[November Tests 2016 EOYT] England vs. Australia (3/12/2016)

[The Jones Boy]

Jones has carried on like a complete ****whit since joining England and I honestly don't know how you can claim he has any mind games or hasn't shown himself to be a complete and total arse. What he's done with an underperforming England (even if they're the richest and most well resourced rugby country on the planet by far) is impressive, but he's still carried on like an asshole in my view - and a thin skinned one at that. He loves to dish out garbage but the minute people start giving him crap back he acts like a hurt school girl.

Frankly, Cheik is right about the chip on Eddie's shoulder too. A lot of people here say he is trying to get back at the ARU and Australian rugby in general because he felt he was hard done by as Wallabies coach when he took the Wallabies from a golden age of sweeping all before them to commencing the start of our era of decline into a middling average rugby country where no one watches the game anymore. He was a very average wallabies coach, but obviously couldn't accept responsibility for all his failures here so he is lashing out at all things in Aussie rugby. The irony is that for all his *****ing and needling it barely hit the deck here - the England series massively underperformed from a financial standpoint (they couldn't even attract a sponsor) and none of the matches even cracked a million viewers - the average viewers for a good NRL or AFL friday night CLUB game.

So Eddie failed both as a coach for Australia and he even failed to generate interest in the country in stoking the traditionally strong Aus-Eng rivalry and I get the feeling he resents he never gets the praise he craves and thinks he deserves here.

This +1.
Jones is a B**ch.
He loves *****ing.
He loves and craves media attention and he knew he would get it at the England job.
He couldn't s**t on his paymasters quick enough to jump into the England job because it was everything he wanted. High profile in the media, a team (of good quality players) that had been together for years already but suffered under a naive coach, (and rancid back room staff who were getting way too much say in matters) ripe for an experienced coach to groom. He just needed an overly aggressive prick with a hard edge onfield to knock them into shape and put their stripey blazers back in the closet (enter Hartley).
Jones has always been a loudmouth sniping piece of crap, I remember clearly sitting across the Tasman from him hoping that the AB's would wipe the floor with him to shut him up... it's just now he's winning games for England the English have put aside their moral compass and sense of decency to embrace a personality of low honour and spiteful malevolent intent.
He IS doing a good job for the England teams psyche, results and stats but... his manner, the way he's behaving in the media means that ALL the rest of the world will turn against England (not just the home nations) because of Mojo Jojo's inability to stop himself from poking the bear and smiling for the camera.
Classic angry short man syndrome.
Yes the Aussie media were disrespectful of England before the tour kicked off in Aussie 6 months ago and Aussie got everything they deserved for stooping that low.
However, Roostah is right.
The hurt and disrespect Jones is alluding to goes back a lot further than this year and his gurning at the Aussie media after the 3 nil was childish and spiteful, it has left him in a place that won't make him welcome back home in 'stralia.
For the time being that doesn't matter as he marches forward toward 2019, and to be fair, I think England could well go into the next RWC in Japan as favourites.
Partly because of how the team is developing under Jones and Hartley's tutelage, and partly because at last the immense unrelenting escalator of quality English players is seeing someone at the helm who has the vision of how to pick a team and put it together.
England has always, always had good players, some of the very best. Of course it has they have always had the biggest catchment of players far ahead of everyone else in the world. They have the best infrastructure and they are loaded with gold. I spend a small amount of time every year gobsmacked at how incompetent the ERU has been almost constantly (barring 2003 of course) at turning these massive advantages into the biggest winning statistics in world rugby.
It is mind boggling when you look at the wealth of resources they have in every area (except of course the weather ).
So it's no surprise to me that Mojo Jojo and Hartley are masterminding England into the driving seat that will see them as favourites for the RWC in Japan.
But when they get there, how many countries will loathe England?
Not because of their back play, not even for their dirty conduct on the park, not for their winning ways, but because their coach is a prime jackass in the media.
Excellent post Roostah.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

SH media must be obsessed with Jones, or something, cause I genuinely can't remember him chirping like at all.

But when they get there, how many countries will loathe England?.

Other countries? Hating England?
Oh no. However will we survive.

