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Premiership Rugby 23/24 - Round 10

Heard on Eggchasers podcast(huge pinch of salt!) We are massively under the cap like £1.8m under. Hard to believe but given how many will be on academy contracts/first contracts, also Wabosi/Fisilau im sure we got cheap given the circumstances.
Not hard to believe at all IMO. So many of our squad are on their first pro contracts. How many of our squad are going to be on substantial cash? Slade, Gray (who is marquee), Sio… who else? Pretty sure Tshiunza and Jenkins are still on very low/academy kinda money.
 
Not hard to believe at all IMO. So many of our squad are on their first pro contracts. How many of our squad are going to be on substantial cash? Slade, Gray (who is marquee), Sio… who else? Pretty sure Tshiunza and Jenkins are still on very low/academy kinda money.
Under the cap enough to raise their salary next season and still be under the cap.
 
It's going up by 2 mil anyway isn't it? Obviously we'll have some resignings to make which will increase a few salaries but we could well be £3+ million under the cap next season.
Rumour that Grey is off(somewhere) meaning a marquee is free, Slade to go into it? I wouldnt be agaonst a big name signing at 10, skinner is good but im not sold. Weve often signed big name scrumhalves so who knows.

But id say forwards, centres and an back three are looking good. Id say Halfbacks sre our weakest.
 
I'd just like TNT to justify their 'tug of war' narrative, really.

No danger of England taking a punt on talent then developing and improving the weaknesses in his game afterwards.
People on Twatter now playing the English granny (or whoever) card; it seems no-one really knows.

He's definitely going to be in a Wales squad early next year anyway, but I'd love to know the actual reason he could play for England.
 
Not hard to believe at all IMO. So many of our squad are on their first pro contracts. How many of our squad are going to be on substantial cash? Slade, Gray (who is marquee), Sio… who else? Pretty sure Tshiunza and Jenkins are still on very low/academy kinda money.
I'd believe it if they're stating that's under the maximum salary cap of £6.4m (what you can spend with incentives and exclusions) but it's hard to believe they would be £1.8m below the £5m cap. A lot of the savings will get eaten up quickly by players coming off academy contracts.
 
People on Twatter now playing the English granny (or whoever) card; it seems no-one really knows.

He's definitely going to be in a Wales squad early next year anyway, but I'd love to know the actual reason he could play for England.
From everything I've seen, he considers himself to be Welsh and given he was developed by the Welsh system, I'd prefer he sticks with them.

Wales and Scotland are constantly sniffing around any tenuously eligible players. We don't need to stoop to that level IMO.
 
From everything I've seen, he considers himself to be Welsh and given he was developed by the Welsh system, I'd prefer he sticks with them.

Wales and Scotland are constantly sniffing around any tenuously eligible players. We don't need to stoop to that level IMO.
Precisely.

I can't find anything that even remotely suggests he's eligible for England; everything suggests he's Welsh... yet there's this huge 'which nation will he choose?' narrative.

It seems to be a thing that the media have made up. As you might have gathered, it really (disproportionately) irritates me.
 
It seems to be a thing that the media have made up. As you might have gathered, it really (disproportionately) irritates me.
It's also, in turn, set social media off with every other nation under the sun slagging off England for poaching
 
Exeter will be massively under the cap.
But how much they will be able to spend on extra will be interesting
Reality is there will be a reason they are not up to the cap now.


Mostly I reckon because they know this group contract renewals will be going up a lot.


Slade and Gray contracts are up end of this season, for example.
Slade will be a massive target espcially on his current form and if England don't pick up he's going to cost Exeter.
 
It's also, in turn, set social media off with every other nation under the sun slagging off England for poaching
How many 'poached' players did we have in our RWC squad? I can only think of Ribbans. Billy Vunipola and Bevan Rodd were eligible for other nations but were unquestionably developed by English clubs. Even if they are included, come the 6 Nations, it may be 0.

Any of the home nations mudslinging need to give their heads a wobble. France had no problem picking Willemse and are doing the same with Meafou.

I'd argue that only SA and Argentina are 'clean' when it comes to poaching players.
 
Judging by his post match interview I think it's safe to say Gats has been in touch and told him it's likely he's going to be called up for the 6N.
 
From everything I've seen, he considers himself to be Welsh and given he was developed by the Welsh system, I'd prefer he sticks with them.

Wales and Scotland are constantly sniffing around any tenuously eligible players. We don't need to stoop to that level IMO.
Well yeah, massive player pool, loads of money, amazing infrastructure, private schools coming out of your arse. Of course you don't need to.
 
Most of which is a bit of a myth. Rugby is a pretty niche sport in England and the player pool of truly elite players isn't as big as it's made out to be.

I'm not against the other home nations exploiting the rules, but I think Scotland go about it in a very unpalatable way. 'Promising' a player who has already been regularly involved with England a place in the 23 if he defects is not cool. It's basically a bribe.
 
