Paris Olympics 2024

[Vieux Talonneur]

So that's Murray's career over.

Fine career Sir. Chapeau.

 

[ncurd]

Lovely scenes for Murray so sad though he clearly has "I dont want to go" vibes.

 

[AlRums]

View attachment 20909

That's desperate

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Mark Spitz would be in the swimming GOAT conversation for his 7 golds all in world records in Munich.

Reading the other day that the current world record in the women's 200 freestyle is half a second quicker than Spitz's Munich mark.

Incredible progress.

 

[Which Tyler]

Watching the news on the BBC

So it's cause the IBA have been removed from governing status years ago by the IOC because they wouldn't ban Russian/Belarus plarticipants. It's not because IOC are contradicting them it's because they don't recognise them. They should of appointed someone else but they aren't ready yet. The IBA isn't recognised by the USA, Poland, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Great Britain, Ireland, Czechia, Sweden and Canada.

One punch to the face with gloves and headguard being too much? Come off it that's someone giving up to make a point. Kehlief has fought 50 times before and lost 9 times. This isn't someone new to the ring and was competing 3 years ago. If this was a safety issue they'd have raised issues long before now.

Not saying what the correct answer to this athlete is but the idea because the IBA said it was bad and they are being ignored is skewed reporting. And there are definitely people using it for political reasons.

Is IBA the one running by Putin's mate?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Quite enjoying the BMX racing. Apparently their peak power will even exceed the track riders.

 

[Saintjay]

Mark Spitz would be in the swimming GOAT conversation for his 7 golds all in world records in Munich.

Reading the other day that the current world record in the women's 200 freestyle is half a second quicker than Spitz's Munich mark.

Incredible progress.

Spitz or Phelps definitely.

 

[Which Tyler]

Quite enjoying the BMX racing. Apparently their peak power will even exceed the track riders.

Personally, I don't do d that surprising, they only have to hit peak power for 5 seconds or so

 

[AlRums]

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Chromosome are a mess intersex people exist and there is no such thing as a binary.

TERFs being TERFs big surprise. Both are increidbly misinformed and are not interested in the kind of nuanced discussion that has been had here.

As an aside I don't know why Davies is employed by the BBC she makes Sonya look great at the rugby. Her interview with Peaty where she completely misinterpreted what he clearly said and then after he clarified continued to put word in his mouth was shocking. She also said something else to another competitor this morning that Foster almost had speak out loud was wrong.

Turned into a debate on gender politics very quickly. Bizarre to see the left using the "gender assigned at birth" argument with the right arguing that we have science to prove she's a man.

I really wish there was more nuance to the arguments but it's that ******* dumb.

The Italian boxer is getting a lot of criticism now. Without experiencing what she did its impossible to say if she was right to pull out. However, I do think it's undeniable that she let all the media attention and external noise influence her.

 

[McTallshort]

I think it's undeniable that she let all the media attention and external noise influence her.

How is that undeniable? She has been training for 4 years to fight in the Olympics only to quit to what, make a point on Twitter? How about she got hit in the face with such force that she knew it would be dangerous to carry on and decided her life wasn't worth justifying the circus that this has become.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

How is that undeniable? She has been training for 4 years to fight in the Olympics only to quit to what, make a point on Twitter? How about she got hit in the face with such force that she knew it would be dangerous to carry on and decided her life wasn't worth justifying the circus that this has become.

You think she'd have given up and cried on her knees if she wasn't aware of Khalif's condition? That'd be weird.

 

[McTallshort]

You think she'd have given up and cried on her knees if she wasn't aware of Khalif's condition? That'd be weird.

If she was in that chain of thought and she wanted to make a "statement" she would have refused to get in the ring. She got in the ring and took a punch from someone who statistically can hit 168% harder than her. Are you saying saying her tears were fake and that she should have just taken a beating for the sake of inclusion?

 

[Which Tyler]

If you believe all the bullshit, then Khelif must be the greatest female boxer to have ever boxed (hint, she isn't, remotely)
If you believe all the bullshit, then the only reason Carini lost is because despite being one of the best female boxers in the world (hint, she isn't) she just couldn't take a hit by a man.

Worth noting, Khelif has a reasonable record, but not great, has been beaten by plenty of female boxers who hit harder. Carini is a pretty poor boxer for this level, if she's never been hit that hard before, it's far more likely that it's because she's not in the same class.

