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[November Tests 2016 EOYT] England vs. Australia (3/12/2016)

Love how fatigue only affects the SH sides.
During the June tests the NH sides have an advantage because we've had the 6N for the sides to gel together etc. and during the winter were fresh from only having played 2 months of domestic and European rugby. There's always an excuse.

Maybe the 4N sides should pool their money together and buy a treadmill or something.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Love how fatigue only affects the SH sides.
During the June tests the NH sides have an advantage because we've had the 6N for the sides to gel together etc. and during the winter were fresh from only having played 2 months of domestic and European rugby.
Maybe the 4N sides should pool their money together and buy a treadmill or something.
Click to expand...

The rugby calendar is designed to make the NH look bad. We were only better this year because we didn't have the tiredness of the last two rounds of the RWC holding us back. NZ only win because black is a scary colour too.

#SHrugbyisntgood
 
You can't spell ****e without SH. Southern whomisphere?
(Pls don't flame me I'm only 'avin a giggle mates)
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Love how fatigue only affects the SH sides.
During the June tests the NH sides have an advantage because we've had the 6N for the sides to gel together etc. and during the winter were fresh from only having played 2 months of domestic and European rugby. There's always an excuse.

Maybe the 4N sides should pool their money together and buy a treadmill or something.
Click to expand...
Of course, for the previous 20 years, fatigue has just been an excuse used by whinging POMS when touring in June, having played 35+ matches over 9 months.
Now things are a lot more equal (we play less with EPS-type agreements; they play more with an ever-expanding Super rugby season), it's suddenly a genuine reason for sub-par performances.

IMO it was genuine before, and is genuine now.
 
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Stephan Jones gave Youngs 6/10 for Yesterday's game in the times rating today.

He gave Lawes 9/10 and Kruis 8/10

Like WTF is he on?
 
Ddanno said:
Seen more accurate ratings on Walesonline...
Click to expand...

Some of those ratings are hilarious. My favourites are where they ranked themselves as being just 1 point behind NZ in total and where they ranked every single Welsh player as better than their English counterpart before England went on to beat them.
 
Thanks to Youtube, I have just been able to watch the whole match as opposed the the BBC fare of highlights (I refuse to contribute to Murdoch's greedy empire). Had I not already known the result, I think that England's performance in the first 20 minutes would probably have given me a heart attack! Thoroughly enjoyed the whole game (but then, given the result, I would have, wouldn't I?). Australia reminded me of England under Lancaster - able to create opportunities and then mess them up. I reckon that I must have lost count of the number of times over the last few years when I have screamed blue murder at the TV as England found ways of NOT scoring tries that sometimes beggared belief. Hopefully, the current side seem to be putting that behind them. I thought that Youngs played very well, and provided he wasn't being asked to kick at goal (after after the first 12 minutes or so) so did Ford, but if he were to be left as the kicker - EJ having dropped Farrell, or Farrell being injured or whatever - he reminded me of Mike Catt's days at 10 - good distributor, good reader of the game, but if called to place kick at goal, one's heart sank.
Mike
 
Australia continue to confuse. Able to dominate any side for 10, 20 and sometimes even 30 mins in the match. Then go to sleep for the rest of it and get punished by better sides. I still think Cheika is overachieving with them though rather than holding them back.
 
As a neutral observer and one who so far has only seen the highlights, it looked a cracking game!
Mike
Don't know how this appeared here - it was supposed to be on the Japan vs Fiji board!
Mike
 
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jomjom said:
Can anyone please explain to me what the point of this fixture was? Oz, like NZ last week, looked knackered. When was the last time any of these guys had a break from playing rugby? Oz got their comeuppance with a 3-0 whitewash at home this year. I really just can't fathom why there had to be one extra AI in December between Aus and England. 5 times in one year...

That said it baffles me why it's only now (excl. 2003 of course) that England are regaining their status as among the best. They've always been in the top 5 arguably but with the amount of money and talented players at their disposal it baffles me how they've only won 1 world cup. England should be the best team in the world, or at the very least regularly contend with NZ for the no 1 spot. I think in the 6N Ireland will give them a good run for their money and will have every chance of beating them, but if England keep improving the way they do now - top class coaching combined with the most resources and flow of talented players - then a few years down the line they should almost always win the 6N and beat SH teams. There's no reason why they shouldn't. The only thing stopping them is adequate coaching which Jones has now remedied. Let's see for how long they can keep it up.
Click to expand...

Answered your own question there fella. England have lacked a world class coach since 2003. You can have all the money and talented players in the world but if you don't have a person who can mound and direct them accordingly you're stuffed.
 
Well that was a game of two halves. Aussie disallowed so many tries, they really should've finished and had a bigger lead. I don't think that would have changed much in the 2nd half though, England were rampant and Aussie ran out of steam. They were obviously revved up before the whistle and lost that spark when they went into the shed at HT.

In another year England probably wouldn't be on this unbeaten run, they're still a good side no doubt, but let's be real about how bad South Africa are currently and Aussie have been near the same form. Previous years this England side would have at least lost to South Africa. Really interested in seeing how this England side does vs Ireland and the revitalized France. Should be a cracking 6N and probably the first I'm going to attempt to watch in its complete.