 

[Raggs]

It begs the question as to why England are not playing the All Blacks between the RWC at the end of 2015, and their next meeting in 2018?
I'm confident that Eddie Mojo Jojo would have loved to have had a crack at the greenhorn AB's this Autumn but the numpties in charge of the fixtures have other ideas.

Probably because of the ABs ludicrous payment demand. In fact, not probably, we know that's exactly it. Basically half the revenue of Twickers, with none of the expenses I believe it was.

Perhaps the Aussies and Kiwis here didn't see that wonderful fox sports ad before the Aus series? Or perhaps their media didn't show them the questioning that Jones got with the stupid innuendo about Glen Ella and himself?

I don't think Eddie has been a ***** about anything so far. Spikey certainly, funny as a hell at times, and certainly good value for money (no matter how much he's on) with regards to getting the team going well.

And to repeat Olyy's point, other countries hating England? Oh no. That will be something we've never experienced... I know this wasn't run (it should have been), but if you think countries not liking England and wanting to beat them more than anyone else, well perhaps this BBC ad should help you understand what the most prestigious, longest running and quite simply best, rugby tournament (outside the RWC) is all about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbvbQPq4LXk

 

[RoosTah]

Fox sports ad? See, that's the problem right there. Fox has 30% penetration with the population and the vast majority have it for NRL and AFL non FTA games.

Eddie has been a complete and utter ****whit to be frank - the way he carried on after that silly innuendo skit was precisely why he's so hated. Sure, it was lame, but the affected indignation he carried on with after... seriously go **** your self Eddie.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

SH media must be obsessed with Jones, or something, cause I genuinely can't remember him chirping like at all.


Other countries? Hating England?
Oh no. However will we survive.

I miss the days when everyone loved us.........

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

God the comments here are delusional... Seriously do you aussies have the blinkers on or something? Your coach and media permanently slag off England in a gutter press way yet try to play the victim. I asked for examples of Jones doing something wrong and the best you could come up with was him being annoyed at some really pathetic Aussie sniping... I ask again, where is Jones making personal attacks like the aussies are?

As for England being hated, everyone wanted us to lose with Lancaster at the helm so quite frankly I don't see why we should care, we are never going to change people to not want us to lose everything so I see no point trying if we lose games in the process. However for a kiwi to make out England are arrogant... It's like the word hypocrite doesn't appear in any dictionaries below the equator.

 

[BPM]

God the comments here are delusional... Seriously do you aussies have the blinkers on or something? Your coach and media permanently slag off England in a gutter press way yet try to play the victim. I asked for examples of Jones doing something wrong and the best you could come up with was him being annoyed at some really pathetic Aussie sniping... I ask again, where is Jones making personal attacks like the aussies are?

As for England being hated, everyone wanted us to lose with Lancaster at the helm so quite frankly I don't see why we should care, we are never going to change people to not want us to lose everything so I see no point trying if we lose games in the process. However for a kiwi to make out England are arrogant... It's like the word hypocrite doesn't appear in any dictionaries below the equator.

Well said ... Lancaster did his best to make us the most humble, self-deprecating team in history and we all know where that got us. Eddie has restored pride, confidence and a winning-mentality. I don't think that's the same as arrogance. I want our coach to be publicly bullish but I very much doubt he's the same in the dressing room. I imagine he's probably telling the team that this is going to be our toughest game of his tenure and we need to perform better than we have so far in order to win.

As for being dirty ... what is that based upon? Daly's red was a pure misjudgement - that is not dirty play. A prop collapsing under pressure in a scrum is not 'dirty' - it's not even gamesmanship - it's probably just a case of being beaten and in Cole's case, we got a yellow card as a result. I can accept that Brown (in the Murray incident) and Launchbury's kicks were reckless (and stupid) but in my book, it needs to be unquestionably deliberate to be classed as dirty. Wherever you're based in the world, a questionable record for high tackling/shoulders to the head and unpunished eye-raking is much more worthy of the word 'dirty'.

 

[McTallshort]

SH media must be obsessed with Jones, or something, cause I genuinely can't remember him chirping like at all.


