[November Tests 2016 EOYT] Wales vs. Japan (19/11/2016)

[MikeTheNative]

I think press conferences are different though. What you do behind closed doors is what matters. Like that time Steve borthwick famously said England had played fantastic when we were terrible and he and everyone else knew it.

I agree with this, Gethin can't exactly come out and say that the coaches seriously need new ideas.

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True, I get trying to take positives. My issue is at this point it is no longer a one off, so Wales need to have a serious think about what is causing these issues, because if they don't, come Six Nations they could be battling for the wooden spoon.

I think that's is what's needed to make changes. Too long Wales have got bye by just doing enough.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

True, I get trying to take positives. My issue is at this point it is no longer a one off, so Wales need to have a serious think about what is causing these issues, because if they don't, come Six Nations they could be battling for the wooden spoon.

Yeah, it doesn't even necessarily have to do with taking the positives, its more just showing squad solidarity, although that's just one way to approach it. Other captains would have no qualms about telling the press how **** his team had been. That's not to say I agree with that strategy, just that you don't necessarily need to read into the rhetoric all that much. Regardless, yes Wales need to look long and hard at themselves to turn this around. I personally think they've come to the limit of what they can accomplish under Gatland. To be honest it's not that I rate Howley highly, but imagine how it is for him trying to retain the supposed "independence" and autonomy he is supposed to have as caretaker whilst it's clear he still has to work within the gameplan and strengths (Warrenball) which Gatland has established over time. Must be pretty limiting. Doesn't excuse today though.

 

[MikeTheNative]

In the New Zealand tour only a couple of months ago they played a much more expansive game, they were getting praised for changing yet now they have not only receded but are worse!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

In the New Zealand tour only a couple of months ago they played a much more expansive game, they were getting praised for changing yet now they have not only receded but are worse!

To be honest this is how it's always been with Wales in the last 5 years or so; they always raise their game against stronger opposition and can play good stuff, but it tends to not change the result. It gives pundits and fans cause for future optimism. But they routinely struggle more against weaker opposition. It's like they're not comfortable with expectations.

 

[Reiser99]

This for me is the difference between England and Wales at the moment. While England can be arrogant, they say their target is to be no.1 and so far every time Eddie Jones says it is still not good enough as do the players. They are playing very well, but they know to be better than NZ, you have to play at the top level consistently.

I don't feel this from the Welsh team. Warburton: "Fair play to Sam Davies stepping up at end. There was a heck of a lot of pressure on him. It was a get out of jail free card. Every time we scored we let them back in which is disappointing. After gaining momentum we took two steps back.
"It was disappointing to give away tries like we did. It was errors. When we have got the ball we have got to keep it. Credit to Japan. They were well conditioned and kept coming.
"We didn't underestimate them, we had one of our best training weeks and they have still pushed us right to the end."

For me this isn't someone who wants to be no.1. If that was your best training week then your best isn't good enough. Maybe some of the older players don't have the desire they used to, but it's a serious issue for Wales.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Dammit! Japan almost did Scotland and Argentina a huge favour with world cup seedings.

Japan are a good team at full strength. Easily competition for teams ranked 7-11. However, this is a far from full strength Japan in the forwards. Joseph had to give debuts to 31 and 35 (!) year old forwards for this autumn series due to injuries and players making themselves unavailable (Joseph says because they aren't interested in playing after the dizzy heights of RWC 2015). What Joseph has achieved in the last two matches following a heavy defeat from Argentina amounts to some of the most impressive bits of coaching I have ever seen. And he has another three years to get the squad into shape.

Wales' weakness is up front, so they lacked the personnel to capitalise on the major weakness in the Japan side. If they don't get some more strength and ability up front I can see them slipping behind Scotland and Argentina in the world cup seeding. If AWJ retires they are in a lot of bother.

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Also I don't normally mind the BBC commentators but Davies and the other guy were laughable in their assessment of Tamura. Tamura is a top international fly half, his hands in the great Japanese try today were sensational and much of his kicking was top drawer. Plus, to accuse a player of timewasting when he is taking his time while his team are behind is an unusual perspective. It's not as if Biggar and Halfpenny exactly rush their kick repertoire now is it?

 

[Mike Rolls]

They were pointing out that he was wasting time that Japan needed!
Mike

 

[dullonien]

This game summed Wales up at the moment.

Game from a Welsh perspective was full of errors, and when it started to get tight in the second half they reverted to type. Howley didn't have the balls to introduce new personnel until it was almost too late. Thank god Sam Davies did come-on, but you know if it were Biggar out there, Davies wouldn't have been risked! Such a huge let-down that Keelan Giles wasn't given an opportunity, what a waste!

