NZRU set to overlook Gatland and Deans

[TRF_Cymro]

The New Zealand Rugby Union look set to ignore the likes of Warren Gatland and Robbie Deans when it comes to choosing who will succeed Graham Henry as All Blacks coach.

http://www.espnscrum.com/2011-rugby-world-cup/rugby/story/153235.html
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[Me 1]

phew! We can keep him!

 

[Seaton]

I can't imagine the amount of spittle that must be in that cup. Especially after the props slobered all over it.


:shudder:

 

[Kiwiwomble]

http://www.espnscrum.com/2011-rugby-world-cup/rugby/story/153235.html
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what a load of rubbish, both are contracted for the next two years at least and considering the loss the nzru and the government have taken on the world cup is anyone surprised they cant even think about buying out the contracts

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Garland only recently signed on for 4 more years at Wales, I don't even know why people considered he might be named

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Garland only recently signed on for 4 more years at Wales, I don't even know why people considered he might be named

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk

Clause within his contract

 

[Teh Mite]

Christ the Welsh are fickle. I'm certain there were calls for Gatlands head to be placed upon a pike barely a few months ago.

 

[Draggs]

Christ the Welsh are fickle. I'm certain there were calls for Gatlands head to be placed upon a pike barely a few months ago.

Meh, not me on this matter.
Always supported Gatland, might not be the greatest coach, but when the other option is Dai Young...

 

[Zapphod]

phew! We can keep him!

Yes please hell I might even chip in money to keep him there.

As for the coach of the All Blacks I personally think that if Henry doesn't want the job then the only one I would consider is Hansen unless we could change the rules a bit and get White.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Clause within his contract

whats the clause? if the AB's job comes up or a buy out amount?

 

[nickdnz]

I'm guessing it will be Hansen. Wonder if we could grab Kirwan for an assistant coach, at least to look after the backs. Don't know who else there is to be honest. I'd love to have Deans, but that's not really an option. There really is no one else, and I think Hansen is one of the most gormless coaches I can recall. Usually the less media time he gets the better, as half the time he seems suicidally depressed and the other half he seems paranoid.

 

[Zapphod]

I'm guessing it will be Hansen. Wonder if we could grab Kirwan for an assistant coach, at least to look after the backs. Don't know who else there is to be honest. I'd love to have Deans, but that's not really an option. There really is no one else, and I think Hansen is one of the most gormless coaches I can recall. Usually the less media time he gets the better, as half the time he seems suicidally depressed and the other half he seems paranoid.

I am not sure why people rate Deans either, lets be honest here he led Canterbury and the Crusaders to victory on numerous occasions but both of those teams had the money to buy players just to sit them on a bench since then he got his panties in a bunch and went to Australia to build what is probably the worst record of any Australian coach against the All Blacks and lose to a bunch of teams that most All Black coaches would be sacked for and if you think Hansen looks bad in front of the media Deans looks like a possum caught in the headlights on a constant basis.

 

[ranger]

My ideal coaching team would be Dave Rennie, Colin Cooper and Todd Blackadder.

Im not sold on Hansen as a head coach or Ian Foster anywhere near the set up..

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Im happy Jamie isn't being mentioned too much, he can stay just where he is for as long as he likes!

 

[nickdnz]

I am not sure why people rate Deans either, lets be honest here he led Canterbury and the Crusaders to victory on numerous occasions but both of those teams had the money to buy players just to sit them on a bench since then he got his panties in a bunch and went to Australia to build what is probably the worst record of any Australian coach against the All Blacks and lose to a bunch of teams that most All Black coaches would be sacked for and if you think Hansen looks bad in front of the media Deans looks like a possum caught in the headlights on a constant basis.

Because Deans has builds enviorments which players become good. Who did Deans buy into Canterbury and the Crusaders? Rico Gear and Richie McCaw are the only two I can really think of. They've recruited much more heavily since he left. Fact is he's the most successful coach in Super Rugby history. Would England sign Sit Alex Ferguson if he was interested? Of course.

You have to remember the player pool difference between Australia and New Zealand. The amount of depth we have is so much bigger than Australia. Deans got given a bunch of nearly retired players and built up a group of players that look like they could be real contenders for the next RWC. Deans has also produced some of the greatest players of the last 20 years.

