Premiership Rugby 22/23 - Rd 1

[Geordie]

Remind me why Radwaan is not in the England starting 15

Because he has a lot of competition...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Remind me why Radwaan is not in the England starting 15

Lots of competition, he had a few defensive slip ups last year, Eddie gonna Eddie. He'll likely be in contention in the future but being a good winger is more than just out and out pace. Whilst it looks good watching they blasting past everyone else, they are surprisingly few times they get to simply get in a sprint race with the opposition wingers, at least in the England setup we don't often produce that sort of space for our wingers. He'll have to shown strength in the kick chase and be good in the air.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Surprised crossdale caught up with lrz there

Read variously that LRZ had a broken or unlaced boot.

 

[will311293]

Read variously that LRZ had a broken or unlaced boot.

TBF Crossdale is pretty pacey but did look like Harris and LRZ were talking about a broken bootlace. IF we hadn't chosen to use Spink and had stuck it up the jumper that play, at 28-0 pending conversion, game was over.

 

[will311293]

Also anyone see Neil Annett got sent off for Bath without even coming on? Got sent off as a sub

 

[BPM]

Lots of competition, he had a few defensive slip ups last year, Eddie gonna Eddie. He'll likely be in contention in the future but being a good winger is more than just out and out pace. Whilst it looks good watching they blasting past everyone else, they are surprisingly few times they get to simply get in a sprint race with the opposition wingers, at least in the England setup we don't often produce that sort of space for our wingers. He'll have to shown strength in the kick chase and be good in the air.

All of this. Plus, by his own admission, he had a poor 21/22 season.

I didn't think his try was anything particular special anyway? We screwed up clearing a ruck, he got passed a loose ball with no-one in front of him and a scrambling cover defence who had been expecting to join the next phase of attack. I'd have expected slower wingers than him to finish that off TBH.

 

[Geordie]

Radwans form last season was due to the Falcons...not his own. It must be soul destroying playing in a side whos defence and attack are woeful.

In attack Radwan was regularly left with multiple defenders on him or taking the ball standing still due to our woeful attack. In defence he was often left totally exposed.

Radwan is a solid defender, there is no debate there...but when you are exposed as he has been the very best defensive wingers will struggle.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think Radwan's form was bad enough to warrant him being completely dropped out of the EPS,
I think the biggest thing that counted against him was covering only one position - in EJ's side if you play only one position you better bea starter (and even then he still likes the cover), and his form wasn't enough to fight off players who will also cover 13 or 15 for a squad position

 

[BPM]

Radwans form last season was due to the Falcons...not his own. It must be soul destroying playing in a side whos defence and attack are woeful.

In attack Radwan was regularly left with multiple defenders on him or taking the ball standing still due to our woeful attack. In defence he was often left totally exposed.

Radwan is a solid defender, there is no debate there...but when you are exposed as he has been the very best defensive wingers will struggle.

Perhaps, but he's also publicly stated that he wasn't 100% on his game and also said that he found it hard with the back and forth travelling between training with England and Falcons.

As I see it, Radwan's attacking game is very good. His defence, positioning and aerial work are all OK - not bad, but not notably good. When you have players like Tommy Freeman who is scoring more tries and is better at the areas Radwan is weak in, it's easy to see why he's not higher up the pecking order. I think he's probably competing with Arundell for an x-factor spot (and currently losing).

 

[Which Tyler]

Also anyone see Neil Annett got sent off for Bath without even coming on? Got sent off as a sub

Full match is up on PRTV (after being told it wouldn't be) so I'm planning to watch this afternoon. But I gather it was for getting involved from the bench, rather than anything he particularly did once involved - so should be a straight 1 match ban for idiocy.

I know there have been complaints of skullduggery that a TMO would have called back - but there always are these complaints, even with a TMO; so I want to see for myself.

Opinion seems to generally have been that Bath were mildly the better team, but a couple of lapses of concentration / moments of brilliance from Genge made up the difference.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Perhaps, but he's also publicly stated that he wasn't 100% on his game and also said that he found it hard with the back and forth travelling between training with England and Falcons.

As I see it, Radwan's attacking game is very good. His defence, positioning and aerial work are all OK - not bad, but not notably good. When you have players like Tommy Freeman who is scoring more tries and is better at the areas Radwan is weak in, it's easy to see why he's not higher up the pecking order. I think he's probably competing with Arundell for an x-factor spot (and currently losing).

Probably more than any other position our view of wings is shaped by the way the team plays. How would Arundell or Freeman have looked at last year's Falcons? How would Radwan have looked at Saints or Irish?

 

[Which Tyler]

Right, watch Bath v Bristol now - only going to comment on stuff I think would go to the TMO had he existed. I'll ignore defensive line being offside at every breakdown, as that really ought to be the same for both teams.
I apologise in advance if this post is going to come across as critical of the ref - but then, that's kinda the point of it.
Times on the PRL video, as obviously, there's no match clock

0:53 - forward pass from Sinckler to Genge, resulting in the first try to Genge. Ref is un-sighted as Bath's close defense rushes past him. It's a brilliant line, good hands from both, and identifies a slight dogleg in the Bath defense (which I'd put down to a lack of understanding between McNally and Cloete); but it's still forward, and a TMO would still likely have called that back.

4:00 - mess of collecting a high ball, Bath emerge with it - no idea what's going on from the 1 angle available. Ref is well positioned, but I suspect a TMO would have a look in the background whilst play continues.

6:52 - Bristol player runs into his own man before setting a ruck - immaterial, and nothing comes from it, but I'm amazed the ref doesn't even mention it. Probably more one for Bath's skipper to mention than the TMO.

