New Zealand vs England 2nd Test (13/07/24)

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Steward drinking from a poisoned chalice now.
Anything but a win regardless how close the loss and everyone will be saying we would've won with Furbank despite it also being extremely unlikely

I was guessing a close game anyhow and I'd be happy with that as it's all about the performance for me.

Furbank or not we were always going to struggle in this game .

 

[BPM]

It's quite weird to me that no-one's really been that panicked about Baxter starting on his second cap, yet we're actively discussing contingency plans for a guy who has mostly done very well for England.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It's quite weird to me that no-one's really been that panicked about Baxter starting on his second cap, yet we're actively discussing contingency plans for a guy who has mostly done very well for England.

He's been thrown in at the deep end for sure, but given availability he's a logical selection. But yes, the scrum's a concern and if that folds it sends ripples throughout the whole team.

Shame for Furbank - wonder if that's why selection was later than last week. Actually quite excited to see what Steward can do in a side that may be much more adventurous than those he's played in to date. Not as individually quick or elusive as Furbank but he can pick an angle and pass well enough. Also adds some power to complement the ball players.

Winning or losing is never solely about one player.

Yes and no. Team game, collective responsibility etc. But if everyone mostly does their jobs OK then the ultimate difference is often made by individual brilliance or mistakes - which rightly or wrongly get highlighted.

Last week it obviously wasn't wholly Smith's fault we lost. But if he'd done what his track record tells us he should have, we'd have ended up with more points than NZ ultimately got. Sugarcoat it all you like but that's unarguable.

One thing that hasn't really been mentioned is the line out - good to see CCS and Martin used more, but they were being challenged while Itoje was our only jumper going after NZ ball. NZ's not the best or biggest line out in town and tougher challenges await.

One day I wouldn't mind seeing a back 5 of

Itoje
Isiekwe
Martin
Underhill
CCS.

You're not really going to lose much in the scrum with Isiekwe and he's great in the air with Martin better round the park.

We copped a bit of flak last week for coming off 2nd best at the breakdown but that was partly offset by also posing NZ more problems with damaging carries from CCS etc. Always a trade off.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

It's quite weird to me that no-one's really been that panicked about Baxter starting on his second cap, yet we're actively discussing contingency plans for a guy who has mostly done very well for England.

Not really another choice where as there are loads of talented backs but we go with steward. Furbank has been so crucial in our attack it makes me worry that it will all fall apart.

I'm happy with Baxter starting and Rodd on the bench XL spree to our other options.

 

[BPM]

How many of those 'loads of talented backs' are on tour or have any experience at 15 or any meaningful test experience full stop?

Without moving Freeman (who has spent most of this season at 13), Carpenter is the only one who plays 15 and Sleightholme and Roebuck have a combined total of about 20mins test experience.

Bringing Steward back in was the obvious choice.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

How many of those 'loads of talented backs' are on tour or have any experience at 15 or any meaningful test experience full stop?

Without moving Freeman (who has spent most of this season at 13), Carpenter is the only one who plays 15 and Sleightholme and Roebuck have a combined total of about 20mins test experience.

Bringing Steward back in was the obvious choice.

Agree it was the obvious choice but doesn't mean I like it. I wouldn't have even taken him on tour as it changes the way we play too much.

 

[BPM]

That's an assumption not a fact though. I would hope the onus is on Steward to adapt to the game plan, not adapting the game plan for him.

From his POV, this is a great chance to win his place back so I'd hope he's keen to show what he can do in a more attacking side.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Wouldn't any 15 we take change how we play?
Carpenter and Freeman are quicker but Furbank biggest point of difference is his playmaking. We would need to look at Smith at 15 and Smith at 10 to keep the style the same

 

[Scotty]

Wouldn't any 15 we take change how we play?
Carpenter and Freeman are quicker but Furbank biggest point of difference is his playmaking. We would need to look at Smith at 15 and Smith at 10 to keep the style the same

I wonder if that's what SB will do for the last 20, not sure I'm onboard with it tbh but he might as a way to add that attacking flair for the last 20.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Just for a bit of fun, the England team for tomorrow vs. EJ's last England team (which lost 13-27 to South Africa at Twickenham:

1. Baxter vs. M. Vunipola
2. George (C) vs. George
3. Stuart vs. Sinckler
4. Itoje vs. Itoje
5. Martin vs. Hill
6. CCS vs. Coles
7. Underhill vs. Curry
8. Earl vs. B. Vunipola

9. Mitchell vs. JVP
10. M. Smith vs. M. Smith
11. Freeman vs. May
12. Lawrence vs. Farrell (C)
13. Slade vs. Tuilagi
14. Feyi-Waboso vs. Freeman
15. Steward vs. Steward

16. Dan vs. LCD
17. Rodd vs. Genge
18. Cole vs. Stuart
19. Coles vs. Ribbans
20. Curry vs. Simmonds
21. Spencer vs. Youngs
22. F. Smith vs. Slade
23. Sleightholme vs. Nowell

There's actually more similarity there than I expected - it feels like a completely different side. The Vunipolas feel like ancient history, as do Nowell, Simmonds and Jonny Hill.

 

[Jimbo]

That's an assumption not a fact though. I would hope the onus is on Steward to adapt to the game plan, not adapting the game plan for him.

From his POV, this is a great chance to win his place back so I'd hope he's keen to show what he can do in a more attacking side.

I get where you are coming from but it's a pretty fair assumption to make that Steward hasn't suddenly gained descent pace, which fairly heavily limits his counter attack even assuming he had other attributes required to do so.

 

[Nudger]

Feel good about this,but then I'm an optimist,come on england

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Just got home from USA Scotland but I don't think I can pull off 24hr yo watch this.

USA got robbed. Should have a typical dc 100° with 95% humidity instead we got the best day in Scottish weather history. Only 80° with some rain.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

All Blacks counterrucking so hard they just leave England with no defenders in front of them, ha

 

[Wasps92]

Crap start from Steward.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

All Blacks counterrucking so hard they just leave England with no defenders in front of them, ha

Getting bullied at the breakdown atm
NZ look like they have completely blown the cobwebs off last weeks slow start

 

[big ginger 8]

What was the thought process on the dg attempt? His teammates looked surprised, it's like rugby 101 not to NZ a chance to counter an unstructured defence.

 

[Ceteris]

Going to be a long day at the scrum from that first one

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

All Blacks counterrucking so hard they just leave England with no defenders in front of them, ha

Schmidt wouldn't allow that sort of inaccuracy. Or that following the linebreak.

(This is my line when talking about NZ for as long as I get away with it)

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

What was the thought process on the dg attempt? His teammates looked surprised, it's like rugby 101 not to NZ a chance to counter an unstructured defence.

Yeah I have no idea wtf that was