[November Tests 2016 EOYT] England vs. Australia (3/12/2016)

[Ragey Erasmus]

They are a nice bunch of lads but they don't like England and England's media.

**** them then I say, I'm tired of this "hate England at all costs" attitude prevelant among the fans of other rugby nations. It is basically accepted racism.

 

[McTallshort]

**** them then I say, I'm tired of this "hate England at all costs" attitude prevelant among the fans of other rugby nations. It is basically accepted racism.

Chill man, it's just another reason to look smug when we win although I hate our media too

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Chill man, it's just another reason to look smug when we win although I hate our media too

Well you have a different attitude to me but I'm sick to the back teeth of this desperation to hate all things English. This isn't banter from these people, they genuinely want to find any reason to talk **** about us.

 

[martinspoonboy1]

Well you have a different attitude to me but I'm sick to the back teeth of this desperation to hate all things English. This isn't banter from these people, they genuinely want to find any reason to talk **** about us.

Whenever England win, all of those people are disappointed. Don't know about you, but I absolutely love that. I was in Cardiff last weekend. They genuinely cheered louder in the pub when Argentina scored vs England than when Wales did vs SA. Made England coming out on top all the better!

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Well you have a different attitude to me but I'm sick to the back teeth of this desperation to hate all things English. This isn't banter from these people, they genuinely want to find any reason to talk **** about us.

Nuts to em. They picked the one wrong sport to get salty about since we're **** at everything else

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

15 things NZ learned from the England Aus game.

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11760157

Some of them are right but I don't think they release how many forward was missing TBH. Would also be tempted to say that JJ is close to the AB's (granted depending on who is 13 for the AB).

Also in my biased opinion England are ahead of Ireland.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

15 things NZ learned from the England Aus game.

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11760157

Some of them are right but I don't think they release how many forward was missing TBH. Would also be tempted to say that JJ is close to the AB's (granted depending on who is 13 for the AB).

Also in my biased opinion England are ahead of Ireland.

Agree on both points.

I don't think it's too big of a claim to say that JJ is the best 13 in the world right now. Defensively outstanding and offers a fair bit in attack too. Trying to think of who could challenge him ATM and I'm struggling. Fekitoa can't attack. ALB's a 12. Moala is always injured. Kuridrani' inconsistent, as is Kerevi. Who even is the Springbok 13 ATM? Davies is solid but nothing more. Jones has potential but is unestablished, as is Ringrose. Payne at 13 is just dull... I genuinely believe JJ is the best 13 in the world.

Also agree that England are better than Ireland. For starters, England beat Ireland in the 6 Nations, and have improved since. So have Ireland of course, but since the win vs NZ their intensity seems to have dropped and they're a bit lack lustre. Injuries to Sexton and Henshaw are likely the cause, but England have had a fair share of those too.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Jesus Christ that journo is a ****.
Could his head be any more up his own arse if he tried?

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Although Moore annoys me a LOT, was kinda gutted for him in the end of march interview and impressed by his praise for the England game. Bit of a gent.

If you go to the England Rugby Facebook page there's a nice video of the dressing room afterwards which includes Moore wandering in at the end to share a beer with Hartley and Cole.

 

[RoosTah]

A comment like that on the report of the game? Maybe watch it, ya joke

I've been watching the wallabies play all year for about 20 years mate and it's been the same story all this year and frankly for the last 10, so I don't really need to see much more than the highlights to see where our problems lie and that those problems haven't changed.

Powder-puff private school boy forwards, a below average stream of play-makers since Larkhams retirement and in inability to find a consistent goal kicker. It's been the same story for 10 years now and with the way the sport is travelling in another 10 years the game will probably have receded to only 4 or even 3 pro teams and we'll be even worse.

 

[galumay]

Great game from England, sad to say Australia just didnt have the firepower up front to stay with them and the score was a fair reflection of the difference in the sides. The depth really told in the last 20 too, the bench players for the Orcs much better.

Australia did show some glimpses of what they are trying to do and they are not a long way off the mark, but there is no question they have slipped down the ladder as the NH teams have improved in the same period.

