RBS 6 Nations - England vs Ireland - 17/03/2012 - 17:00

[monkeypigeon]

Where's that gobshite who was dissing Earlsy gone?


Em, this hasn't changed my perspective on the Irish team. We all know that if Court ever came on it was game over. More Kidney idiocy for persisting with him. I said after the world cup (possibly even before it) that I'd be watching Ireland play with curiosity rather than passion untill there was seriuous changes in the players and staff so no surprise to myself when I felt rather indifferent come 7pm yesterday.

The match itself, well the rain and scrummaging sort of ruined it. If I actually gave a toss I wouldn't find it overy disheartening, see as besides the scrum there wasn't much difference between the teams (that said, the game was one giant scrum).

Well done to all the winners this weekend. Back to club rugby...

Oh, by the way, I called it as England by 22 just before the match...not far off eh?


Oh, and GG, Varley is a Hooker. Archer is the crap prop you're thinking of.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Out of interest, if people were to pick their squads for touring Kiwiland today what would they go with? I'd say:

Props: Mike Ross, Cian Healy, Jamie Hagan, Paddy McAllister
Hookers: Rory Best, Sean Cronin, Mike Sherry
Second Rows: Paul O'Connell, Donncha Ryan, Dan Tuohy, Devin Toner
Backrows: Stephen Ferris, Sean O'Brien, Peter O'Mahony, Chris Henry, Jamie Heaslip, Rhys Ruddock
Scrum Halves: Eoin Reddan, Paul Marshall, Conor Murray
Out Halves: Johnny Sexton, Ronan O'Gara, Ian Madigan
Centres: Brian O'Driscoll, Fergus McFadden, Darren Cave
Outside Backs: Rob Kearney, Luke Fitzgerald, Tommy Bowe, Keith Earls, Andrew Trimble, Craig Gilroy

32 man touring squad would be enough in my opinion. One might argue that it's a conservative selection, but our first team is pretty settled, albeit playing poorly. There's plenty of youth in there with only 4 players over 30. With three tests to play I'd like to see all of our locks involved at some point, as well as all of the back rows and scrum halves. I don't know if we'll be playing any midweek games, but if we are I would like to see Sherry, Gilroy, McAllister and Madigan start in each of them. Hagan must get at least 40 minutes of test rugby.

I'd clear out the entire current coaching panel out and look to get a new set up in place asap. I don't know if having any more than an interim guy in place would be feasible though give time constraints. Ideally I'd like to see Schmidt involved with the backs and Foley with the forwards.

 

[coonor]

Out of interest, if people were to pick their squads for touring Kiwiland today what would they go with? I'd say:

Props: Mike Ross, Cian Healy, Jamie Hagan, Paddy McAllister
Hookers: Rory Best, Sean Cronin, Mike Sherry
Second Rows: Paul O'Connell, Donncha Ryan, Dan Tuohy, Devin Toner
Backrows: Stephen Ferris, Sean O'Brien, Peter O'Mahony, Chris Henry, Jamie Heaslip, Rhys Ruddock
Scrum Halves: Eoin Reddan, Paul Marshall, Conor Murray
Out Halves: Johnny Sexton, Ronan O'Gara, Ian Madigan
Centres: Brian O'Driscoll, Fergus McFadden, Darren Cave
Outside Backs: Rob Kearney, Luke Fitzgerald, Tommy Bowe, Keith Earls, Andrew Trimble, Craig Gilroy

32 man touring squad would be enough in my opinion. One might argue that it's a conservative selection, but our first team is pretty settled, albeit playing poorly. There's plenty of youth in there with only 4 players over 30. With three tests to play I'd like to see all of our locks involved at some point, as well as all of the back rows and scrum halves. I don't know if we'll be playing any midweek games, but if we are I would like to see Sherry, Gilroy, McAllister and Madigan start in each of them. Hagan must get at least 40 minutes of test rugby.

I'd clear out the entire current coaching panel out and look to get a new set up in place asap. I don't know if having any more than an interim guy in place would be feasible though give time constraints. Ideally I'd like to see Schmidt involved with the backs and Foley with the forwards.