I expect England to make the final in 2019 though. At the very least the SF. Congratulations to them for an unbeaten season and turning around a horrible RWC campaign. But it is a year to late lads. Jones has got to try peak this side for 2019. We'll see if he can keep the momentum going.

TRF_Olyy said:
Love how fatigue only affects the SH sides.
During the June tests the NH sides have an advantage because we've had the 6N for the sides to gel together etc. and during the winter were fresh from only having played 2 months of domestic and European rugby. There's always an excuse.

Maybe the 4N sides should pool their money together and buy a treadmill or something.
Click to expand...

It'd be nice to see the AI's flipped IMO and called the SI (Spring Internationals) and the NH tours of SH flipped to the EOTY, so the "fatigue" excuse can be made redundant by the fact there's home advantage. Not that this would have changed this result. But we were fairly forgiving of Wales before they came out, we knew they were knackered, especially by the last test... check the attitude please mate.

And..

Are you aware of the flying miles all the SH teams do in the Super Rugby then after that they repeat those miles in the RC? Like actually think to yourself for a minute about how much travel they do in 10 months, really. I'm sure the All Blacks players have world record flight minutes for a sports team and individuals. Now you have Japan and Argentina involved as well, so I think those claims are completely justified.

TRF_Olyy said:
Jesus Christ that journo is a ****.
Could his head be any more up his own arse if he tried?
Click to expand...

Reading Chris Rattue is like reading Brian May's, you just don't. The comparison to Stephen Jones isn't quite right because Jones isn't impartial. Rattue is pretty hard on the All Blacks and negative. Before the RWC last year he was calling for Dan Carter and McCaw to retire after the Australian loss. Moron. He usually always has something negative to say about everyone and anyone.

But I do 100% agree with him that a fully fit reasonably fresh All Blacks side on home or away soil wouldn't be troubled too much. You might catch us in Twickers in 2018 though.
 
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spartan32 said:
Answered your own question there fella. England have lacked a world class coach since 2003. You can have all the money and talented players in the world but if you don't have a person who can mound and direct them accordingly you're stuffed.
Click to expand...

I don't think we've really had the players until recently either. Feels like all the stars in this team were born 1990 or later.
 
TRF_Peat said:
I don't think we've really had the players until recently either. Feels like all the stars in this team were born 1990 or later.
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I agree with you that the stars seem to have come in recent times. It mirrors recent improvements in the fortunes of the U20s, where we have won the junior championships in 3 of the last 4 years, runner-up in the other.

But I don't think it paints the full picture either. Our U20 team has been good enough for long enough, and we have enough resources, that you would have expected more talent to have shown up before now. For me there's a fairly simple explanation: a player's ability is the product of their own ability as well as the synergy within their team. A player who is individually weaker than a counterpart in another team, but has a more clearly-defined role and can express themselves better within their team, will often show up better. I think this is evidently clear when you see how quickly players react to a new coaching setup. It's not a coincidence that within a year of Jones in charge, there have been universal improvements in performances from players; Jones is genuinely getting more out of the same players that Lancaster had. It makes you wonder how many players we've discarded that would have shined under Jones.
 
j'nuh said:
I agree with you that the stars seem to have come in recent times. It mirrors recent improvements in the fortunes of the U20s, where we have won the junior championships in 3 of the last 4 years, runner-up in the other.

But I don't think it paints the full picture either. Our U20 team has been good enough for long enough, and we have enough resources, that you would have expected more talent to have shown up before now. For me there's a fairly simple explanation: a player's ability is the product of their own ability as well as the synergy within their team. A player who is individually weaker than a counterpart in another team, but has a more clearly-defined role and can express themselves better within their team, will often show up better. I think this is evidently clear when you see how quickly players react to a new coaching setup. It's not a coincidence that within a year of Jones in charge, there have been universal improvements in performances from players; Jones is genuinely getting more out of the same players that Lancaster had. It makes you wonder how many players we've discarded that would have shined under Jones.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. This autumn has proven that beyond doubt. Maybe Lancaster would have got it in time but Jones has got it now. Right man, right place.
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Love how fatigue only affects the SH sides.
During the June tests the NH sides have an advantage because we've had the 6N for the sides to gel together etc. and during the winter were fresh from only having played 2 months of domestic and European rugby. There's always an excuse.
Click to expand...

Did no one suggest in the June Tours that the NH were fatigued because the 6N only finished mid-March? Strange.

Australia can only blame themselves though. They wrap up the 4N on 8 October, then schedule 7 additional matches over the following 8 weeks. Why would you do that, other than to engineer yourself a fatigue excuse?
 
Tigs Man said:
Stephan Jones gave Youngs 6/10 for Yesterday's game in the times rating today.

He gave Lawes 9/10 and Kruis 8/10

Like WTF is he on?
Click to expand...

Aye, right next to the Barnes article that said Youngs was superb and has been all series.

I've read Jones for years and tbh, I think he must do some of it to wind people up.

Did you also see the piece where he suggested Hughes for the Lions?
 

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