Jaminet released and suspended from French squad after racist remarks

[Kiwiwomble]

I mean that's not how the world works, good people can say bad things, and bad people can say good things...

The truth is always somewhere in between, so my question remains, wtf was he thinking?!

....bad people CAN say good things....but its not a rule or anything, if someone says something good they must be bad....most of the times people say something bad....theyre bad

 

[Lé Ddanno]

....bad people CAN say good things....but its not a rule or anything, if someone says something good they must be bad....most of the times people say something bad....theyre bad

Paraphrasing, but 'if someone tells you who they are, listen to them the first time'

 

[Yulia]

Trigger warning - NOT a comfortable read

Argentine woman raped, beaten by French rugby players: lawyer

An Argentine woman accusing two French international rugby players of rape was savagely beaten by her assailants, her lawyer said Wednesday, during an encounter that the men claim was consensual.

www.france24.com

Jesus..two big bulls hitting and raping one weak woman...I have no words

 

[AlRums]

France rugby players charged with raping woman in Argentina

The rugby players, who deny rape, are accused of attacking a woman in a hotel room after an international match.

www.bbc.co.uk

They've been charged now

 

[dirty harry]

....bad people CAN say good things....but its not a rule or anything, if someone says something good they must be bad....most of the times people say something bad....theyre bad

By this logic all comedians, or people who make dark jokes are bad.

Again, life isnt black and white, there are lots of examples of nuance. Like Liam Neeson.

I'm not saying he is good or bad, I'm saying, as someone who works with offenders on a daily basis a comment or an act does not define your entire personality. There are reasons behind actions.

 

[dirty harry]

France rugby players charged with raping woman in Argentina

The rugby players, who deny rape, are accused of attacking a woman in a hotel room after an international match.

www.bbc.co.uk

They've been charged now

This is disturbing, why are French players using this tour as party central?

 

[Welsh Exile]

This is disturbing, why are French players using this tour as party central?

I'm sure what you meant to say is, this is disturbing that French players are accused of committing such a horrific crime rather than using the tour as party central.

Innocent until proven guilty obviously but not a good look.

 

[Saintjay]

By this logic all comedians, or people who make dark jokes are bad.

Again, life isnt black and white, there are lots of examples of nuance. Like Liam Neeson.

I'm not saying he is good or bad, I'm saying, as someone who works with offenders on a daily basis a comment or an act does not define your entire personality. There are reasons behind actions.

I think it's quite nuanced. It can certainly depend on the comment or act. The frequency of offending etc. Sometimes there are reasons and mitigation. Sometimes but rarily people are really just horrible and evil.

 

[dirty harry]

I'm sure what you meant to say is, this is disturbing that French players are accused of committing such a horrific crime rather than using the tour as party central.

Innocent until proven guilty obviously but not a good look.

Well that was my point. We had no idea if they were guilty, but we know that 3 players have been partying as a minimum, it's safe to say there were more at it too, these are just the big F ups

 

[dirty harry]

I think it's quite nuanced. It can certainly depend on the comment or act. The frequency of offending etc. Sometimes there are reasons and mitigation. Sometimes but rarily people are really just horrible and evil.

Ye, I remember watching a Liam Neeson interview where he had mentioned the trauma of a friend/family member being SA'd and he went on a drunken racist rampage looking for a certain skin colour to hurt (jeez that was a mouthful).

Anyway, my condemnation of Jaminet, like it was for Folau and any other sports pro will be reserved until I know all facts.

 

[Which Tyler]

For Jaminet, we know the facts, we have the clip that he posted on social media.
What other facts would make what he said acceptable?

 

[dirty harry]

For Jaminet, we know the facts, we have the clip that he posted on social media.
What other facts would make what he said acceptable?

Have you ever said anything in your life people would seem unacceptable, I know I have, and every person I have ever met has also...

Doesnt mean you are a specific thing. There are lots of contexts in which abhorrent language would be deemed excusable

 

[Which Tyler]

Of course I have.
I took my medicine, and like to think that I then experienced personal growth.
Everyone **** up. It doesn't make the **** up excusable.