The fact is, there is no one else with the amount of experience that is capable. I'd almost suggest signing Ewen McKenzie, as he's at least a coach which has had real success.

My ideal coaching team would be Dave Rennie, Colin Cooper and Todd Blackadder.

Im not sold on Hansen as a head coach or Ian Foster anywhere near the set up..

Foster near the set up is a joke. 8 years of mediocrity with the Chiefs does not a head coach make. As I said, Hansen is not really my choice of an AB coach.

Colin Cooper has done pretty well with the Highlanders, but he really has had no success outside of that. Coach Blackadder is still too fresh, and the Crusaders have arguably had their wost seasons in a decade under him (which isn't suprising considering he's still very new).

 

[ranger]

I am not sure why people rate Deans either, lets be honest here he led Canterbury and the Crusaders to victory on numerous occasions but both of those teams had the money to buy players just to sit them on a bench since then he got his panties in a bunch and went to Australia to build what is probably the worst record of any Australian coach against the All Blacks and lose to a bunch of teams that most All Black coaches would be sacked for and if you think Hansen looks bad in front of the media Deans looks like a possum caught in the headlights on a constant basis.

I think thats bit harsh.. Canterbury and the Crusaders didn't have the 'money' to buy players, they are all owned and funded by the NZRU, everyone had the same bidding power monitarily. The fact is that the Crusaders lead by Deans had an uncanny ability to spot talent and to bring the potential out of players. He was able to establish a successful system which then in turn attracted more skilled players.

Deans was responsible for plucking a raw unwanted Ron Cribb and turning him into an All Black prospect, when the Blues took him back the lack of coaching nous there was exposed and he went back to being average. He managed to spot the potential of the likes of Ross Filipo, Jared Payne, Caleb Ralph, Mose Tuiali'i etc when no other union wanted them and turned them into international calibre players.
He was also able to take very average players and enable them to play far better than they were ever thought capable of; guys like Nathan Mauger, Scott Hamilton, Sam Broomhall, Ruben Thorne

I also think he has done an absolutely brilliant job with the Wallabies. In his short tenure he has managed to gut the team without any real outcry (compare with Hammett to see what a great job he did at this) and reconstruct a team that is capable of being the best in the world for many years to come. He always had a ridiculous talent for spotting potential in young players, the likes of Laulala, the Whitelocks, Keiran Read etc. He has put this to use in Australia and now has an established trinations winning team with a core of players around the age of 22. They can keep this team together and work out combinations for the next 10 years!

'Deer in the headlights' is also an inaccurate way to describe Deans, hes the opposite. I would go instead with 'total contempt', watch his interviews, the vibe he gives off is that hes hot **** and the reporters aren't worthy of asking him questions. In fact the only problem i have with Deans as the All Blacks coach is that he has an ego and by most accounts he is a total dick when he wants to be. He doesn't work well in a team environment where he isn't allowed to be a total dictator about things, so NZ probably isnt the best fit. Hes still a great coach though.

Foster near the set up is a joke. 8 years of mediocrity with the Chiefs does not a head coach make. As I said, Hansen is not really my choice of an AB coach.

Colin Cooper has done pretty well with the Highlanders, but he really has had no success outside of that. Coach Blackadder is still too fresh, and the Crusaders have arguably had their wost seasons in a decade under him (which isn't suprising considering he's still very new).

The word is the main contender to Hansen is a Cooper/Foster combo which i'm not too keen on.

Cooper was an assistant to Deans at the Crusaders and did better with the Hurricanes than anyone else has managed (Hammett showed that its not an easy job). Then within a couple of years he turned Taranaki into a ranfurly shield winning team only a point out from the finals.

I don't think Cooper is the greatest coach around but his ability to create relationships with and between players and to foster a team environment is top notch. His ability to get the most out of raw islanders is very important to All Black chances too (If we want to see Savea, Piutau, Nanai-Williams etc do well in the All Blacks environment, Cooper is the man for the job).

As for Blackadder, again hes far from perfect. I just think its important to have an actual forwards coach who knows the ins and outs of the job. Hansen is more a backs coach than a forwards one, and it has shown at times during his career. Blackadders tight 5 expertise is what i would be after, beyond him there aren't too many other options. Maybe Jamie Joseph. Plumtree would be great to get back.