Other countries? Hating England?
Oh no. However will we survive.

Need to find a safe space!

 

[Hmmmmmm]

The Kiwis have earnt the right to be arrogant after years of dominance. The Poms have won a few games on the trot and all of a sudden they're world beaters. Dream on.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The Kiwis have earnt the right to be arrogant after years of dominance. The Poms have won a few games on the trot and all of a sudden they're world beaters. Dream on.

We've won like 11 more games in a row than NZ have, we're quite clearly the no.1 team in the world.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The Kiwis have earnt the right to be arrogant after years of dominance. The Poms have won a few games on the trot and all of a sudden they're world beaters. Dream on.

That's not what you lot thought back in 2002-3 is it? "Won a few games" you mean being 1 off our best ever winning streak and actually England have won more games than any other NH team since the last lions tour. Infact we have won more games since the last lions tour than ANY team in the world except for NZ. Tell me again how we aren't allowed to therefore think we are good? Also what is it with all you lot and taking any confidence in England's ability as thinking we are world beaters? You know we are capable of functioning at a level in which we think we are good but not the best right?

 

[Groundhog]

Oof, so are we not public 'whiner' enemy one anymore after trying to express concern for the safety of our players? Good. Top kek at Aussies having a go at other people's media and arrogant coach though. You sadly wrote the book on both. Cheika is a ******. He was a ****** when he coached Leinster, and he's a ****** now he's coaching Oz. I really think Jones doesn't even register on the same level, but his little conspiracy theory about Australia was pretty pathetic.
The thing about everyone hating England is that you might think it's a motivator for your team, but it's a huge motivator for England too. Why give them a chip on their shoulder to play with? All this negative press and targeting is just fuel for the fire to motivate them with. We're guilty of it at times too with regards England. I want to beat England above any other 6 Nations team because they're the best side in it. Same went for Wales in the past and France somewhere in the Paleozoic era. I would rather be feared than loved xxx.

 

[BPM]

Well said Groundhog. I would 100% prefer my team to be feared rather than loved. Test rugby isn't an exhibition sport and there are no friendly games, so at the end of the day it is about winning.

I want Ireland, Wales and Scotland to be as strong as possible for the good of the sport and the quality of rugby from a spectator's point of view.

There will always be national rivalries but that doesn't mean I don't respect the opposition.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Oof, so are we not public 'whiner' enemy one anymore after trying to express concern for the safety of our players? Good. Top kek at Aussies having a go at other people's media and arrogant coach though. You sadly wrote the book on both. Cheika is a ******. He was a ****** when he coached Leinster, and he's a ****** now he's coaching Oz. I really think Jones doesn't even register on the same level, but his little conspiracy theory about Australia was pretty pathetic.
The thing about everyone hating England is that you might think it's a motivator for your team, but it's a huge motivator for England too. Why give them a chip on their shoulder to play with? All this negative press and targeting is just fuel for the fire to motivate them with. We're guilty of it at times too with regards England. I want to beat England above any other 6 Nations team because they're the best side in it. Same went for Wales in the past and France somewhere in the Paleozoic era. I would rather be feared than loved xxx.

Jones is worse in my opinion. At least Cheika comments on the game, the ref is going to look at Cole closely today because of it too. One of the first things Jones said as England coach was that he was bringing arrogance back into English rugby, ****, before the England v Fiji game he not only dismissed his opponents chances but Ireland's v NZ's completely needlessly too, ****. There's many more examples that I can't remember off the top of my head of him saying things completely unrelated to his job or just plain needless that makes him come accross as a ******. Cheika talks about rugby, he might be too abrasive at the moment with his transitioning side but when he has a good team it works very well. It will be interesting to see how Jones reacts when the man who was first reportedly first approached for his job beats him in Dublin in March!