I completely agree with that. I think thats a really balanced squad and this tour will be about replacing a few players who should have been replaced in the 6N but more importantly it will be about developing a game plan that fits our side. I don't believe we our players our poor, I just think our team is poor and that has to come down to a game plan and style that isn't playing to our strengths.

 

[big ginger 8]

Just to say Ed Byrne had a very good game today and Dan Leavy definitely is another fine flanker on the production line.

Feic I'd have pretty much the same squad but depending on how the rest of the season goes I might like McGrath involved (as long as it stays as 22 someone has to be able to play both sides) and Dom Ryan instead of Ruddock.

 

[Feicarsinn]

I can see where you're coming from with regards to McGrath, but as far as I'm concerned he's still far too raw to be getting an Ireland shirt. Hagan on the other hand has a bundle of ML experience under his belt and has had some decent HC time too. Next season he'll be on and off with Ross at Leinster and will be getting a very significant amount of game time (I'd imagine that he'll play a good deal more than Ross). I just don't think McGrath is ready yet.

The reasoning behind Ruddock was that I'd like to give O'Brien the 8 shirt for the tour which would leave us a bit short at 6, a position Ruddock excels in.

 

[big ginger 8]

I can see where you're coming from with regards to McGrath, but as far as I'm concerned he's still far too raw to be getting an Ireland shirt. Hagan on the other hand has a bundle of ML experience under his belt and has had some decent HC time too. Next season he'll be on and off with Ross at Leinster and will be getting a very significant amount of game time (I'd imagine that he'll play a good deal more than Ross). I just don't think McGrath is ready yet.

The reasoning behind Ruddock was that I'd like to give O'Brien the 8 shirt for the tour which would leave us a bit short at 6, a position Ruddock excels in.

Yeah thats fair enough thats why I said depending on the rest of the season I presume he'll captain the "A" team possibly to the final and if Henke is leaving he may end up starting a few more and on the bench for some of the bigger ones.

I know what your saying about 6 but I think Ryan has the potential to start 7. Obviously Ferris would start 6 and I'd see PO'M as more of a 6 than a 7. Also I guess I'm nowhere near as unhappy as most with Heaslip.

Btw has anyone heard anything about a rumored heart attack for Mike Ross? If it's true hope he's ok.

 

[Feicarsinn]

First I've heard of it. Horrible news for the guy if true, and for Irish rugby.


BG8, you'd probably know more about it than me, so how good is this Tadgh Furlong guy looking? By the sounds of it he could be a serious prop.

 

[big ginger 8]

First I've heard of it. Horrible news for the guy if true, and for Irish rugby.


BG8, you'd probably know more about it than me, so how good is this Tadgh Furlong guy looking? By the sounds of it he could be a serious prop.

I think it's very hard to judge props at u20 level but yeah he looks good he's a Rory Best type player in the loose from what I've seen and his technique looks good. Usually scrummaging is more about size at u20 level thanks to the physical mismatches that often appear. But I'd be pretty hopeful for him.

 

[Peat]

We all know that if Court ever came on it was game over. More Kidney idiocy for persisting with him.

Who would you replace him with, bearing in mind the player has to be able to cover both sides? Court clearly struggles at TH internationally, but he's still a better TH than quite a few of the specialists at ML/HC level for Ulster (better than Cronin and Macklin, on a par with Fitzpatrick, clearly behind Afoa). And I'd say Ulster are quite possibly Ireland's strongest scrummaging province - a lot of which is down to Court being a very competent loosehead at ML/HC level. I saw someone suggest on another thread Hagan should have gone to Ulster, gods knows I wouldn't want him here, don't think he's much better than Fitzpatrick if any and neither is anything like as good as Afoa. I won't deny for one moment Court's poor at this level as a rule, but I can't see who's better and Irish out there.

Tbh, I'm wondering if people should be looking solely at the front row. I remember reading - possibly here, possibly PR - that the reason DOC was getting the nod over Ryan was he was a better scrummager. I laughed at the time, but now if I'm wondering if there might have been ought to it. Donnacha Ryan is not even 17 stone. That's incredibly light for an international lock, and neither O'Callaghan or O'Connell are much bigger. I might be barking up the wrong tree but it can't be helping to have that little behind them. Scotland's front row are mince (Court & Co smashed them up big time playing against Embra) but stick Hamilton and Gray behind them and they're a different prospect...