There has been a real shift in the last 12 months, while the AB's have just gone from strength to strength and still clearly number 1, for the first time in a long time some of the NH teams are playing a style and quality of rugby that has made them real contenders for the number 2 & 3 in the world. I suspect Ireland are probably the best of the NH teams, despite a horrible injury list they have reallly looked the goods. England not far behind, and I think English fans could run a reasonable argument that they are better than Ireland - but for mine Ireland just edge them out. Given the fall from grace of the Wallabies and the Boks, thats created a significant change in the world order of rugby.

I thought the game was played in great spirit and no real ****le, it was entertaining to watch with the style of rubgy both teams play. Refereeing was ordinary and while Australia overall got the worst of the calls, it was never going to impact on the final result.

 

[Maverick1987]

15 things NZ learned from the England Aus game.

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11760157

Some of them are right but I don't think they release how many forward was missing TBH. Would also be tempted to say that JJ is close to the AB's (granted depending on who is 13 for the AB).

Also in my biased opinion England are ahead of Ireland.

All it proves is the NZ herald are a bunch of arrogant **** talking idiots ......

Just like to point out this isn't my view of the general NZ public but of the media in NZ who are worse that the British media imo

 

[galumay]

All it proves is the NZ herald are a bunch of arrogant **** talking idiots ......

Just like to point out this isn't my view of the general NZ public but of the media in NZ who are worse that the British media imo

I think thats a bit over the top, NZ rugby has plenty of reason to be confident and most of the points are arguable. I guess your guys will get the chance to prove them wrong down the track, but for now the AB's are clearly the benchmark others are striving for.

Seriously, as an impartial viewer, saying the NZ media is worse than the British is fantasy!

 

[TommiG88]

Great game from England, sad to say Australia just didnt have the firepower up front to stay with them and the score was a fair reflection of the difference in the sides. The depth really told in the last 20 too, the bench players for the Orcs much better.

Australia did show some glimpses of what they are trying to do and they are not a long way off the mark, but there is no question they have slipped down the ladder as the NH teams have improved in the same period.

There has been a real shift in the last 12 months, while the AB's have just gone from strength to strength and still clearly number 1, for the first time in a long time some of the NH teams are playing a style and quality of rugby that has made them real contenders for the number 2 & 3 in the world. I suspect Ireland are probably the best of the NH teams, despite a horrible injury list they have reallly looked the goods. England not far behind, and I think English fans could run a reasonable argument that they are better than Ireland - but for mine Ireland just edge them out. Given the fall from grace of the Wallabies and the Boks, thats created a significant change in the world order of rugby.

I thought the game was played in great spirit and no real ****le, it was entertaining to watch with the style of rubgy both teams play. Refereeing was ordinary and while Australia overall got the worst of the calls, it was never going to impact on the final result.

I think in this moment of time, we are sitting on more injuries than Ireland. I felt yesterday we would lose as our back row was under powered and we're missing a handful of our first team wingers (nowell and Watson). England are 2nd in the rankings for a reason. The real teller will be the 6nations, but England and Ireland must have secured top seeds for the rugby WC with holding any massive drop in form.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I've been watching the wallabies play all year for about 20 years mate and it's been the same story all this year and frankly for the last 10, so I don't really need to see much more than the highlights to see where our problems lie and that those problems haven't changed.

Powder-puff private school boy forwards, a below average stream of play-makers since Larkhams retirement and in inability to find a consistent goal kicker. It's been the same story for 10 years now and with the way the sport is travelling in another 10 years the game will probably have receded to only 4 or even 3 pro teams and we'll be even worse.

RoosTahs- have you been following the NRC? Any decent players coming through?

 

[The Jones Boy]

I think thats a bit over the top, NZ rugby has plenty of reason to be confident and most of the points are arguable. I guess your guys will get the chance to prove them wrong down the track, but for now the AB's are clearly the benchmark others are striving for.

Seriously, as an impartial viewer, saying the NZ media is worse than the British is fantasy!

