loose at all in the 6 nations) to loose here in Twickenham. I think it will be sort of a re run of England v Ireland last year, and a bitter blow for them. Can't wait for the game, and I am lucky enough to have tickets!

 

[bushytop]

Nearly spat out my pint... what the hell your QF has got to do with anything I don't know. England played badly in every game at the world cup so the French defeat wasn't any great surprise.

 

[Saintjay]

Nearly spat out my pint... what the hell your QF has got to do with anything I don't know. England played badly in every game at the world cup so the French defeat wasn't any great surprise.

Played badly and won the same amount of games as Wales, imagine what we could have done playing well <_<

 

[dullonien]

England stand a chance, and I think Wales have gotten a bit to over-confident, and could be in for a crashing fall. England are yet to show their attacking potential, of which there is abundance. They expect to come to Twickenham and whoop England, and I don't think that is the way it will pan out at all. I mean for example, look at the RWC quarter-final, England were destined to win and then played badly and lost to France. I think if England can hold Wales at the break down, dominate the scrum, line out and break down, Wales' potent backs will not get the ball they want and need, and the whole Welsh contingent will just come crashing down. I'd be surprised if Farrell had few kicks to do, and I think there may just be a penalty try for Wales collapsing the scrum, or at least 1 yellow card in the game. I still tip England to win it despite them being the under dogs here, partly because I am biased and partly because I can see Wales (if they are to loose at all in the 6 nations) to loose here in Twickenham. I think it will be sort of a re run of England v Ireland last year, and a bitter blow for them. Can't wait for the game, and I am lucky enough to have tickets!

What are you on about in regards the scrum? Why exactly do you think England can dominate the scrum and force a penalty try or yellow card out of us? We've got two of the best props in the world, with a further strong scrummaging prop on the bench. I'd say it's Wales who will get the upper hand here, although nothing significant.

That's also three big if's there, with only one of them being really achievable, that being possibly dominating the lineout. There's no chance England will dominate the scrum, and I see little chance of them dominating the breakdown, although quite likely Wales will.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Missed that "if we can dominate the scrum and the breakdown" - We're going up against probably the best propping partnerships in the world and one of the best openside flankers in the world.
If we can gain parity in either I'd be beyond happy.

Lineout could go either way, as neither team is performing very well there.

 

[jack6161]

Nearly spat out my pint... what the hell your QF has got to do with anything I don't know. England played badly in every game at the world cup so the French defeat wasn't any great surprise.

No but the French played worse. England went there expecting to win, and low and behold they lost.

What are you on about in regards the scrum? Why exactly do you think England can dominate the scrum and force a penalty try or yellow card out of us? We've got two of the best props in the world, with a further strong scrummaging prop on the bench. I'd say it's Wales who will get the upper hand here, although nothing significant.

That's also three big if's there, with only one of them being really achievable, that being possibly dominating the lineout. There's no chance England will dominate the scrum, and I see little chance of them dominating the breakdown, although quite likely Wales will.

No what I'm saying is that for England to win they will need to force Wales to have slow ball. That means dominating them physically all over the park, and the break down and scrum will play a major role in that.
Wales + quick ball = many tries
Wales + slow ball = chance of England winning

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

What are you on about in regards the scrum? Why exactly do you think England can dominate the scrum and force a penalty try or yellow card out of us? We've got two of the best props in the world, with a further strong scrummaging prop on the bench. I'd say it's Wales who will get the upper hand here, although nothing significant.

That's also three big if's there, with only one of them being really achievable, that being possibly dominating the lineout. There's no chance England will dominate the scrum, and I see little chance of them dominating the breakdown, although quite likely Wales will.

Definitely no chance of that by trying to match Wales at what they do very well, but it's true that if we can get go forward ball and win collisions we will make getting quicker ball easier and to some extent lessen the significance of the breakdown. There are ways to compensate for our lack of a proper 7, but we can't just hope that croft and robshaw will somehow dominate the breakdown.

I think the scrum will be completely even. I know Wales have fantastic props but not in such a way as to dominate anything. I'm going to say right now that Corbisiero Hartley and Cole are a partnership who will not be pushed around by any front 3 out there.

Wales deserve to go in as favourites. But what I do think is that there is some one-eyedness going on at the moment. I don't buy this view that Wales have better players. I'm sorry, but I don't.

 

[big ginger 8]

Jones and Jenkins are far better than Cole and Corbisero.

Also about quickball England have only 2 players who can guarantee go forward Morgan and Tuilagi so they'd really need to use them wisely to get quick ball.

 

[dullonien]

Definitely no chance of that by trying to match Wales at what they do very well, but it's true that if we can get go forward ball and win collisions we will make getting quicker ball easier and to some extent lessen the significance of the breakdown. There are ways to compensate for our lack of a proper 7, but we can't just hope that croft and robshaw will somehow dominate the breakdown.

I think the scrum will be completely even. I know Wales have fantastic props but not in such a way as to dominate anything. I'm going to say right now that Corbisiero Hartley and Cole are a partnership who will not be pushed around by any front 3 out there.

Wales deserve to go in as favourites. But what I do think is that there is some one-eyedness going on at the moment. I don't buy this view that Wales have better players. I'm sorry, but I don't.