- - - Updated - - -

On your last point, I'd rather beat England for the same reasons than anyone else. Its been a while since I supported Wales over them though, in fact the Wales v Argentina match this year was the first time I wanted Wales to win a game in years at a guess.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Jones is worse in my opinion. At least Cheika comments on the game, the ref is going to look at Cole closely today because of it too. One of the first things Jones said as England coach was that he was bringing arrogance back into English rugby, ****, before the England v Fiji game he not only dismissed his opponents chances but Ireland's v NZ's completely needlessly too, ****. There's many more examples that I can't remember off the top of my head of him saying things completely unrelated to his job or just plain needless that makes him come accross as a ******. Cheika talks about rugby, he might be too abrasive at the moment with his transitioning side but when he has a good team it works very well. It will be interesting to see how Jones reacts when the man who was first reportedly first approached for his job beats him in Dublin in March!

Er what... Are you serious? Firstly accusing players of cheating is not "commenting on the game" and Cole isn't a cheat any more than any front row. There has been a witchunt against all of England's front rows for the past few years. Mako, Marler, Cole, Hartley, all of them singled out despite being no worse than any others. Also saying Jones has a chip on his shoulder and Glen Ella is bitter, how are those talking about the game? Yeah he dismissed Fiji's chances, how arrogant! Saying a team you frequently beat by 30+ points and have never lost to is unlikely to beat you at home whilst you're in the best form in years, how terrible. Everyone was dismissing Ireland against NZ, including many Irish. To pin that on Jones as a character flaw is ridiculous, or now do we have to play nice and always make out every team has an equal chance of winning except England, we aren't allowed to think we can win?

You really have the blinkers on if you think Cheika talks rugby.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Leinster supporter thinks Cheika is better than Jones stop the presses......

That's not what you lot thought back in 2002-3 is it? "Won a few games" you mean being 1 off our best ever winning streak and actually England have won more games than any other NH team since the last lions tour. Infact we have won more games since the last lions tour than ANY team in the world except for NZ. Tell me again how we aren't allowed to therefore think we are good? Also what is it with all you lot and taking any confidence in England's ability as thinking we are world beaters? You know we are capable of functioning at a level in which we think we are good but not the best right?

Everyone forgets that if England had played a A team and not our B team v France in the RWC warm up our unbeaten record would of been 25 games.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Er what... Are you serious? Firstly accusing players of cheating is not "commenting on the game" and Cole isn't a cheat any more than any front row. There has been a witchunt against all of England's front rows for the past few years. Mako, Marler, Cole, Hartley, all of them singled out despite being no worse than any others. Also saying Jones has a chip on his shoulder and Glen Ella is bitter, how are those talking about the game? Yeah he dismissed Fiji's chances, how arrogant! Saying a team you frequently beat by 30+ points and have never lost to is unlikely to beat you at home whilst you're in the best form in years, how terrible. Everyone was dismissing Ireland against NZ, including many Irish. To pin that on Jones as a character flaw is ridiculous, or now do we have to play nice and always make out every team has an equal chance of winning except England, we aren't allowed to think we can win?

You really have the blinkers on if you think Cheika talks rugby.

Why was he talking about Ireland minutes before an England test match? Cheika is playing mind games before a test match, Jones is just being a general ****, if Cheika hadn't said what he did this week the talk would have been about how his star man was bullied out of the game in Dublin and that his outside backs butchered multiple game winning chances, his players don't need that. Its all pretty irrelevant due to both men's level of success but in my opinion their abrasiveness comes from the fact they both know that they have their shortcomings. They can't be humble like Schmidt who knows he's a better coach than his opposite number before every game or boring like Hansen who knows anyone with a passing interest in rugby would be able to do as good a job as he does with the players he has.

Edit: @Tigs Man hits the nail on the head really, I like Cheiks because of his work at Leinster, England fans obviously like Jones. Neutrals hate them both...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Why was he talking about Ireland minutes before an England test match? Cheika is playing mind games before a test match, Jones is just being a general ****, if Cheika hadn't said what he did this week the talk would have been about how his star man was bullied out of the game in Dublin and that his outside backs butchered multiple game winning chances, his players don't need that. Its all pretty irrelevant due to both men's level of success but in my opinion their abrasiveness comes from the fact they both know that they have their shortcomings. They can't be humble like Schmidt who knows he's a better coach than his opposite number before every game or boring like Hansen who knows anyone with a passing interest in rugby would be able to do as good a job as he does with the players he has.