This isn't the first time time this has happened in the Gatland/Howley era, every time we come up against a so called "lesser nation", and are drawn into an open game, our skills let us down and we are outplayed. Honestly, the Japanese looked a class above in their handling skills, their second try was an example of timing of the pass and keeping depth. Wales simply aren't capable of such basic skills in attack.

Have to mention one player in particular, and that's Cuthbert. He had such an almighty shocker, I would have dragged him off before half time. I was almost convinced at that stage that we'd see a good 30min of Keelan Giles, because no way could Howley keep a player of such incompetence on the field, but what do I know! Even for Japan's first try, yes it was mainly Anscombes fault, but Cuthbert just stood there and allowed the Japanese player to gather the ball, swear he could have got there first if he'd tried! It doesn't even look fair on the poor chap, he's visibly in distress out there on the pitch, but the management keep picking him. Wouldn't be surprised if Cuthbert himself pulls out of the Wales squad till his head's right, because he doesn't look like he's enjoying a second out there.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Law 16.7 here http://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=16 definitely 5 seconds.

What more to say than another poor performance and it will continue until changes are made.

@MikeTheNative
You are right so you made me check and found the thread where we (Jaguares) got penalised for not doint that almost instantly.

http://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/37638-2016-Super-Rugby-Jaguares-vs-Sharks-(Round-12)-14-05-2016/page3

Post #43

Wasn't the only time that happened to us during the season. Bah, nvm. Congrats on the win.

 

[profitius]

Last season the regions finished 5th, 7th, 8th and 10th in the pro12. Major warning signs there as to wales' future performances.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I don't buy this doom and gloom on Wales one little bit. Sure, their forwards are ageing and you haven't quite got the next generation coming through. But:

- your backs are absolutely stacked with talent
- you managed to beat a very handy team like Argentina with an assistant coach with no little or no sustained coaching experience at this level.
- Japan will get into the top 10 before the RWC and could stay there forever, but you defeated them with a largely experimental XV.
- Along with Ireland, you are probably the team to most offer a defensive challenge for NZ this year.
- the Pro12 clubs, overall are improving (but some are frail during the international window)

Forgive me if I don't get the violin out for you just yet!

 

[dullonien]

The coaching team look absolutely clueless though Bruce. I include Gatland in that as well.

How long did they persevere with Mike Phillips for, despite it being obvious that he was finished?
How long did they continue playing Priestland despite it being obvious his confidence was shot?
How many chances have they/will they give Cuthbert?
How long have they ignored Tuipuric for, despite his obvious class?
How long will it take them to realise that Biggar (despite being good when there were no alternatives) stifles out attack?
How long has it taken them to at least try something different in the centers than won't pass, can't pass?
How long did it take them before switching Liam and Halfpenny?

If I had the choice, I'd get rid of all but Jenks, and look at getting Dai Young, Danny Wilson involved, and search the world for a backs coach who's proven not only successful, but an innovator who'd keep us one step ahead, instead of behind the rest. Edwards has been a great defensive coach, but his systems too seem outdated and it doesn't look like he has a solution right now.

 

[The Jones Boy]

How the hell can anyone say that any of the Welsh backrow deserves a Lions spot a head of Robshaw

They've all gotta get passed the Irish back row first mate.

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I expect Wales to give birth to a Beauden Barrett type of fly half, like a modern day Phil Bennett.
But when.... ?

 

[valley commando]

The coaching team look absolutely clueless though Bruce. I include Gatland in that as well.

How long did they persevere with Mike Phillips for, despite it being obvious that he was finished?
How long did they continue playing Priestland despite it being obvious his confidence was shot?
How many chances have they/will they give Cuthbert?
How long have they ignored Tuipuric for, despite his obvious class?
How long will it take them to realise that Biggar (despite being good when there were no alternatives) stifles out attack?
How long has it taken them to at least try something different in the centers than won't pass, can't pass?
How long did it take them before switching Liam and Halfpenny?

If I had the choice, I'd get rid of all but Jenks, and look at getting Dai Young, Danny Wilson involved, and search the world for a backs coach who's proven not only successful, but an innovator who'd keep us one step ahead, instead of behind the rest. Edwards has been a great defensive coach, but his systems too seem outdated and it doesn't look like he has a solution right now.

Excellent post, I agree word for word on this one.

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They've all gotta get passed the Irish back row first mate.

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I expect Wales to give birth to a Beauden Barrett type of fly half, like a modern day Phil Bennett.
But when.... ?

Sam Davies will more than do.