Not quite sure where I'm being overly one-eyed. I said that there will be no significant advangate one way or the other in the scrum. As for the breakdown, yes the ruck becomes alot easier when on the front foot, but with our abundance of physical players all over the park, we're more likely to win the collisions. When we add three backrowers who all get through tons of work at the breakdown (all three have played at 7 for Wales at one time or another), and a Prop that plays like another flanker, I don't see why I'm being one-eyed in thinking we should have a significant advantage in the breakdown against a team with no dominant breakdown presence. Robshaw is a good player, but he's not an openside, and doesn't get over the ball all that well.

Edit. I think people need to calm down a little about calling people one-eyed or arrogant. I don't see a problem in people being passionate about a team that's playing well and believing they can win. I believe player for player Wales have a much better team than England at the moment, that isn't being one-eyed, that's just looking at the facts. Whether or not that translates into a dominant display is yet to be seen. There's been planty of times in the past that Wales have gone into games as severe underdogs and pulled a performance and victory from somewhere (Wales v England 2007 comes to mind), so I understand that better team doesn't always equal a win. I think Welsh supporters have a right to be confident for once, what's wrong with that?

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Not quite sure where I'm being overly one-eyed. I said that there will be no significant advangate one way or the other in the scrum. As for the breakdown, yes the ruck becomes alot easier when on the front foot, but with our abundance of physical players all over the park, we're more likely to win the collisions. When we add three backrowers who all get through tons of work at the breakdown (all three have played at 7 for Wales at one time or another), and a Prop that plays like another flanker, I don't see why I'm being one-eyed in thinking we should have a significant advantage in the breakdown against a team with no dominant breakdown presence. Robshaw is a good player, but he's not an openside, and doesn't get over the ball all that well.

Wasn't actually referring to you mate, was mainly talking about Toby faletau jones. I definitely think Wales will have breakdown dominance, without doubt! Just saying that we can help ourselves to mitigate that damage.

 

[dullonien]

Wasn't actually referring to you mate, was mainly talking about Toby faletau jones. I definitely think Wales will have breakdown dominance, without doubt! Just saying that we can help ourselves to mitigate that damage.

Sorry, bit difficult to tell when it was my post being quoted. Just ignore Toby Faletau Jones though. There are always people like him who are overly confident shall we say.

 

[Darwin]

How can you only say Slight haha. The only slight if anything would be in the 2nd row. Other than that, Wales at the moment are far better in every position, and such. Cuthbert apart from being inexperienced, suffered a head injury so that affected him against Ireland. This was also the case coming into that game, for others such as Priestland, and Roberts. I think, England will really step up, and it'll be about 2/3 points to either side, but with respect to England, if Wales don't win this then it will be seen as an embarassment. We (Wales) have always been there abouts, as SA and NZ know, losing by 1/2 points on consistent occasions, through our poor goal kicking. This is a potentially massive game in which Wales need to win to prove those critics wrong if you like. They also need to kick on and in the summer do a job on the Aussies.

Because I'm not a rampant Welsh supporter If Wales were 'far better' in every position they should win the same comfortably, not by just 2/3 points!

BTW: Does anyone know what the weather is forecast to be like?

 

[Saintjay]

Not quite sure where I'm being overly one-eyed. I said that there will be no significant advangate one way or the other in the scrum. As for the breakdown, yes the ruck becomes alot easier when on the front foot, but with our abundance of physical players all over the park, we're more likely to win the collisions. When we add three backrowers who all get through tons of work at the breakdown (all three have played at 7 for Wales at one time or another), and a Prop that plays like another flanker, I don't see why I'm being one-eyed in thinking we should have a significant advantage in the breakdown against a team with no dominant breakdown presence. Robshaw is a good player, but he's not an openside, and doesn't get over the ball all that well.

Edit. I think people need to calm down a little about calling people one-eyed or arrogant. I don't see a problem in people being passionate about a team that's playing well and believing they can win. I believe player for player Wales have a much better team than England at the moment, that isn't being one-eyed, that's just looking at the facts. Whether or not that translates into a dominant display is yet to be seen. There's been planty of times in the past that Wales have gone into games as severe underdogs and pulled a performance and victory from somewhere (Wales v England 2007 comes to mind), so I understand that better team doesn't always equal a win. I think Welsh supporters have a right to be confident for once, what's wrong with that?

Your not one eyed and I don't think it was aimed at you.

It was more the everyone hates England related post etc. When England fans are confident we get called arrogant and everyone hates us.

I don't agree on form that Wales has that many better players than England. Personaly I feel it would be about 50/50 or not far off. However being honest taking current form I can't support a case against the welsh players at the moment.

 

[Saintjay]

Because I'm not a rampant Welsh supporter If Wales were 'far better' in every position they should win the same comfortably, not by just 2/3 points!

BTW: Does anyone know what the weather is forecast to be like?

It won't be as mild as recent days but a pleasant afternoon in store weather-wise at Twickenham. With light winds and some sunshine, a very reasonable 11 or 12 degrees is expected. From the beeb.

 

[Draggs]

Teams added to first post.