Part of the reason the English media is so over the top is because barely a calendar year ago they suffered the most humiliating departure in the history of world rugby.
They were thrown out of their own rugby world cup, in the pool stages, by Wales and Australia.
Yes... Wales.
(I thought England had every chance before the Aussie game but boy was I wrong as Aussie belted them out of Twickenham and out of their own world cup.)

Both of those teams beat England when it counted.
When there was silverware on the table and the pressure was at it's highest level.
England had home advantage, they had everything in their favour off the park to do the business on the park.
The English media was already talking about who the quarter final opponents would be while England were just starting their early pool games.
They were beaten by Wales... 25-28, ouch!!! ... and then hammered by Australia. An Australia who had a new coach who had been in the job for about half an hour.

Now there is plenty of argument about how England lost to to Wales rather than Wales beating them but the scoreboard doesn't lie and they certainly didn't get hard done by from the ref, they never do at Twickenham.
I remember being in Cardiff for the quarter final against France and everywhere the Welsh were cock-a-hoop about England being out of the world cup while Wales were still in.
Why would they feel that way?
Well it's not hard to understand when you see how much English media was ramming it down everyones throats that England were on track for a home RWC and would be striding out of the pool into the knock out phase, long before a whistle had been blown in earnest.
The endless trotting out of adverts and images of Woodward, the great Wilkinson, the legendary Richard Hill, even Guscott and Carling and Brian Moore. Eddie Butler being interviewed and the cretin Stephen Hughes.
...and you English wonder why the other home nations want to to see you go down????
Really??
You're media is nigh on unbearable and it all amounts to a whole lot of hype stuffed up the jumpers of the English players.
It may come to pass that England will never win a home RWC because of the effect the media has on its own players, over hyping them and compounding the pressure, and other countries using it as a motivating factor to defeat England, much as Wales did.
This is why England tend to do better away from home in RWC's.
(I thought England had every chance before the game but boy was I wrong as Aussie belted them out of Twickenham and out of their own world cup.)

So when you sink as low as it is possible to get as a tier one team on the biggest world stage, and you are humiliated in front of your own fans at the biggest rugby dedicated stadium in the world on live television... and boy were England humiliated by Australia in the pool game... as soon as you start to come good, your own media are going to pump up the volume.
Of course they are.
No media in rugby moreso than the English media.
A whole string of has been hack journo's and old rugby wannabes come out of the woodwork and start giving it the Rah Rah and the stripey blazer trumpet and the Hooray Henrys are all about shoulder to the wheel, Sweet Chariot and Jerusalem.
"God Save Your Rugby Team..."

What silverware have they won this Autumn against fatigued southern hemisphere teams who left their hearts out on the field after the RC.??
Now England can only play whats put in front of them; but these teams they play now have no silverware on offer, only pride.
As we can see from England's rise, like a Phoenix, from the ashes of the RWC 2015. Pride can reappear very quickly. Just a few wins and suddenly pride is almost fully restored, Silverware is another matter though.

England are now the world no.1 CHOKERS.

Yes they can win at home when they are fresh in the Autumn like flat track bullies in between Rugby World Cups (where it counts) but they can't win a raffle as soon as the pressure comes on. At least that has been the historical case up to now.

