Owen Farrell

[Nathaniel Langham]

I have only seen a little of Owen Farrell play in the Scotland and Italy games in which he showed very little in attack. I have also read on here that many people think that he is a good kicker in both general play and for goal but offers nothing in attack. Just wondering from those that have seen him play more does he have it in him to play an attacking style of Rugby.

Plus if he isn't the answer for the England 12 who is and why?

 

[Aedaphon]

From what I've seen of Sarries and England games, Farrell has the potential to be a very good distributor if not an attacking threat. Given that his second-choice position after centre is 10, he gives the potential to spread the ball to our back three in order to open wide and fast play.

However, Sarries do not play a wide and fluid game. Even though many commentators may see Farrell as capable of a wide and open game, primarily he is a safe option with a very reliable boot- someone who can rack up the penalties under pressure.

 

[Nathaniel Langham]

From what I've seen of Sarries and England games, Farrell has the potential to be a very good distributor if not an attacking threat. Given that his second-choice position after centre is 10, he gives the potential to spread the ball to our back three in order to open wide and fast play.

However, Sarries do not play a wide and fluid game. Even though many commentators may see Farrell as capable of a wide and open game, primarily he is a safe option with a very reliable boot- someone who can rack up the penalties under pressure.

This goes with what I read about him when he was a junior. Which was that he had a very good pass on him in both directions and great kicking game. Be interesting to see him paired with someone like Danny Cipriani or Freddie Burns.

 

[Peat]

I have only seen a little of Owen Farrell play in the Scotland and Italy games in which he showed very little in attack. I have also read on here that many people think that he is a good kicker in both general play and for goal but offers nothing in attack. Just wondering from those that have seen him play more does he have it in him to play an attacking style of Rugby.

As noted, he's a cracking distributor. His vision is promising. The problem is he offers very little running threat and hasn't been encouraged to develop one.

Plus if he isn't the answer for the England 12 who is and why?

God knows. We're in a pickle here - I think Barritt's the short term answer, and will do a reasonable job, but I don't think he's ever going to be outstanding and I can't point at any up and coming young 12 and say "This guy clearly has all the tools needed" as Farrell's not a runner, Twelvetrees seems to lack the consistency, Turner-Hall isn't strong enough to be what we want him to be. I'd like Allen to have a go, but think he'd be no more a long term answer than Barritt. Tuilagi could possibly move one in,but I'm not sure he'd be as devestating, think he'd need to work on his distribution, and while we've more potential at 13 none of its quite there yet imo.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Just to echo all of the above: Good pass, great kick, not really any attacking threat.

Not sure who is the answer at 12 - there are a few knocking about the prem who could well be the answer, however they all have their down sides as well, as Peat points out above.

I think that Anthony Allen could potentially be the answer, it's just a shame he was off injured for so long so didn't get called up (then again, Callum Clark did and he was out for a while too). Him and Tuilagi make up (probably) the best centre partnership in the prem.

 

[nickdnz]

Not a fan of him at all to be honest. People have harped on about England needing to develop a good attacking game in which they can utilize their backs potential, and then they employ the most dull and one dimentional attacking option at 12, with the excuse that he can develop. That isn't for international rugby. I'd prefer Turner-Hall or Twelvetrees anyday.

I also like the idea of Manu Tuilagi at 12. I don't think it has hurt Jamie Roberts, Ma'a Nonu or Jean de Villier's career being a crashball/linebreaker at 12, and it at least opens up the 13 jersey where there is more promise. Either way, Farrell is not the answer.

 

[Nathaniel Langham]

As noted, he's a cracking distributor. His vision is promising. The problem is he offers very little running threat and hasn't been encouraged to develop one.

This is interesting as his Father was a strong runner of the ball. I wonder if he has this in him but has been discouraged from doing so.

 

[Nathaniel Langham]

Not a fan of him at all to be honest. People have harped on about England needing to develop a good attacking game in which they can utilize their backs potential, and then they employ the most dull and one dimentional attacking option at 12, with the excuse that he can develop. That isn't for international rugby. I'd prefer Turner-Hall or Twelvetrees anyday.

I also like the idea of Manu Tuilagi at 12. I don't think it has hurt Jamie Roberts, Ma'a Nonu or Jean de Villier's career being a crashball/linebreaker at 12, and it at least opens up the 13 jersey where there is more promise. Either way, Farrell is not the answer.

It's funny when the new England coaches were talking about how they would be shaking up the English line up I was sure that Billy Twelvetrees would be in the team either starting or on the bench.

 

[Peat]

This is interesting as his Father was a strong runner of the ball. I wonder if he has this in him but has been discouraged from doing so.

Well he simply doesn't have it in him the same way in one respect; Farrell senior was a good 14kg heavier (if you trust wiki). Which considering there's meant to only be an inch difference in them heightwise, seems weird. I can understand Owen not piling on the muscle... ok, according to the RFU page that's off, but he's still 8 kilos lighter... anyway, I can understand Owen not piling on the muscle if he had any great gas or step to protect, but he doesn't that I've seen.

