Oscar Pistorius - Paralypic Gold Medalist, Shoots and Kills Girlfriend

[Chikwa]

South African law is interesting ! Expert witnesses to be brought to make a case for the sentencing . Is this procedure part of the Roman Dutch origins .
I heard a South African lawyers opinion that she misapplied the law by the reasoning she used to find the accused not guilty of murder. He is a very fortunate lad!

 

[TRF_heineken]

South African law is interesting ! Expert witnesses to be brought to make a case for the sentencing . Is this procedure part of the Roman Dutch origins .
I heard a South African lawyers opinion that she misapplied the law by the reasoning she used to find the accused not guilty of murder. He is a very fortunate lad!

I think you heard wrong. She misapplied a theory in our law, but came to the right conclusion nonetheless.

The Sentencing starts today.

Apparantley it will be a 3-day hearing with the Defence to argue mitigating circumstances and the prosecution arguing aggrevated circumstances. Both to call witnessess...

 

[TRF_heineken]

So Oscar will go to jail...

Judge Masipa has just given sentencing:

On count one: maximum imprisonment of five years.
On count 2: OP gets three years wholly suspended for five years on condition that OP isn't found guilty of similar crime.

She breezed through the sentencing verdict this morning. She said the State's case for aggrevating circumstances was more reliable than the defence, for mitigation.

Both the State and Defence have 2 weeks to appeal if they so wish.

Oscar will definitely sit for at least one year in prison, thereafter he will qualify for parole, as you have to sit a 3rd of your sentence.

On count one: maximum imprisonment of five years.

 

[Chikwa]

So Oscar will go to jail...

Judge Masipa has just given sentencing:

On count one: maximum imprisonment of five years.
On count 2: OP gets three years wholly suspended for five years on condition that OP isn't found guilty of similar crime.

She breezed through the sentencing verdict this morning. She said the State's case for aggrevating circumstances was more reliable than the defence, for mitigation.

Both the State and Defence have 2 weeks to appeal if they so wish.

Oscar will definitely sit for at least one year in prison, thereafter he will qualify for parole, as you have to sit a 3rd of your sentence.

On count one: maximum imprisonment of five years.

Do you agree with the use of her discretion in the sentencing? Oscar must be breathing a sigh of relief. His Athletic career has somewhat been saved. Not sure what will happen to his sponsorships.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Do you agree with the use of her discretion in the sentencing? Oscar must be breathing a sigh of relief. His Athletic career has somewhat been saved. Not sure what will happen to his sponsorships.

I'm not sure. If I have to be honest I think she used the harshest of punishments for Oscar, yet there are so many things that can happen onward that is unknown.

They can now apply for appeal, which Oscar's camp already noted that they aren't going to do that. The state could also appeal, and there seems to be murmurs that it will indeed happen, Which IMHO is a bad idea for the state, as they will not get a harsher punishment for Oscar than what he already got. The judge also used case law of a similar case with different results, which she used as a baseline. In that case the husband shot through a door and killed his wife. The difference was he didn't know that there was someone behind the door, and he also took just 1 shot. The husband got 3 years house arrest.

Oscar has already been handed over to the department of correctional services, and will spend his first night in jail tonight. He can serve 1/6th of his sentence and then apply for house arrest due to his disability, and then serve the rest of the term at home. The state can even make a deal with him to lessen the sentencing period.

I think his athletic career is over, to be honest. The Olympic committee of Rio 2016 has already issued a statement that he will not be allowed to compete at next year's Olympics.

 

[SelimNiai]

I'm not sure. If I have to be honest I think she used the harshest of punishments for Oscar, yet there are so many things that can happen onward that is unknown.

They can now apply for appeal, which Oscar's camp already noted that they aren't going to do that. The state could also appeal, and there seems to be murmurs that it will indeed happen, Which IMHO is a bad idea for the state, as they will not get a harsher punishment for Oscar than what he already got. The judge also used case law of a similar case with different results, which she used as a baseline. In that case the husband shot through a door and killed his wife. The difference was he didn't know that there was someone behind the door, and he also took just 1 shot. The husband got 3 years house arrest.