In this Autumn we see England as the least changed squad since the RWC 2015.
That is a huge advantage.
You don't hear about that in the media though do you? Hmmmm... ???
No.
The All Blacks lost over 800 caps since January this year and had to start again and rebuild a young team. Without the advantage through injury of having the impressive Sonny Bill Wiliams experience and gifts in the midfield.
All the other teams have lost players as well to varying degrees but England are almost completely unchanged in their player base.
Eddie Jones has had a huge head start this year.
But... he has used it effectively and beaten everything in front of them. You can't ask for more than that.
Would his England have beaten the All Blacks at Twickenham this Autumn?
I think they probably would have because the All Blacks looked a shadow of their RC form after the Dublin game. The Irish really took it out of the AB's at the end of a long hard grinding season. I think Twickenham would have been a bridge too far for the young AB's after the Dublin test.
More fool the ERU for not paying a little extra to get the world champions on a plate at Twickenham. A deal that would still see the vast part of the treasure still sitting in English hands but no, they're greedy so they miss out on the biggest prize of all available during an Autumn International.
The scalp of the world champions, the world no.1 rugby team, hanging over their Twickenham changing room door at the end of the AI.
If you don't wanna pay a bit more money to have the best team in world rugby come to your house then you have to content yourself with second rate fare.
A woeful Springbok team that is a shadow of it's former self. Performing at lower levels than we have seen them in decades, if ever. Battered by a bruising RC, a long super rugby competition and ruined by ineffective management and a racist quota.
A Wallaby team that you beat convincingly three nil away from home six months back. Whats to prove there? That the demons of the RWC are behind you?
Only a reverse result at the next RWC can eradicate that I'm afraid. You have to do it when it counts.
Argentina.
Three teams already wrecked by Super rugby and the RC, a genuinely tough international competition. Then what, oh thats right...
Fiji.
Wow.
Really?
Fiji??
Oh dear...

A month ago there was a cacophony of English fans ( and a smattering of others) on here shouting about how it was so boring that the All Blacks were unbeatable, it was dull that the All Blacks were winning so much... it was bad for world rugby etc yada yada yada
What a load of garbage.
Here we are a month later and lo and behold, the All Blacks are definitely beatable... by Ireland no less, by England, even by a resurgent France.
Of course they are.
It's 15 human beings against 15 human beings.
Everybody is beatable.
Look at England now nearly on top of the world after the AI's. Only a year after their Annus Horibilis.
Yes the English media are the most one eyed unpleasant bunch in world rugby media.
It doesn't change the fact that world rugby is wide open.
Foolishly England wouldn't pay the money, Ireland did because Ireland are courageous and they don't fear defeat, but England were too mean to shell out a bit more of their vast pile of loot and they didn't have the guts, the courage, or the self belief to go for the glory and pound on a tired young AB team who were ripe for the taking.
By 2018 when the teams finally meet i can't see England getting considerably better, sure they will improve but the AB's are going to continue to grow and improve their young talent and hone it sharp for Japan in 2019.
You missed a trick England because it's not the Scots who are tight with their money, it's the English.
Its always been the English.
So mean, so abstemious, so tight fisted they let the best and biggest prize go begging this Autumn and it won't be this easy again for at least 4 years following the next RWC.
For those lippy Poms who think you can do it... keep your money, we are skint but we will still show you good old fashioned Kiwi hospitality so come on down to lil old God's Zone and we'll give you a tour of the garden... of Eden.
We'll show you shakey quakey Canterbury and a cake tin at windy Wellington, we'll show you what a Rugby World Cup looks like ;-) you've probably forgotten it's been so long... and we'll send your hopes, dreams and glory home in a box.
Shattered.
Thats why Eddie won't let you visit.
All his careful hard work will be undone in a short ugly month where your ten man rugby will be ruthlessly torn apart by artistry and guile.
So come on down. Nobody is stopping you.
If you're big enough.
If you can do Aussie three times in your off season, why not us?
Bring it.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Wow Jones Boy - vented enough?

 

[McTallshort]

15 things NZ learned from the England Aus game.

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11760157

Some of them are right but I don't think they release how many forward was missing TBH. Would also be tempted to say that JJ is close to the AB's (granted depending on who is 13 for the AB).

Also in my biased opinion England are ahead of Ireland.

Standard operating procedure for the Kiwi press what England start looking like the real deal. Seen it all before. Backs are crap/ rely on 10 man rugby and a goal kicker/ no flare etc etc. The bloke himself does tend to be harder on the all blacks than anyone else.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I think in this moment of time, we are sitting on more injuries than Ireland. I felt yesterday we would lose as our back row was under powered and we're missing a handful of our first team wingers (nowell and Watson). England are 2nd in the rankings for a reason. The real teller will be the 6nations, but England and Ireland must have secured top seeds for the rugby WC with holding any massive drop in form.

