New Zealand Haka Is Arrogance?

[MichaelBoard]

I take your point and although yes to an extent I agree with you that the Haka is a major drawcard but are you telling me that if New Zealand didn't do the Haka that people wouldn't go to watch? Its not the Haka that sells tickets its the game its self, people don't look at it and think I'm going to this game because I'll see the Haka they think Wales v All Blacks, we'll see some cracking rugby here. The main thing that draws people to the game, for instance, Wales v New Zealand, is because New Zealand are arguably the best team in the world and the fans would be coming to see a genuinely exciting match between 2 teams who really like to play open rugby. Yes the Haka is enjoyable and fascinating to watch but it is simply an added bonus because a game at the Millennium Stadium between Wales/New Zealand would sell out regardless of the Haka. And to your point of "if New Zealand let Wales do that, then every country would" well then so be it as if the All Blacks are playing away then the home team should have that decision. By the way I didn't know that the Haka was an invitation type of thing but surely to keep with tradition and not break tradition the All Blacks would do it regardless of it normally being done on invitation. On the other hand I wouldn't want New Zealand to reserve the Haka just for home matches as that would stop people from seeing something which is truely fascinating and a huge part of New Zealand's culture I just think that as hosts we had the right to have the last act before the game and that New Zealand maybe through their toys out of the pram because they couldn't get their own way and weren't used to that.

 

[Feicarsinn]

If New Zealand let Wales do that, then every country would. That isn't really in their best interests in the long run.
.

The game was in Wales. Wales had the choice whether or not to let New Zealand do the haka or not. New Zealand had no say in the matter. If they didn't want to do it during the time the WRU assigned for it then they couldn't and shouldn't have been allowed do it on the pitch.

 

[shiznit26]

From the All Blacks point of view its really easy.... its either the last act before kick off... or its in the changing room before they go out there.

The Welsh Union were well within there rights to do what they did... And the All Blacks were well within there rights to do it in the changing rooms.

The All Blacks dont HAVE to the Haka before every game... it hinders performance more than anything... id be just as happy if they only did the Haka in front of NZ crowds only.

 

[Sam Owen]

If they dont do the haka its not the real All Blacks.

Some Boxers come out to songs like..'Your gonna die tonight' or something close to it, thats worse.

 

[lance2010]

From the All Blacks point of view its really easy.... its either the last act before kick off... or its in the changing room before they go out there.

The Welsh Union were well within there rights to do what they did... And the All Blacks were well within there rights to do it in the changing rooms.

The All Blacks dont HAVE to the Haka before every game... it hinders performance more than anything... id be just as happy if they only did the Haka in front of NZ crowds only.

Intrestings.how does it hinder performance...anything its amps you up and unites your team,i love doing the haka when i played,always have always will.

 

[Peat]

If doing the Haka hinders performance I'd hate to see what the All Blacks look without it.

Remove the hook from my mouth? I thought it was an interesting paragraph, especially as it was on a site I never expected it to be on. It shows that the popularity of rugby has increased massively over the past few years and it can only get bigger.

Are you familiar with the concept of fishing on the internet?

Basically, its when people go and say outrageous things to get a reaction... like Stephen Jones saying the Haka is arrogant.

I think anyone with a modicum of sense knows it isn't. But nevertheless, some fish get caught.

Even with the most stale of bait.

 

[Sam Owen]

Intrestings.how does it hinder performance...anything its amps you up and unites your team,i love doing the haka when i played,always have always will.

lancey were you an All Black?..or was the haka for a club side?

 

[lynam1104]

I personally love the Hakka and love when it's challenged, it makes for a great atmosphere.

 

[nickdnz]

lancey were you an All Black?..or was the haka for a club side?

Doubt it, many New Zealand schools do the Haka. My school never did, but it was always interesting having it done to us.

 

[lucky number 7]

I love it....There is nothing like it in any other sport . it is just raw passion that has been handed down over generations of Maoris , it sends the chills down my spine everytime I see it...I once saw a video of Nz military about to board the plane off to Afganastan and them doing the Haka....Its one of the things that makes rugby rugby and New Zealand New Zealand to change it would destroy centuries of culture and tradition.

 

[Amobokoboko]

The Haka is an eye catcher for people who don't know that much about rugby and want to witness something special.
When NZ plays in Europe, the changes the European teams win are small, so it's an extra motivation to pull people in and give them a nice day out.
Last time I saw the AB's in NZ was just before the RWC 2007, they played two games against French. Lots of tourists who were filming the Haka and when NZ was leading they left before the end of the first half.
And this was in NZ.