 

[coonor]

I think the reason for the dominance was more down to the strength of England's scrum rather than ours being purely weak. Now obviously the Irish scrum was poor and whether that is to do with fatigue after 4 games straight or poor technique is hard to tell but I do think it was more of a blip than anything else. I think scrum battles are now very much won on the day rather than teams simply having a strong scrum. Ireland simply had a very bad day at the office and with a lack of quality replacements we could not fix the problem. The main point is to make sure that never happens again but we should not take anything away from England's scrum which obviously they have worked very hard on.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Yes, more credit should be given to the English scrum. They were bloody excellent, especially Corbisiero.

 

[lucky number 7]

What on earth...where you hear about ross BG8....

 

[big ginger 8]

Alleged biting incident video

From the looks of it I'd say it's possible as it's a bit delayed from the actual clearout.

 

[SelimNiai]

Alleged biting incident video

Who am I supposed to be looking at, can't find anything

 

[big ginger 8]

Who am I supposed to be looking at, can't find anything

Watch Ferris' right arm and his reaction. He jerks back is if stung or...bitten.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

What on earth...where you hear about ross BG8....

I also want to find this out and I think BG8 seemed to have missed it.
I can't find anything on Google.

 

[SelimNiai]

Hmm, seems a bit speculative. There could have been many things that caused Ferris to retract his arm and especially since he himself can't see whats occurin' in that ruck. Where was this first raised?

 

[monkeypigeon]

Who would you replace him with, bearing in mind the player has to be able to cover both sides? Court clearly struggles at TH internationally, but he's still a better TH than quite a few of the specialists at ML/HC level for Ulster (better than Cronin and Macklin, on a par with Fitzpatrick, clearly behind Afoa). And I'd say Ulster are quite possibly Ireland's strongest scrummaging province - a lot of which is down to Court being a very competent loosehead at ML/HC level. I saw someone suggest on another thread Hagan should have gone to Ulster, gods knows I wouldn't want him here, don't think he's much better than Fitzpatrick if any and neither is anything like as good as Afoa. I won't deny for one moment Court's poor at this level as a rule, but I can't see who's better and Irish out there.

Tbh, I'm wondering if people should be looking solely at the front row. I remember reading - possibly here, possibly PR - that the reason DOC was getting the nod over Ryan was he was a better scrummager. I laughed at the time, but now if I'm wondering if there might have been ought to it. Donnacha Ryan is not even 17 stone. That's incredibly light for an international lock, and neither O'Callaghan or O'Connell are much bigger. I might be barking up the wrong tree but it can't be helping to have that little behind them. Scotland's front row are mince (Court & Co smashed them up big time playing against Embra) but stick Hamilton and Gray behind them and they're a different prospect...

Well firstly he clearly can't cover both sides of the scrum, as evidenced by yesterday. And it's daft that the international rules haven't been updated to 23 man squads.

What I'd have done is bring any other Prop with potential rather than Court who we all know is nothing more than a quick-fix. If we're gonna have a mediocre prop on the bench it may as well be one that someone deems to have potential.

 

[big ginger 8]

I know I'm puzzled. Seems to have been a big mix up. Tagdh Beirne of the u20's heard something about it and he goes out with my cousin who told my uncle who told my mum. No it seem that either he got mixed up or there was a breakdown in communication and he was probably talking about Muamba. Horrible news about him obviously but thank God nothing so bads happened to Ross. I was confused and dumbfounded myself.

 

[Robert Prosser]

I know I'm puzzled. Seems to have been a big mix up. Tagdh Beirne of the u20's heard something about it and he goes out with my cousin who told my uncle who told my mum. No it seem that either he got mixed up or there was a breakdown in communication and he was probably talking about Muamba. Horrible news about him obviously but thank God nothing so bads happened to Ross. I was confused and dumbfounded myself.

All thats missing there is the dogs wife's cat!!!