[2025 Six Nations] England vs France - 08/02/25

[Becca]

Well I shall be watching through my fingers at this rate

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So…..

The least experienced by a mile of our 3 centrally contracted 10s. Riiiiight. Everyone's got to get experience, but this could be lion's den stuff

An experienced, small, 10 at 15 where he's previously been used as a speed bump. That's before Saturday when stopping Aki would have been difficult, but most would have expected a much better attempt.

An experienced 15 on the wing. An experienced 15 who cops a load of flak for his speed, agility and one on one defence at the best of times.

I just hope Rumour Control's been out of the loop on this one.

I'm also fully expecting at least one change in the back row, possibly 2.

 

[IT157]

So…..

The least experienced by a mile of our 3 centrally contracted 10s. Riiiiight. Everyone's got to get experience, but this could be lion's den stuff

An experienced, small, 10 at 15 where he's previously been used as a speed bump. That's before Saturday when stopping Aki would have been difficult, but most would have expected a much better attempt.

An experienced 15 on the wing. An experienced 15 who cops a load of flak for his speed, agility and one on one defence at the best of times.

I just hope Rumour Control's been out of the loop on this one.

I'm also fully expecting at least one change in the back row, possibly 2.

These rumours are concerning.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Going to predict that England win or only lose out to one piece of Dupont / Penaud / LBB (take your pick) magic with that axis.

Then continue it v Scotland and get totally exposed.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Which is fine, but doesn't justify a central contract, the whole purpose of which is to ensure your players are in top shape come match day.

That was because if he went to France there is no stand out back up if one or even both of the Smith's got injured

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Could be inspired, could be a nightmare
He's inevitably gonna play Steward on the wing, which is crazy when you've got Roebuck who is the winger version of Steward already there

Kinda glad I'm missing this now - I missed the walloping two years ago and watched it the next morning and it was much more enjoyable viewing already having had the plaster pulled off by knowing the score

I'm not sure he will play Steward there.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Finn over Marcus is a solution looking for a problem. Just bizarre when M has been 95% of our creativity and doesn't deserve being messed about

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Any talk of Ford back at 10 is ridiculous as it's a change completely of the way we play.

Let's keep a similar team with one or two changes if needed and work on improving rather than tearing things up.

 

[BPM]

So…..

The least experienced by a mile of our 3 centrally contracted 10s. Riiiiight. Everyone's got to get experience, but this could be lion's den stuff

An experienced, small, 10 at 15 where he's previously been used as a speed bump. That's before Saturday when stopping Aki would have been difficult, but most would have expected a much better attempt.

An experienced 15 on the wing. An experienced 15 who cops a load of flak for his speed, agility and one on one defence at the best of times.

I just hope Rumour Control's been out of the loop on this one.

I'm also fully expecting at least one change in the back row, possibly 2.

That's just isn't accurate. He's a pretty good defender.

If you are now classing him as a 'speed bump' because he got bumped off by a centre whose made a career out of doing that to his opponents, plenty of other players need to join that category.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

That's just isn't accurate. He's a pretty good defender.

If you are now classing him as a 'speed bump' because he got bumped off by a centre whose made a career out of doing that to his opponents, plenty of other players need to join that category.

It's one of the biggest red flags that people don't really know what they're talking about with Marcus tbh - "he can't tackle" and "he can't control a game" are assumptions based on stereotypes of exciting flair players rather than anything about him in particular.

He's not Cooper and he's not Cipriani.


(I'm feeling in a fighty mood, so come for me)

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

That's just isn't accurate. He's a pretty good defender.

If you are now classing him as a 'speed bump' because he got bumped off by a centre whose made a career out of doing that to his opponents, plenty of other players need to join that category.

Think you're misunderstanding where I'm coming from. I agree, he's a very brave defender and I've regularly said as much.

My point was that he took some fearful physical hammering in his first outings at FB. Can't remember which specific games but he did take a bit of a battering.

I'm not hanging it on Aki at the weekend at all, although he should have done better to at least slow him down.