So I'm guessing he doesn't have it in him to be close - but he should be better. It's not like he's toting any significant physical advantage on Flood that I've seen, there's no reason he can't be as good a runner as Flood - which probably wouldn't make him quite a 12, but would make him a serious option at 10.

 

[Teh Mite]

An Owen Farrell, Stephen Myler, Jonny Wilkinson "kick it at all costs" 10 should never be allowed in the midfield. Ever. Unless you hate your wingers and wish for them to be cold of course.

 

[bushytop]

I think England are finding it difficult to break out of a 'percentages' rugby mentality (not aided by the way their premiership has developed a distinct playing style). This has meant that a player (farrell) with much of what made Wilkinson successful during England's heyday has been fast tracked into the national team but international rugby has evolved since 2003. Maybe he would be worth a look at 10 but he is no 12... think that Many would thrive in that spot. He's Englands only weapon within the 3/4s so get quick ball into his hands... he'll work it out from there.

 

[bushytop]

Meant to be 'Manu' not 'many' in my previous post... damn you predictive text

 

[Nathaniel Langham]

Well he simply doesn't have it in him the same way in one respect; Farrell senior was a good 14kg heavier (if you trust wiki). Which considering there's meant to only be an inch difference in them heightwise, seems weird. I can understand Owen not piling on the muscle... ok, according to the RFU page that's off, but he's still 8 kilos lighter... anyway, I can understand Owen not piling on the muscle if he had any great gas or step to protect, but he doesn't that I've seen.

So I'm guessing he doesn't have it in him to be close - but he should be better. It's not like he's toting any significant physical advantage on Flood that I've seen, there's no reason he can't be as good a runner as Flood - which probably wouldn't make him quite a 12, but would make him a serious option at 10.

Thats end of career weight not start. I think Farrell Jnr could make this impact just needs to be trained to run the ball and take on the line. His passing and vison should put him above that of Myler and even Wilkinson. Play him with the right game plan and the right structure and he could be a gem. Just need someone not involved in the current English set up to do this.

 

[j'nuh]

I don't like Farrell, but he's got some pretty good attributes and if he can develop a running game to complement his other skills, I'd have him in in a heartbeat. He's young so he has time on his side to do this, but it'll need a change of direction in the way Sarries play. (Which is only going to happen if other teams expose the flaws in the way they play.)

With Trinder, Daly, Lowe, Tuilagi, Waldouck and May, we've got a pretty bright future at 13. At 12, Barritt is useful and I'd stick with him for now (see what he can do when we actually get to attack) and I've been impressed with Ryan Mills who is breaking through into the first team at Glos, and if 12T can get his consistency right then he's a possibility and we'll see if Allen can come back from injury well enough, but I'm struggling for others.

I'd like Tuilagi at 12, but I doubt he's going to get much more club experience at it since Allen is back.

 

[nickdnz]

I love this attitude of "he'd be pretty handy if he developed a running game". He's playing inside centre for god sakes. A running game is fairly vital to the role. He'd also make a good prop if he could scrummage. But he can't, so it's pointless to pick him at prop. Yes he's young, so let him develop away from the international scene. I can guarentee you however, he'll never have a good running game.

Even if he moved to 10 I think he'd just hold back English rugby for another decade. He's too boring and uncreative. Ok, England managed to beat Italy and Scotland due to two charge downs in two games that won them both matches. Unless England are hoping Charlie Hodgson is going to charge down and score tries off every time Dan Carter kicks the ball, England better put someone who can create something in their centres before they get demolished. You want to develop a youngster? Try Freddie Burn or even George Ford.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Waldouck is a 12 isn't he? Or at least, he plays a fair amount there (when he's not broken, that is. He started there for Wasps this weekend).
I'd still rather any of those players convert to a 12 over Tuilagi, though.

 

[big ginger 8]

I've never understood why Farrall is so highly rated. He's a solid defender, who'll make most of his kicks and is a decent kick out of hand. He's never going to be a world beater. He's a solid player but he won't ignite a backline. He'd be a good dependable bench option but there's definitely better English 10's and it's probably worth playing someone else center.

As everyone knows he's young and could well prove me wrong but I doubt it.

 

[TPenn]

Farrell seems to be a very 'safe' player, but it's just rugby by numbers. He doesn't look like he has the capability to think 'outside the box' and play what is in front of him. It seems to be a problem with a number of young English players, there is no room for improvisation.

 

[j'nuh]

I think the thing I hate the most is that his kicking percentage is rated so importantly. Without a functioning attack, we won't get in the position to get the penalties to begin with. (There is little you can do to score penalties when you spend the majority of the game defending your own tryline.) Screw the percentages: scoring 4/5 is better than 3/3.

 

[psychic duck]

I think the thing I hate the most is that his kicking percentage is rated so importantly. Without a functioning attack, we won't get in the position to get the penalties to begin with. (There is little you can do to score penalties when you spend the majority of the game defending your own tryline.) Screw the percentages: scoring 4/5 is better than 3/3.

England would have lost to Italy if they didn't have a competent goal kicker