Oscar has already been handed over to the department of correctional services, and will spend his first night in jail tonight. He can serve 1/6th of his sentence and then apply for house arrest due to his disability, and then serve the rest of the term at home. The state can even make a deal with him to lessen the sentencing period.

I think his athletic career is over, to be honest. The Olympic committee of Rio 2016 has already issued a statement that he will not be allowed to compete at next year's Olympics.

Something I saw from a guy I went to uni with was that Pistorious spends his whole career striving to be treated the same as any other able bodied athlete yet falls back on his disability when he gets in trouble.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Something I saw from a guy I went to uni with was that Pistorious spends his whole career striving to be treated the same as any other able bodied athlete yet falls back on his disability when he gets in trouble.

Hmmm, not so sure about that, It's not him that is using it, but rather his defence team.

What irks me about this trial is that the Judge, in my opinion didn't take his disabillity into enough consideration, and the vulnerability of having no legs. Using the "reasonable man" theory was used wrongly, as not a single witness was disabled, so how can the normal able bodied "reasonable man" be used instead of a "disabled reasonble man".

I would have used his disability more, but I think that his defence got orders from that they shouldn't.

And maybe it was a stroke of genius by them, because now, the State, and the department of Corrections has to pull out all the stops to accomodate him in prison, which I doubt they can...


Edit: I have just read up on the 1/6th part... My Apologies, I have to correct my previous post. According to our Criminal Procedure Act, section 276 states that any person may be handed a correctional supervision (house arrest) sentence if the Parole Board feels that the convicted person has served his time appropriately in prison. It's not about his disability, it's applicable to any person who got a maximum sentence of 5 years imprisonment.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Something I saw from a guy I went to uni with was that Pistorious spends his whole career striving to be treated the same as any other able bodied athlete yet falls back on his disability when he gets in trouble.

If the structural integrity of my anus depended upon it then so would I.

 

[TRF_heineken]

If the structural integrity of my anus depended upon it then so would I.

Lol!! I doubt that will happen to him... Unless it's a guard... Oscar will mostly spend his time in the medical ward of the prison, or in his single cell.

 

[SelimNiai]

So the prosecutors can appeal against the ruling of culpable homicide on the grounds the Judge misapplied "dolus eventualis" in her ruling. So murder could still be the verdict against Pistorious

 

[TRF_heineken]

So the prosecutors can appeal against the ruling of culpable homicide on the grounds the Judge misapplied "dolus eventualis" in her ruling. So murder could still be the verdict against Pistorious

Yes.

The judge, who handed down the ruling and the sentencing has now granted the State leave to appeal to the Supreme Court of Appeal. What's interesting is that she dismissed their appeal on the sentencing handed down to Oscar.

So by the time the Appeal is hear in the Supreme Court of Appeal, Oscar could be out of jail for his current sentence. If the Supreme Court finds him guilty of Murder, the minimum sentencing is 15 years. which would mean that he will then go to jail for the full 15 years, and doesn't get "discount" for the time he is serving now.

The appeal process might only start in 2 or 3 years. And there is a strong possibility that there might even be different council for both Oscar and the State. Barry Roux for instance has spoken out about not being council for Oscar when it goes to Appeal, and that he won't do any more work until Oscar has paid his outstanding fees.

It's now going to become an academic battle. And a lot of professors will be asked to give their point of view on the matter. Judge Masipa also said that the appeal is about a matter of law and not a matter of a fact. This is going to be a bit tiresome...

 

[SelimNiai]

Yes.

The judge, who handed down the ruling and the sentencing has now granted the State leave to appeal to the Supreme Court of Appeal. What's interesting is that she dismissed their appeal on the sentencing handed down to Oscar.