Most of which is a bit of a myth. Rugby is a pretty niche sport in England and the player pool of truly elite players isn't as big as it's made out to be.

I'm not against the other home nations exploiting the rules, but I think Scotland go about it in a very unpalatable way. 'Promising' a player who has already been regularly involved with England a place in the 23 if he defects is not cool. It's basically a bribe.
It's not a myth at all, sure it's a niche sport but you have tens of millions of people. You have, when I last looked, almost 400k registered players to say Wales' 80 odd thousand. You can say how many of those 400k are elite but then you can say the same for the 80 thousand Wales players. Richest union. Fact. Top 3 registered players in world. Fact. Best infrastructure. Private schools etc etc. but the thing that is most important is that England is a very rich country with a plethora of opportunities off the rugby pitch which naturally attracts lots of immigrants both on this isle and abroad so you're naturally going to reap the benefit of this just on the lucky basis your country is rich but it's alright for England but these other smaller nations are stooping to low level just for trying to even the playing field a bit. Its a bit rich if you ask me. Its akin to someone who's on £1k pm who usually shops at Asda but has a Waitrose voucher so goes into the shop but then Waitrose shoppers are all like "look at this peasant trying to mix it with us doesn't he know his place theres fruit and veg at Asda you know" your view would not see any development of any kid given to poorer smaller nations and would just see the continual growth of the big boys and you Scotlands, Wales', Italy's etc etc can **** off.

Out of interest when is the cut off for when development is aligned to a country? so for instance if a player starts at 6 and trains in one country till 11 but then moves to England at 12 and is developed by them who, in your view, gets to claim they've developed that kid?
 
If smaller nations want to poach, let them. I just personally find it galling that there are huge double standards with those same nations jumping on England's back at the first sniff of a foreign born player playing for us. Hell I've seen it go as far as to claim a player born in England, raised in England, been through the English system and playing for an English club is a poach because one of their parents wasn't English, and it wasn't even a joke.

More more racist among them have even tried to claim Itoje was a poach.
 
@Welsh Exile

I feel like you're deliberately missing the point. I literally said 'I'm not against the other home nations exploiting the rules'. I also want and expect Feyi-Waboso to play for Wales.

My issue is with the attempt to approach players like Fin Smith who are very clearly on the radar of the England senior team and effectively bribe them. That's scummy if you ask me.

In answer to your question, if a player has come through youth ranks with an English club and is born and raised in England, I'd regard them as a product of our system. If that player is dual qualified, I resent the 'race to the bottom' where the likes of Scotland will offer a cap before the player is ready just to capture them. I would only really count development in a professional system. So in your example, that kid would be a product of the English system. However, if they were born and raised in the other country, then that doesn't make them English. I'd have no issue with them declaring for the land of their birth. Harry Randall would be a good example in reverse. He definitely benefited from being in the Welsh system but is English by birth.
 
Yeah that fair and I probably agree with a lot of what @BPM says. No one likes the rules being taken the **** out of but they've changed residency back to 5 and while agree with you about people being hypocritical or whatever but I also don't like people recognising they have about a 10 meter head start in a race against most other mentions. That's no one's fault but just saying unlucky and calling out other nations doesn't sit well with me and as I say I dont like the Scotland approach for example but would I rather have a competitive Scotland in rugby? Most definitely
 
The Scotland age grade sides are consistently crap. That strongly suggests to me that the Scots would rather try to reap the benefit of other unions' work than work on improving their own infrastructure. I appreciate there are limitations with only 2 pro sides, but if they wanted to, I think there would be plenty of opportunities for them to improve their pathways.
 
@Welsh Exile

I feel like you're deliberately missing the point. I literally said 'I'm not against the other home nations exploiting the rules'. I also want and expect Feyi-Waboso to play for Wales.

My issue is with the attempt to approach players like Fin Smith who are very clearly on the radar of the England senior team and effectively bribe them. That's scummy if you ask me.

In answer to your question, if a player has come through youth ranks with an English club and is born and raised in England, I'd regard them as a product of our system. If that player is dual qualified, I resent the 'race to the bottom' where the likes of Scotland will offer a cap before the player is ready just to capture them. I would only really count development in a professional system. So in your example, that kid would be a product of the English system. However, if they were born and raised in the other country, then that doesn't make them English. I'd have no issue with them declaring for the land of their birth. Harry Randall would be a good example in reverse. He definitely benefited from being in the Welsh system but is English by birth.
I don't think you can put a limit on development. For example, even if you're born and raised in England you might of been raised by a semi pro or/ex pro rugby player from another country who puts in lots of 1 on 1 time into that kids development that will go a much longer way to seeing that kid potentially make it further down the line but that might have noting to do with mini club he goes to in England and the coaches there. Or alternatively you might go through a 2 year spell somewhere that really sees your development improve and that could be down to an individual or whatever no an academy or club.

For sure if you've spent 90% plus of your time in a country and used that system and have come from no rugby background I think it's fair to say your a product of that system but I don't think development is as easy as putting a number on it.
 

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