12:00 - Bristol wing involving himself on the wrong side of a ruck - pretty sure the ref sees it and regards it as immaterial as the ball bobbles out, but is clean away from Spencer - may have been looked at as the recipient of Spencer's pass then has help from an offside man - ref allows both to go, but wonder if he'd have done the same if TMO had been there.
ETA: probably not, as ref has a word with McNally next time the ball goes dead. Obviously considered both to have been accidental and immaterial.

35:50 - Boyce carries into the tackle, and for my money, he gets his timing wrong to push the tackler off, and it becomes a forearm smash - I'd want a TMO to have a look at that. PRTV is not convenient for multiple watches though.

36:19 - Afters at a ruck, the ball is out, and the camera pans away, but an extra Genge is joining the ruck after the ball is gone, and has been called out - he should be helping his scrum half not bundling into the Bath man on the floor (it's Boyce with Genge and 2 other Bristol players, so I wonder if this is payback for 30 seconds earlier). This is exactly what a TMO is there for - foul play is happening, probably by both teams.

38:34 - Genge is choking Attwood in a maul, and emerges with Attwood's scrum cap as a prize - I like to think a TMO would have a word about that, but equally, I like to think Ellis wouldn't have tried it if a TMO had been there. But that's probably me showing why I'm a back, not a forward, Attwood himself doesn't seem particularly fussed about it.

38:51 - Brilliant by Bristol for Morahan's try. No way a TMO doesn't get involved in sorting out the scuffles. Annett trots across and gets involved, well deserving his red - It's stupid, but not the sort I'm unhappy about as a fan - he's helping his mate who's "fighting" 4 on his own, and doing so before the officials establish any control over things. I think this has been brewing since 35:50, and a stronger ref wouldn't have let it reach this point - a TMO would definitely have helped by looking at those 2 incidents 30 seconds apart.

43:54 - Another scuffle - well, 2 scuffles, and again, this is the point of the TMO - and again, this is happening because of weak reffing earlier - players are taking it into their own hands. HT can't come soon enough for the coaches to calm down their charges. TBH, a good long TMO review after the last one would have helped massively and allowed the captains to do so. Ref lays down the law, but it's simply too late.


And that's the half - overall impressions:
1. that Bath away kit is still utterly ghastly - mid-greys just never work.
2. First try, by Genge was brilliant play by Bristol, but it was still a forward pass - TMO would have picked it up. This is probably the only time a TMO would have made a difference on the score board.
3. Lack of TMO, coupled with a ref who wasn't really giving warnings to players to calm down, to not do that again etc etc allowed things to reach boiling point.
4. Once things have reached boiling point, teams just need a bit of time to calm down again, rather going straight at it again - a side-effect bonus of what would inevitably have been a lengthy TMO review of the first scuffle.
5. With a TMO, I think Boyce gives away a penalty and probably a yellow (or it's examined and found innocent) - and Bristol tempers don't flare at 36 minutes, and Bath tempers don't flare in response at 38 minutes.
6. General play, Bath maybe a bit better at going through the middle, Bristol better at going around. But then, we could have said as much from the team announcement. This is miles away from Bath of last season; but if we continue this style of play through the season, there's going to be a lot of bored spectators.
7. Very worried for Beno's health now.

 

[BPM]

What was Obano's injury? Knee again?

 

[BPM]

Probably more than any other position our view of wings is shaped by the way the team plays. How would Arundell or Freeman have looked at last year's Falcons? How would Radwan have looked at Saints or Irish?

I don't dispute that, but Eddie Jones also had a good look in England training. For all of the criticism he gets, he has made the effort to take a proper look at Radwan and OHC. The fact Radwan hasn't been picked for bigger games and OHC hasn't been picked at all suggests that there are areas they're expected to work on.

Freeman has looked good pretty much any time I've seen him play. Saints are a good side, but not world beaters and he's not had a totally easy ride. He doesn't have Radwan or OHC's footwork, but is still quick, runs good lines and is considerably better than both defensively and aerially. He's also stepped up quickly against better opposition than Radwan has faced.

I'm definitely on the Arundell hype train. However, I'm slightly hesitant as I've not really seen him tested defensively yet.

 

[Which Tyler]

What was Obano's injury? Knee again?

Yes - left one

 

[BPM]

Is that the same one as last time?

 

[Which Tyler]

Is that the same one as last time?

Sorry, I can't remember, but he's done both, with both being season ending

 

[Which Tyler]

1:06:32 - Bath get the ball over the tryline, and it's a mess - TMO always looks at those to check the grounding. The 1 camera angle we have on PRTV couldn't be positioned much worse for that. Try is given, I doubt that anyone knows if the ball was actually down or not.

1:18:00 - Bath get the ball over the line in the middle of another mess - normally, TMO would check that just in case, but I can't see a way for the ball to get to the ground, given the final carry. Try not given, and I doubt a TMO would have changed that, or taken long to reach the decision.

- Not TMO related - Gods that 2nd try for Genge - Bath were just switched off completely. I know we were tired, yes, I know he took it from 1m in front of the mark, but come on!

1:35:46 - Bristol this time get the ball over the line in the middle of a mess - As before, you'd expect a TMO review, from the one angle, I have no idea if try was good or not, but ref well positioned and a try certainly should have been scored. Try given.


TMO would have been involved the 2nd half, but I'm not convinced he would have changed anything.
General thoughts - much better fro Bath than last year, but still no particular invention, and moments of just switching off. Even the last try seemed like lazy maul defence - from someone who's never knowingly been involved in a maul.

 

[Geordie]

Is Obano out again?

 

[Which Tyler]

Is Obano out again?

Yes -depending on what it is (reports that it's not been diagnosed yet, but isn't the same as previous - suggestions it's a dislocated patella) may be 6 weeks, may be the whole season, may be career ending.