So by the time the Appeal is hear in the Supreme Court of Appeal, Oscar could be out of jail for his current sentence. If the Supreme Court finds him guilty of Murder, the minimum sentencing is 15 years. which would mean that he will then go to jail for the full 15 years, and doesn't get "discount" for the time he is serving now.

The appeal process might only start in 2 or 3 years. And there is a strong possibility that there might even be different council for both Oscar and the State. Barry Roux for instance has spoken out about not being council for Oscar when it goes to Appeal, and that he won't do any more work until Oscar has paid his outstanding fees.

It's now going to become an academic battle. And a lot of professors will be asked to give their point of view on the matter. Judge Masipa also said that the appeal is about a matter of law and not a matter of a fact. This is going to be a bit tiresome...

By reading about it yesterday and today it does seem like its going to be a drawn out affair. Seems to me its going to be a discussion of a principle of law that applies to an individuals thought process, which only the defendant knows what that was.

 

[TRF_heineken]

By reading about it yesterday and today it does seem like its going to be a drawn out affair. Seems to me its going to be a discussion of a principle of law that applies to an individuals thought process, which only the defendant knows what that was.

I don't know, I think it's going to affect the matter of interpretation of the term "dolus eventualis". This appeal could just give out a more structural approach towards how judges should interpret the term, and how advocates and attorneys convey it in the courts.

for what it's worth, the appeal could come to the same conclusion as Judge Masipa did, and then the state will have egg on their face.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Okay. So here's an update for you.

Oscar Pistorius has been released from prison this morning at 06:00 and is now under house arrest for the remainder of his sentence. The state's date of Appeal against the original judgment has been set for the 20th of November 2015.

Oscar doesn't have to be present at the court during the appeal's process, but my guess is he will be, depending on whether the police grants him permission due to his house arrest protocols.

 

[TRF_heineken]

The Appeals Court has just found Oscar Pistorius guilty of murder!!

I'll post a link as soon as one is availabe.

- - - Updated - - -

The Appeals Court has just found Oscar Pistorius guilty of murder!!

I'll post a link as soon as one is availabe.

 

[gaston le gaff]

apparently the jugement and sentence will be in Jan i heard on BBC NEWS this morning, does this mean probably a real prison sentence or will the house arrest continue, all seems very complicated to me but then again nobody has simple law in Western countires.

 

[Tony Manx]

Supposed to mean a sentence with minimum of 15 years it was reported a few weeks ago......do not think that that can be served under house arrest?

Apparently, the female judge presiding at the original trial, who's verdict has been over turned, was extremely senior in the bench and retired after the trial but now has to come out of retirement to sentence him - so probably house arrest!

 

[ncurd]

According to the BBC that verdict was overturned on grounds that his actions would of almost certainly lead to a death and he did nothing to mitigate that fact, firing four shots instead of one, no warning shot fired, also he no way of knowing that his own life was in a clear and present danger rather than the why he shot or knew who the victim would be.

 

[TRF_heineken]

According to the BBC that verdict was overturned on grounds that his actions would of almost certainly lead to a death and he did nothing to mitigate that fact, firing four shots instead of one, no warning shot fired, also he no way of knowing that his own life was in a clear and present danger rather than the why he shot or knew who the victim would be.

Yeah, Basically this.

I'm still waiting to get the full judgement. But according to the news, the summary is this:
1. Oscar fired shots at the door with the intent to kill
2. It doesn't matter if it was Reeva, or any other person
3. There was no clear and present danger

With regard to sentencing. The High Court will hear the sentencing afresh. Mitigating and Aggravating circumstances will be provided by both parties, and the time already served for the Culpable Homicide conviction will also be taken into account.

There is a possibility that he may get 15 years sentence, of which a minimum of 5 years imprisonment could be ordered, and then he will have to go back to jail for 4 more years... Then serve the rest of his sentence out under house arrest.

 

[Sker]

Did not expect this to happen, Oscar all over the news.

Probably the right call, right?

Hein you seem clued up with law stuff.