If my use of 'speed bump' you thought I was implying he was a revolving door or coward, I totally wasn't. But at FB you do get exposed and it's simple fact that would quite often be against bigger guys than he is moving at pace. That makes it difficult for him plus playing there only infrequently he would still have to learn the nuances of positioning.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Think you're misunderstanding where I'm coming from. I agree, he's a very brave defender and I've regularly said as much.

My point was that he took some fearful physical hammering in his first outings at FB. Can't remember which specific games but he did take a bit of a battering.

I'm not hanging it on Aki at the weekend at all, although he should have done better to at least slow him down.

If my use of 'speed bump' you thought I was implying he was a revolving door or coward, I totally wasn't. But at FB you do get exposed and it's simple fact that would quite often be against bigger guys than he is moving at pace. That makes it difficult for him plus playing there only infrequently he would still have to learn the nuances of positioning.

And if you're looking for a case study in how even the classiest non specialist can be made to look an idiot out of position in the back 3 you only have to go back 3 iterations of this fixture when Fickou was on the wing for France and we had him on toast.

 

[Dean Cooperfield-West]

I think we have this one in the bag. They looked beatable against Wales last week. Unless they go up a few gears they're losing to us and the Irish

 

[The Seeker]

France will be without N'tamack (presumably) Fickou, Danty, Ollivon and Flament. Penaud has returned to the squad, but who knows whether he's fit.

What's to worry about?

On that note, I've got England in this match.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Times reporting the 2 Smiths although silent on the wings.

Back row likely to be T Curry, Earl and Willis. T Curry in modified training with his hip and if he can't make it, likely to be replaced by Chessum, which seems……inconsistent.

 

[Geordie]

Times reporting the 2 Smiths although silent on the wings.

Back row likely to be T Curry, Earl and Willis. T Curry in modified training with his hip and if he can't make it, likely to be replaced by Chessum, which seems……inconsistent.

Surely just replace him with Ben?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Finn over Marcus is a solution looking for a problem. Just bizarre when M has been 95% of our creativity and doesn't deserve being messed about

And this probably wouldn't have happened at all if Furbank hadn't got hurt, but he has.

In many respects it's a positive move, acknowledging M as our most creative attacker and giving him the open space he relishes. But as we've said there are potential downsides - he plays there less for his club than Watson ever did…..

While M has been at the heart of most good things we've done, the midfield has generally been pretty clunky. Maybe that's just because we've got the wrong centre combo, but that's who SB seems intent on playing. F may be a little more conventional which the centres may find easier to read and gel with. At the end of the day it's about how combinations work and you never know until you try.

I can see the rationale, but I'm not in favour.

 

[Geordie]

So purely on the rumours...nothing factual..it could be

1 Genge
2 LCD
3 Stuart
4 Itoje
5 Martin
6 T. Curry
7 Earl
8 Willis

9 Mitchell
10 Fin Smith
11 Freeman
12 Slade
13 Lawrence
14 Steward
15 Marcus Smith

 

[spartan32]

So purely on the rumours...nothing factual..it could be

1 Genge
2 LCD
3 Stuart
4 Itoje
5 Martin
6 T. Curry
7 Earl
8 Willis

9 Mitchell
10 Fin Smith
11 Freeman
12 Slade
13 Lawrence
14 Steward
15 Marcus Smith

This pack makes sense, especially the back row. Smith at FB and Steward on the wing is madness!! Steward is not a winger, and when you have proper pace available to fill Murleys slot then you have to use it. Anyone remember the disaster that was Manu on the wing!! Marcus would of course do his best at FB, and when has played there he's look ok, this line up just feels like we are trying to play France at their own game, which they play much better. We cant really hope to outplay the French with ball in hand. Maybe down the line, but we are not ready for that. We need to slow this down, kick really well, be solid as hell in defence, and choke the life out of them, while maintaining the ability to take chances when they come. Really hoping this rumour is just smoke and mirrors!

 

[Wasps92]

I actually think England will win.

Having just seen that Borthwick plans on playing Marcus Smith at 15 I've changed my mind.

Hopefully this Six Nations is Borthwick's last.