I hope Anton Oliver steps into coaching, he could be great, as could Ruben Thorne

 

[ret]

Because Deans has builds enviorments which players become good. Who did Deans buy into Canterbury and the Crusaders? Rico Gear and Richie McCaw are the only two I can really think of. They've recruited much more heavily since he left. Fact is he's the most successful coach in Super Rugby history. Would England sign Sit Alex Ferguson if he was interested? Of course.

You have to remember the player pool difference between Australia and New Zealand. The amount of depth we have is so much bigger than Australia. Deans got given a bunch of nearly retired players and built up a group of players that look like they could be real contenders for the next RWC. Deans has also produced some of the greatest players of the last 20 years.

The fact is, there is no one else with the amount of experience that is capable. I'd almost suggest signing Ewen McKenzie, as he's at least a coach which has had real success.



Foster near the set up is a joke. 8 years of mediocrity with the Chiefs does not a head coach make. As I said, Hansen is not really my choice of an AB coach.

Colin Cooper has done pretty well with the Highlanders, but he really has had no success outside of that. Coach Blackadder is still too fresh, and the Crusaders have arguably had their wost seasons in a decade under him (which isn't suprising considering he's still very new).

Agree with this. Also Australia didn't get their hands on the Bledisloe Cup from 1949-1979 so Deans' record against the AB's is hardly the worst!

 

[Zapphod]

Agree with this. Also Australia didn't get their hands on the Bledisloe Cup from 1949-1979 so Deans' record against the AB's is hardly the worst!

Hang on a sec his record with Australia is what about 55% from 50-ish tests and a less than 30% against the Springboks and All Blacks?
He has a record loss to the Springboks and a record number of continuous defeats to the All Blacks.

His record is close to if not the worst Australian coach of the last 30 years.

 

[nickdnz]

Hang on a sec his record with Australia is what about 55% from 50-ish tests and a less than 30% against the Springboks and All Blacks?
He has a record loss to the Springboks and a record number of continuous defeats to the All Blacks.

His record is close to if not the worst Australian coach of the last 30 years.

The problem with this is:

There was no Tri Nations later than 16 years ago, so they'd only play the All Blacks about two times at most, a year (and not play South Africa at all for a while). Compared to coaches like John Connolly and Eddie Jones he's not too far off, and the fact he's rebuilt a team from scratch is what everyone seems to be forgetting.
Deans had not a single player from the backline who made it to a previous World Cup.

Put it this way. Henry had:

Andrew Hore, Kevin Mealamu, Tony Woodcock, Brad Thorn, Ali Williams, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Daniel Carter, Richie McCaw, Andy Ellis and Mils Muliaina who had made it to previous World Cups before this one (11).

Deans had:

Stephen Moore, Nathan Sharpe, Dan Vickerman, Rocky Elsome, Wycliff Palu, Berrick Barnes, Adam Ashley-Cooper and Drew Mitchell (8)

What's more interesting is that Saia Fainga'a, Ben Alexander, Sekope Kepu, Salesi Ma'afu, James Slipper, Rob Simmons, Scott Higginbotham, Matt Hodgson, David Pocock, Ben McCalman, Will Genia, Nick Phipps, Quade Cooper, Anthony Fainga'a, Rob Horne, Pat McCabe, James O'Connor, Lachlan Turner, Luke Burgess and Kurtley Beale all made their international debut under Robbie Deans. That means, that aside from the 8 world cup players whom Deans inherited and the two additional players who did not make previous RWC squads, he literally created 2/3rds of his squad in three years.

 

[donmcdazzle]

I hope Anton Oliver steps into coaching, he could be great, as could Ruben Thorne

Wouldn't hold your breath on that, he is studying towards an MBA over in London; aiming for a business career rather than one in coaching.

The Canterbury set up tends to get all the good young guys as they have the (well earned) reputation of turning good players into great ones. The likes of the Whitelock's were well known in Manawatu rugby while they were at high school but they all chose Canterbury for the development side of things so their talent spotting isn't all that special they just tend to get first right of refusal on a lot of players so cherry pick the best ones and the cycle continues.