Bejeezus, where did they get this guy...

You are fresh.
You have home advantage.
Wingers mean squat, you're best winger, Johnny May was playing. Nowell is alright but the rest are nothing to write home about, you missed nothing and in the forwards, England have more depth than anyone else in the world. You have a conveyer belt of top quality forwards from the biggest player catchment in the world, by far, stop your garbage son we're not buying it.
Face the facts, you put out virtually full strength teams every game at home in front of your own crowd when you are fresh in the Autumn.
Your key players were not injured, not like the Irish boys.
You can't talk about losing players when they are filthy, thats indiscipline, look to your own yard for excuses.
All the cards are in your hands at this time of the year against fatigued southern hemisphere opponents.

 

[McTallshort]

Part of the reason the English media is so over the top is because barely a calendar year ago they suffered the most humiliating departure in the history of world rugby.
They were thrown out of their own rugby world cup, in the pool stages, by Wales and Australia.
Yes... Wales.
(I thought England had every chance before the Aussie game but boy was I wrong as Aussie belted them out of Twickenham and out of their own world cup.)

Both of those teams beat England when it counted.
When there was silverware on the table and the pressure was at it's highest level.
England had home advantage, they had everything in their favour off the park to do the business on the park.
The English media was already talking about who the quarter final opponents would be while England were just starting their early pool games.
They were beaten by Wales... 25-28, ouch!!! ... and then hammered by Australia. An Australia who had a new coach who had been in the job for about half an hour.

Now there is plenty of argument about how England lost to to Wales rather than Wales beating them but the scoreboard doesn't lie and they certainly didn't get hard done by from the ref, they never do at Twickenham.
I remember being in Cardiff for the quarter final against France and everywhere the Welsh were cock-a-hoop about England being out of the world cup while Wales were still in.
Why would they feel that way?
Well it's not hard to understand when you see how much English media was ramming it down everyones throats that England were on track for a home RWC and would be striding out of the pool into the knock out phase, long before a whistle had been blown in earnest.
The endless trotting out of adverts and images of Woodward, the great Wilkinson, the legendary Richard Hill, even Guscott and Carling and Brian Moore. Eddie Butler being interviewed and the cretin Stephen Hughes.
...and you English wonder why the other home nations want to to see you go down????
Really??
You're media is nigh on unbearable and it all amounts to a whole lot of hype stuffed up the jumpers of the English players.
It may come to pass that England will never win a home RWC because of the effect the media has on its own players, over hyping them and compounding the pressure, and other countries using it as a motivating factor to defeat England, much as Wales did.
This is why England tend to do better away from home in RWC's.
(I thought England had every chance before the game but boy was I wrong as Aussie belted them out of Twickenham and out of their own world cup.)

So when you sink as low as it is possible to get as a tier one team on the biggest world stage, and you are humiliated in front of your own fans at the biggest rugby dedicated stadium in the world on live television... and boy were England humiliated by Australia in the pool game... as soon as you start to come good, your own media are going to pump up the volume.
Of course they are.
No media in rugby moreso than the English media.
A whole string of has been hack journo's and old rugby wannabes come out of the woodwork and start giving it the Rah Rah and the stripey blazer trumpet and the Hooray Henrys are all about shoulder to the wheel, Sweet Chariot and Jerusalem.
"God Save Your Rugby Team..."

What silverware have they won this Autumn against fatigued southern hemisphere teams who left their hearts out on the field after the RC.??
Now England can only play whats put in front of them; but these teams they play now have no silverware on offer, only pride.
As we can see from England's rise, like a Phoenix, from the ashes of the RWC 2015. Pride can reappear very quickly. Just a few wins and suddenly pride is almost fully restored, Silverware is another matter though.

England are now the world no.1 CHOKERS.

Yes they can win at home when they are fresh in the Autumn like flat track bullies in between Rugby World Cups (where it counts) but they can't win a raffle as soon as the pressure comes on. At least that has been the historical case up to now.

