New Zealand vs England 2nd Test (13/07/24)

[Vieux Talonneur]

We're a work in progress.

But so are NZ and TBH that's probably as mediocre NZ team as you'll see for a while. It's disappointing that we didn't take one of the games - last week was the chance. This week was closer on the scoreboard than I expected, but in many ways a more frustrating performance.

 

[Grizwald]

Had to listen on the radio. Sounds like England made it a good game and losing by 8 points across two games is nothing to be sniffed at.

However, there seems to be some consistent issues. England keep kicking too much in the 22 and don't get much from it. I think the last NZ try came from Lawrence kicking it away again. It's worrying that England don't feel they can keep possession for multiple phases near the opposition try line. I also reckon that Borthwick isn't quite getting the selections right and substitutions. Sounds like Curry didn't have much impact again. Underhill sounded like he was having another good game and yet comes off again.

Kicked away so much ball trying cute little kicks through to nothing. It had to be a tactic unless they were conscious of coughing up ball as the AB's attacked the break down successfully again.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Yeah sounds like Itoje was a menace, but got it wrong a few times. If he can tighten up a little then he'll be back to world class.

His indiscipline's part of the package. At his best he plays on the edge and that's the risk. But if you're giving away 3 or 4 pens, especially kickable ones, per match the rest of your game has to be top notch just to break even.

 

[Sorp111]

Long time lurker and poster of every five years or so. Well played New Zealand, they defended very well and hung on in for that first 20 in the second half and found a way to win.

Absence of Furbank was massive. No second playmaker meant Smith was trying to force it, lacking an option or kicking away attacking possesion. Easy to say in hindsight but Marcus Smith at full back might have been a much better selection.

 

[Jimbo]

His indiscipline's part of the package. At his best he plays on the edge and that's the risk. But if you're giving away 3 or 4 pens, especially kickable ones, per match the rest of your game has to be top notch just to break even.

Yes and no, if other pack members are pulling their weight he probably has to risk less but if he's putting everything in under pressure and others aren't he is likely to get far more wrong.

 

[Wasps92]

Wish we could have seen some more of Sleightholme too.

Positives I think we have some brilliant wingers and I think Marcus Smith has proven he can play well against the best in the world.

Negatives the scrum and the centres.

 

[West Country Wail]

Wish we could have seen some more of Sleightholme too.

Positives I think we have some brilliant wingers and I think Marcus Smith has proven he can play well against the best in the world.

Negatives the scrum and the centres.

Centre.

Slade is a defensive leader.

 

[BPM]

Wish we could have seen some more of Sleightholme too.

Positives I think we have some brilliant wingers and I think Marcus Smith has proven he can play well against the best in the world.

Negatives the scrum and the centres.

I think a fit Genge and Chessum help with the scrum.

Baxter did very well across both test given how inexperienced he is. He should cement his place as Genge's back up.

Coles > Chessum at club level. Chessum > Coles at test level.

We just need to move on from Cole at tighthead. Unless he's starting, he shouldn't be in the 23. He just isn't an impact player.

 

[Jimbo]

Wish we could have seen some more of Sleightholme too.

Positives I think we have some brilliant wingers and I think Marcus Smith has proven he can play well against the best in the world.

Negatives the scrum and the centres.

Interesting to see how Freeman develops at 13, that frees up a spot for another talented winger.

 

[Wasps92]

Centre.

Slade is a defensive leader.

Hopefully one of the young 12s coming through can step up. Hartley at Saracens looks a big unit.

Lawrence isn't a 12 and whilst he was poor today I thought he did okay last week.

 

[Geordie]

Hopefully one of the young 12s coming through can step up. Hartley at Saracens looks a big unit.

Lawrence isn't a 12 and whilst he was poor today I thought he did okay last week.

Maybe its a defensive decision. 13 is one of the hardest positions to defend....particularly at this level...is Lawrences defence good enough to be the defensive leader (which 13 generally is)

Just wonder if that's a reason they see him more of a 12 at this level. I maybe well off the mark of course as I haven't focused hugely on that part of his game.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I hate saying we should do a Scotland, but Tyrone Green slots into that Furbank role like a dream

 

[West Country Wail]

I hate saying we should do a Scotland, but Tyrone Green slots into that Furbank role like a dream

So does Carpenter

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Is Green a second playmaker?


Parton and Loader are two back 3 options I'm keeping an eye on

 

[Zed]

Same comment as I made about the 1st test. England looked great, but as soon as they got to the 22, they panicked and would grubber and chip. And every time the AB's would collect and kick. England then ate back on the halfway line after being in the 22. No idea why they would repeat this time and again when it was clearly not working. They were 17-14 up, still with 20mins to go, but they could have won that game, if they just controlled possession instead of giving the ABs the ball. Kinda bizarre. If this was an U13 team the coach would be livid as would half the players.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Honestly I still stand Freeman is the best all round 15 we have

Size of Steward nearly, speed of a winger and has the rugby brain to slot in at centre

 

[Zed]

Honestly I still stand Freeman is the best all round 15 we have

Size of Steward nearly, speed of a winger and has the rugby brain to slot in at centre

Steward needs to go. He was poor tonight and looked out of his depth. Way off the pace. Rest of the England backs were all pretty impressive. England really should have won that series 2 -0

 

[TRF_Olyy]

We just need to move on from Cole at tighthead. Unless he's starting, he shouldn't be in the 23. He just isn't an impact player

Disagree completely, until a genuine alternative comes about we should run him into the ground
Look how bad Stuart's been, should he really be out clear first choice?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Disagree completely, until a genuine alternative comes about we should run him into the ground
Look how bad Stuart's been, should he really be out clear first choice?

Yeah otherwise you just risk ruining a young players confidence

 

[Grizwald]

Think some of the young tight heads should just be thrown in at the deep end and given the experience. Will Stuart just doesn't have a point of difference struggles to hold up the scrum, and not great around the park. General move away from strong scrummagers in favour of more mobile props that offer more around the park has cost England and will take time for the pendulum to swing the other way.

Earl had one of his poorer games tonight. He carried well but got the wrong side of the ref at the breakdown and conceeded at least 3 pens there I could remember.