 

[William18]

Intrestings.how does it hinder performance...anything its amps you up and unites your team,i love doing the haka when i played,always have always will.

I know that people criticized the Kiwis for spending too much time practicing their new haka when they lost 34-20 to Australia at Eden Park. I guess Ka Mate is pretty straight forward but something like Kapo O pango would take quite a lot of time to practise which would distract form the game. I think it can fire the players up sometimes but it can take a bit out of them.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

The Haka is an eye catcher for people who don't know that much about rugby and want to witness something special.
When NZ plays in Europe, the changes the European teams win are small, so it's an extra motivation to pull people in and give them a nice day out.
Last time I saw the AB's in NZ was just before the RWC 2007, they played two games against French. Lots of tourists who were filming the Haka and when NZ was leading they left before the end of the first half.
And this was in NZ.

See, that is something I don't understand. Why pay money to go see a match and only leave after seeing one of the preparations. Ridiculous. I wouldn't pay 40 euro's to hear some people sing an anthem and then leave. I will watch it on tv. What bugs me the most is that people think that the Haka is some kind of wardance.

 

[ranger]

From what I know ... New Zealand have to ask the Maori priests to preform it overseas. The home nations have the right to refuse the performance of the Haka. They don't do it because it would cause an outrage in the rugby community. Wales were well within their right to ask New Zealand, to preform the Haka after the kick off. Let I just remind you quickly, that when Wales asked to do it it was in the 125th Anniversary year of the WRU ... and that when Wales first encountered the Haka in Wales ... the Welsh responded to the Haka by singing the Welsh National Anthem, Wales had done nothing wrong but just wanted to observe a mark of tradition, something that is often overlooked when it comes to the debate.

Sort of.. They dont need to ask permission from any Maori elders as Ngati Toa (the tribe of the guy that wrote Ka Mate) have given permission for the All Blacks to use that Haka in any way they see fit.
The Haka is still only performed overseas at the invitation of each individual host, they still have to be asked to perform it by the hosts before each game. Although today this is more of a formality (as its just assumed that there is a permanent invitation in every game). The home nations cant really refuse the haka but they can choose to not ask them to perform it..

This seems like a minor detail but its quite significant when you think about it. Because the home nations officially ask the All Blacks to do the haka every game, it seems a bit rich to ask them to do something and then dictate how and when they do it.

I do see where Wales were coming from though and it was in special circumstances. It was a reasonable request from them, but the precedent it set was probably a bit worrying. If they let Wales tell them how and when to do the Haka then every nation would.

I take your point and although yes to an extent I agree with you that the Haka is a major drawcard but are you telling me that if New Zealand didn't do the Haka that people wouldn't go to watch?

Just because its a drawcard doesn't mean it lures 100% of the crowd.. youre just being a bit silly there.

Its not the Haka that sells tickets its the game its self, people don't look at it and think I'm going to this game because I'll see the Haka they think Wales v All Blacks, we'll see some cracking rugby here. The main thing that draws people to the game, for instance, Wales v New Zealand, is because New Zealand are arguably the best team in the world and the fans would be coming to see a genuinely exciting match between 2 teams who really like to play open rugby. Yes the Haka is enjoyable and fascinating to watch but it is simply an added bonus because a game at the Millennium Stadium between Wales/New Zealand would sell out regardless of the Haka.

If you pay for an All Blacks game, you expect to see the haka. Obviously its not the only thing youre after but its part of the appeal. Its the same as going to a game in Wales, If i went to Millenium stadium and there was no singing i would feel ripped off. I never said the Haka was the main attraction but it does have its allure.

And to your point of "if New Zealand let Wales do that, then every country would" well then so be it as if the All Blacks are playing away then the home team should have that decision.

Thats a fair call in principle, but not in reality. For one, it sort of cheapens the appeal and the Haka loses a bit of its sting, so obviously anyone looking out for NZs interests would be against it. Also, because the away team invites the All Blacks to do the Haka, its almost like they are asking a favour of them. "Please come perform for us, but also youre only allowed to do it under these terms.." The home team has the right to ask them that, but the All Blacks are well within their rights to decline it.

The game was in Wales. Wales had the choice whether or not to let New Zealand do the haka or not. New Zealand had no say in the matter. If they didn't want to do it during the time the WRU assigned for it then they couldn't and shouldn't have been allowed do it on the pitch.

Wales invited them. There was no letting them do anything, there was asking them to do something.