So what new facts can you forsee, that would make the unacceptable words he used, acceptable?


ETA: apparently, the board won't allow t*t as part of a word like ti tle, but does allow f**k if there's an s on the end.
Applied my own censorship

 

[dirty harry]

Of course I have.
I took my medicine, and like to think that I then experienced personal growth.
Everyone **** up. It doesn't make the **** up excusable.

So what new facts can you forsee, that would make the unacceptable words he used, acceptable?


ETA: apparently, the board won't allow t*t as part of a word like ti tle, but does allow f**k if there's an s on the end.
Applied my own censorship

Lol I know, there are some odd words censored out hahahah

Well as someone who works with people who have undergone huge traumas, prison leaves, DV victims, victims of violent crimes etc I hear every disgusting opinion you could possibly imagine (even slurs against Gatlands god like abilities!!!).

outside of trauma, drug and alcohol use can have strange effects on people, even to a point of reiterating the most heinous things imaginable.

Again I'll use Liam Neeson as an example, went through a traumatic experience, and went on a race fuelled rampage. Was that wrong? Yes, does that mean his entire life should be ruined and him branded as a racist forever? No.

My point is this, what was Jaminet thinking?! Hes a high profile athlete, from a country with high political tensions with regards to race and religion. Why would any sane human being, even if thos was his honest and truthful deep seeded belief, record himself saying these things?!?!?!

 

[Saintjay]

Have you ever said anything in your life people would seem unacceptable, I know I have, and every person I have ever met has also...

Doesnt mean you are a specific thing. There are lots of contexts in which abhorrent language would be deemed excusable

Equally there are lots where it would not. If behaviour can be mitigated because of X Y Z it can also be aggravated. Position in society, role, etc can all make it worse.

Struggling to think of any context where racism is deemed excusable. Especially in this instance.

 

[AlRums]

Of course I have.
I took my medicine, and like to think that I then experienced personal growth.
Everyone **** up. It doesn't make the **** up excusable.

So what new facts can you forsee, that would make the unacceptable words he used, acceptable?


ETA: apparently, the board won't allow t*t as part of a word like ti tle, but does allow f**k if there's an s on the end.
Applied my own censorship

We'd be bug****d if much rugby was played in s****horpe!!

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Again I'll use Liam Neeson as an example, went through a traumatic experience, and went on a race fuelled rampage. Was that wrong? Yes, does that mean his entire life should be ruined and him branded as a racist forever? No.

i dont think anyone is saying he should be branded a racist for ever based of one incident.....but he should own up and be punished for being a racist right then. you dont need to excuse what hes done to move forward, he can move forward...accepting and owning what he did was wrong

 

[dirty harry]

i dont think anyone is saying he should be branded a racist for ever based of one incident.....but he should own up and be punished for being a racist right then. you dont need to excuse what hes done to move forward, he can move forward...accepting and owning what he did was wrong

Hasnt he done that?

I'm not excusing his behaviour, I just dont understand the rationale behind it. Its fascinating is it not?

I know tensions are high in France, not just politically but culturally, I wonder if these beliefs are far more widely held than we think, I mean the recent voting results would suggest so

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I just dont understand the rationale behind it.

Is it so hard to think that he's racist and is used to saying these things with his racist friends?
He didn't mean to post it publicly he meant to send it to his handpicked close friends list

 

[Rinkadink]

Hasnt he done that?

I'm not sure he has. Perhaps it was lost in translation but he said something like "it does not reflect my values and I am not racist" - how are we supposed to take the comments he made in the video as anything but the very opposite of his defence claims?

If there was some context missing surely it would have been provided by now as it would definitely help from an optics perspective and lessen potential punishments from various unions and bodies?

Of course I'm willing to wait for the official findings of the FFR investigation but I certainly won't be spinning up reasons as to why someone who provably said some pretty bad stuff is actually innocent.