In this Autumn we see England as the least changed squad since the RWC 2015.
That is a huge advantage.
You don't hear about that in the media though do you? Hmmmm... ???
No.
The All Blacks lost over 800 caps since January this year and had to start again and rebuild a young team. Without the advantage through injury of having the impressive Sonny Bill Wiliams experience and gifts in the midfield.
All the other teams have lost players as well to varying degrees but England are almost completely unchanged in their player base.
Eddie Jones has had a huge head start this year.
But... he has used it effectively and beaten everything in front of them. You can't ask for more than that.
Would his England have beaten the All Blacks at Twickenham this Autumn?
I think they probably would have because the All Blacks looked a shadow of their RC form after the Dublin game. The Irish really took it out of the AB's at the end of a long hard grinding season. I think Twickenham would have been a bridge too far for the young AB's after the Dublin test.
More fool the ERU for not paying a little extra to get the world champions on a plate at Twickenham. A deal that would still see the vast part of the treasure still sitting in English hands but no, they're greedy so they miss out on the biggest prize of all available during an Autumn International.
The scalp of the world champions, the world no.1 rugby team, hanging over their Twickenham changing room door at the end of the AI.
If you don't wanna pay a bit more money to have the best team in world rugby come to your house then you have to content yourself with second rate fare.
A woeful Springbok team that is a shadow of it's former self. Performing at lower levels than we have seen them in decades, if ever. Battered by a bruising RC, a long super rugby competition and ruined by ineffective management and a racist quota.
A Wallaby team that you beat convincingly three nil away from home six months back. Whats to prove there? That the demons of the RWC are behind you?
Only a reverse result at the next RWC can eradicate that I'm afraid. You have to do it when it counts.
Argentina.
Three teams already wrecked by Super rugby and the RC, a genuinely tough international competition. Then what, oh thats right...
Fiji.
Wow.
Really?
Fiji??
Oh dear...

A month ago there was a cacophony of English fans ( and a smattering of others) on here shouting about how it was so boring that the All Blacks were unbeatable, it was dull that the All Blacks were winning so much... it was bad for world rugby etc yada yada yada
What a load of garbage.
Here we are a month later and lo and behold, the All Blacks are definitely beatable... by Ireland no less, by England, even by a resurgent France.
Of course they are.
It's 15 human beings against 15 human beings.
Everybody is beatable.
Look at England now nearly on top of the world after the AI's. Only a year after their Annus Horibilis.
Yes the English media are the most one eyed unpleasant bunch in world rugby media.
It doesn't change the fact that world rugby is wide open.
Foolishly England wouldn't pay the money, Ireland did because Ireland are courageous and they don't fear defeat, but England were too mean to shell out a bit more of their vast pile of loot and they didn't have the guts, the courage, or the self belief to go for the glory and pound on a tired young AB team who were ripe for the taking.
By 2018 when the teams finally meet i can't see England getting considerably better, sure they will improve but the AB's are going to continue to grow and improve their young talent and hone it sharp for Japan in 2019.
You missed a trick England because it's not the Scots who are tight with their money, it's the English.
Its always been the English.
So mean, so abstemious, so tight fisted they let the best and biggest prize go begging this Autumn and it won't be this easy again for at least 4 years following the next RWC.
For those lippy Poms who think you can do it... keep your money, we are skint but we will still show you good old fashioned Kiwi hospitality so come on down to lil old God's Zone and we'll give you a tour of the garden... of Eden.
We'll show you shakey quakey Canterbury and a cake tin at windy Wellington, we'll show you what a Rugby World Cup looks like ;-) you've probably forgotten it's been so long... and we'll send your hopes, dreams and glory home in a box.
Shattered.
Thats why Eddie won't let you visit.
All his careful hard work will be undone in a short ugly month where your ten man rugby will be ruthlessly torn apart by artistry and guile.
So come on down. Nobody is stopping you.
If you're big enough.
If you can do Aussie three times in your off season, why not us?
Bring it.

You've got issues mate