 

[MichaelBoard]

Sort of.. They dont need to ask permission from any Maori elders as Ngati Toa (the tribe of the guy that wrote Ka Mate) have given permission for the All Blacks to use that Haka in any way they see fit.
The Haka is still only performed overseas at the invitation of each individual host, they still have to be asked to perform it by the hosts before each game. Although today this is more of a formality (as its just assumed that there is a permanent invitation in every game). The home nations cant really refuse the haka but they can choose to not ask them to perform it..

This seems like a minor detail but its quite significant when you think about it. Because the home nations officially ask the All Blacks to do the haka every game, it seems a bit rich to ask them to do something and then dictate how and when they do it.

I do see where Wales were coming from though and it was in special circumstances. It was a reasonable request from them, but the precedent it set was probably a bit worrying. If they let Wales tell them how and when to do the Haka then every nation would.


Just because its a drawcard doesn't mean it lures 100% of the crowd.. youre just being a bit silly there.




If you pay for an All Blacks game, you expect to see the haka. Obviously its not the only thing youre after but its part of the appeal. Its the same as going to a game in Wales, If i went to Millenium stadium and there was no singing i would feel ripped off. I never said the Haka was the main attraction but it does have its allure.



Thats a fair call in principle, but not in reality. For one, it sort of cheapens the appeal and the Haka loses a bit of its sting, so obviously anyone looking out for NZs interests would be against it. Also, because the away team invites the All Blacks to do the Haka, its almost like they are asking a favour of them. "Please come perform for us, but also youre only allowed to do it under these terms.." The home team has the right to ask them that, but the All Blacks are well within their rights to decline it.



Wales invited them. There was no letting them do anything, there was asking them to do something.

How am I being a bit silly? Its a valid point, A game in Wales between Wales and New Zealand would sell out anyway, regardless of whether the Haka was performed or not. As brilliant and intriguing as the Haka is its just an extra but the game would sell out with the Haka or without the Haka, my point wasn't silly so stop talking **** mate.

 

[yafeka]

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[shiznit26]

If they dont do the haka its not the real All Blacks.

Some Boxers come out to songs like..'Your gonna die tonight' or something close to it, thats worse.

The All Blacks are NZ's highest representative RU side... Haka or no Haka.

As a proud Maori who knows atleast 20 or so different Haka ... and who actually speaks Maori, and uses Maori on a day to day basis... we make far too much of the Haka in our Rugby.

The Haka these days is a money making vessel for the NZRFU and Ngati Toa... i dont necessarily think thats a bad thing... good on them i say...

but dont go making the Haka out to be more important than it is... its a pre-match ritual like any other in world sport...

 

[shiznit26]

Intrestings.how does it hinder performance...anything its amps you up and unites your team,i love doing the haka when i played,always have always will.

mate... at the level there at... something like the haka impacts hugely on there game prep. Just ask a bloke like Brad Thorn... i know for a fact that he hates doing the Haka.

if you need to jump up and down, slap your chest and pukana the opposition to 'Amp up'... then you shouldn't be wearing the jersey.

you should be 'Amped up' already...

in a sport where the smallest margins can be the difference between wins and losses... how much energy do you think they exert performing the Haka?? have you ever though that perhaps that energy could be put to use in the game?

i have no problem with them doing it... just as long as they treat both the Culture of the Haka... and the Culture of the Jersey with respect.

 

[ranger]

How am I being a bit silly? Its a valid point, A game in Wales between Wales and New Zealand would sell out anyway, regardless of whether the Haka was performed or not. As brilliant and intriguing as the Haka is its just an extra but the game would sell out with the Haka or without the Haka, my point wasn't silly so stop talking **** mate.

Woah chill out mate.. im just giving an opinion theres no need for that.
You asked if i was telling you that if there was no haka, then people wouldn't wouldn't attend. Thats overly expanding my point to make it look flawed, which is just silly. Do you see what i mean here?
Of course the Haka doesn't pull in 100% of the crowd, i never said that it did. It is a drawcard however, and its not as if its merely a favour to NZ that home teams allow them to perform it. The home team benefits aswell.

 

[Amobokoboko]

See, that is something I don't understand. Why pay money to go see a match and only leave after seeing one of the preparations. Ridiculous. I wouldn't pay 40 euro's to hear some people sing an anthem and then leave. I will watch it on tv. What bugs me the most is that people think that the Haka is some kind of wardance.

There are Haka's with different meanings, so there are some war Haka's, anyway it's part of an AB game and really brings atmo in the stadium