Edit: @Tigs Man hits the nail on the head really, I like Cheiks because of his work at Leinster, England fans obviously like Jones. Neutrals hate them both...

You give Cheika more credit than he deserves, these aren't "mind games" these are him being a complete arse. You seem to be under the impression he hasn't done the same **** numerous times. So now talking about other nations is also wrong for England to do? Jesus Christ on a bike, he talks about Ireland because you are our main rivals in the NH at the moment, you're going to be insulted by this!? I notice you have STILL failed to show me Jones fundamentally doing anything unsporting. So for the umpteenth time, where is Jones calling other players cheats? Where is Jones making personal remarks about the other coaches? Where is Jones creating a conspiracy about wanting his opponent fired? Where is Jones calling his opponent bitter? Where is Jones telling outright lies about the tour? Where is Jones saying Cheika has ruined his reputation? Are you actually going to put up any evidence of just going to do the equavalent of the old "arrogant English" line, where it can be asserted and actual evidence to support it simply isn't required?

Jones has frequently said we played well but are still not good enough, he has said he has personally made mistakes, particularly in selection. He says Australia are doing well and said Cheika was the worlds best coach (before our tour) and yet you think HE is the abrasive, arrogant and rude one? Also ignoring that the comments made about the Aussie scrum are based on the fact that the Aussies dedicated tons of time to accusing us of constantly cheating in the scrum before we toured only for it to be shown it was their scrum that was failing. Cheika also set the precedent of complaining to a ref about an opposition for the England tour. Seriously, you seem determined to fabricate things about Jones that haven't happened and ignore the things that Cheika has actually done.

There is favouritism and then there is just being blind. You lot will say the same **** about England regardless of whether it is Lancaster or Jones in charge. We could be the most humble, gracious and well-mannered team in the world and you'd still go "herp derp arrogant english".

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

You give Cheika more credit than he deserves, these aren't "mind games" these are him being a complete arse. You seem to be under the impression he hasn't done the same **** numerous times. So now talking about other nations is also wrong for England to do? Jesus Christ on a bike, he talks about Ireland because you are our main rivals in the NH at the moment, you're going to be insulted by this!? I notice you have STILL failed to show me Jones fundamentally doing anything unsporting. So for the umpteenth time, where is Jones calling other players cheats? Where is Jones making personal remarks about the other coaches? Where is Jones creating a conspiracy about wanting his opponent fired? Where is Jones calling his opponent bitter? Where is Jones telling outright lies about the tour? Where is Jones saying Cheika has ruined his reputation? Are you actually going to put up any evidence of just going to do the equavalent of the old "arrogant English" line, where it can be asserted and actual evidence to support it simply isn't required?

Jones has frequently said we played well but are still not good enough, he has said he has personally made mistakes, particularly in selection. He says Australia are doing well and said Cheika was the worlds best coach (before our tour) and yet you think HE is the abrasive, arrogant and rude one? Also ignoring that the comments made about the Aussie scrum are based on the fact that the Aussies dedicated tons of time to accusing us of constantly cheating in the scrum before we toured only for it to be shown it was their scrum that was failing. Cheika also set the precedent of complaining to a ref about an opposition for the England tour. Seriously, you seem determined to fabricate things about Jones that haven't happened and ignore the things that Cheika has actually done.

There is favouritism and then there is just being blind. You lot will say the same **** about England regardless of whether it is Lancaster or Jones in charge. We could be the most humble, gracious and well-mannered team in the world and you'd still go "herp derp arrogant english".

Where have I said the English are arrogant? There's some fabrication on your part lad... Find me an example of any other coach talking about another nation minutes before a test match and I'll back down but that was the least sporting thing I've ever seen from an international rugby coach.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Where have I said the English are arrogant? There's some fabrication on your part lad... Find me an example of any other coach talking about another nation minutes before a test match and I'll back down but that was the least sporting thing I've ever seen from an international rugby coach.

I've asked you to provide evidence for ages so you put up first. Either you can substantiate your accusations of Jones or you are talking bull.