As for the unreferenced "someone who statistically can hit 168% harder than her" - citation is needed, but - I can easily believe that a good boxer can hit much harder than a fairly poor boxer - how much so, I wouldn't have a clue.

This whole discussion has gotten utterly gross, stupidly quickly, with plenty of statements but virtually nothing in terms of evidence or references.

 

[Yulia]

I think that boxing categories should be expanded and should be based not only on weight. Height, length of arms, average punching force - all that should be taken in consideration for a boxing category. I remember watching a long time ago Povetkin vs Klichko, and I was surprised then how does the arm length influences on the "quality" of a punch (and Povetkin was in worse circumstances from the beginning just because of his short arms)

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

If she was in that chain of thought and she wanted to make a "statement" she would have refused to get in the ring.

That doesn't capture the public's attention near as much does it?

Yesterday was a protest. And I'm not even sure if she was right or wrong to protest what has happened.

The consequence of having a person's gender questioned worldwide is wrong though. Khelif is from an Islamic country and is being accused of being transgender among many other things, she's personally done nothing wrong whatsoever and doesn't deserve this attention.

She got in the ring and took a punch from someone who statistically can hit 168% harder than her.

I don't think that's true. Khelif has XY chromosomes and can produce more testosterone but not at the levels of a natural born man I don't believe.

Are you saying saying her tears were fake and that she should have just taken a beating for the sake of inclusion?

No, I think she beat herself before ever getting in a ring and dehumanised her opponent. It wasn't like Khelif was punching through her guard or anything, she dropped her guard and showed her chin in the punch before withdrawing.

Again, I think I'm closer to the opinion that they shouldn't be in the same ring than anything else but Carini's actions were totally unsympathetic to another woman, with a uterus who theoretically can have children (fertility can be affected by DSD however).

The issue is with the IOC and not her opponent.

 

[ncurd]

How is that undeniable? She has been training for 4 years to fight in the Olympics only to quit to what, make a point on Twitter? How about she got hit in the face with such force that she knew it would be dangerous to carry on and decided her life wasn't worth justifying the circus that this has become.

Khelif has been boxing at this level for at least 3 and was at the last Olympics loosing at the QF. With 51 fights, 9 losses and 4 DQ's. Her eligibility to box was only called into question last year.

I find zero evidence to anyone objecting to her boxing before this date or she hits anything like ridiculously stronger than any other woman. Which you'd have thought would be reported or noted.

I think siding with the Italian boxer on the grounds she got hit too hard to dangerous level when 51 previous opponents never said a word, hard to support that argument very hard. I am happy to say the media furoe got to her and she took a hard punch.


That doesn't answer whether women with DSD should be boxing however in women's categories.

 

[Yulia]

The issue is with the IOC and not her opponent

Absolutely agree with it. We can't blame the person who got a chance and used it. The question is for those who gave such a chance to Khelif.

 

[Which Tyler]

Absolutely agree with it. We can't blame the person who got a chance and used it. The question is for those who gave such a chance to Khelif.

Or the people who denied the chance last year

 

[ncurd]

Absolutely agree with it. We can't blame the person who got a chance and used it. The question is for those who gave such a chance to Khelif.

Well the IBA until last year they decided she could no longer compete despite having boxed 47 times previously without objection. She was DQ'd 4 times since last year when they started taking objection.

I think the real question is does she really have a unfair advantage that is beyond the genetic lottery all top sportspeople have already won? I actually think this point is mute if the person organs and chromosones align its not a trans debate. Otherwise were essentially saying some women aren't women enough and thats already an issue in so many other regards. Should state I'm on the side Caster Semenya should of never been banned or asked to take testorone reducing drugs.

In the case of combat sport or any sport contact sport I accept there is a degree of safety involved. In which case its a complex question. Especially in a sport as inherently unsafe as boxing. How hard a punch can a woman take compared to a man before it can be considered unreasonable? Can the boxer with DSD actually punch that hard? Basically can a woman take a punch from Ernie Shavers (yes googled it) just as well as any man could? If not how much more lower does it need to be before the womens equivalent of an Ernie Shavers punch is determined? Then can the boxer with DSD actually punch harder than that? If they can't its no more unsafe than boxing inherently is.