[Natwest 6 Nations] Round 3 : Scotland Vs England 24/02/2018 16:45

[Ragey Erasmus]

They're long standing traditions in the host country, visitors should respect them.

Again, do you even know the origin or reason for your traditions? Tradition for tradition sake means nothing.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Again, do you even know the origin or reason for your traditions? Tradition for tradition sake means nothing.

I don't know, it's part of any match that happens at Lansdowne road though and should be respected. It has less meaning than remembrance obviously but there are countries who see remembrance with the same fleeting acknowledgement as this, I'd know this because mine is one of them, we remember WWI and WWII dead along with our other war dead at Easter. I completely disagree with your last statement a tradition is a tradition, it can be monumental like remembrance or mean nothing to anyone but the people who observe it. Have you got no family traditions that started from nothing but repetition or one out of the ordinary event? Either way it should be respected and if you don't respect them don't be surprised or try to push the blame elsewhere when you're criticised or not well liked afterwards.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Aren't we getting confused between a convention and a tradition? I don't follow the family tradition analogy, it's not the random / arbitrary event that creates a tradition, it's how it was received. I don't imagine that the first time that Ireland lined up on the left hand side that the whole of Ireland agreed with a tear in their eyes that it was so much better than lining up on the right hand side and that this must be the done thing from this day forward.

Also, aren't we getting confused between a thread about Scotland vs England and an Anglo-Irish bickering one? Given the universal impression that a media circus follows the Six Nations (particularly Jones), it seems strange that we have so little (on topic) to talk about.

 

[Nudger]

I heard this story direct from a player who was there on the day. The English team were sent out and originally told to stand that side. Then When the little fella who made said mistake asked Johnson to move to the other side he said F off. Doubt Johnson or any of the team gave any thought to which side they were on, they simply weren't willing to move once positioned. Arguably the whole thing could have been mind games on the part of the Irish, and it simply backfired. Let's make the English dance to our tune and get some early psychological advantage. I guess we'll never really know. Didn't go well for Ireland in any event.

I'm pretty sure it was Mike Tyson who said that he won every fight before he ever threw a punch. Mind games are a huge part of top level sport and Jones is a master. He takes all the pressure of his players and piles it onto the other teams and often gets right under the skin of the other teams coaches, which is bound to impact on the team.

And who doesn't love some top bants?

Except the fights he lost

 

[ncurd]

Here's a thing I don't understand.

The way the carpet was laid out couldn't the Irish president just go in a anti-clockwise direction instead of clockwise? And therefore greet the visting team first? If thats what Ireland care about.

Let's be honest we know what happened in the heat of a monumental grand slam match Johnson and England had clearly forgotten which side they were supposed to line up on. They lined up and got told to move. At what point Johnson remembered or knew he was in the wrong is unknown but it was likely after he told protocol officer where to go the first time. Then it comes a matter of backing down which from a mental point of view you just don't do on that kind of match.

Reality is the simple solution was the president should of gone anti-clockwise rather than walk on the mud and the Irish would.ofnly have themselves to blame. Unless someone what to point out theres a reason why it had to be clockwise that makes any sense.

 

[TommiG88]

Can this debate not be left until the England Ireland thread?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Johnson was a belligerent asshole.

Yep, and that's half the reason he ended up lifting a World Cup.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of that particular situation, his sheer bloody mindedness, refusal to take cr*p from anyone and presence set the tempo for the best team we've ever had. Would like to see more of that in the current side. Faz has it, Brown too.

Anyway, back to the match against our kilted friends....

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Looking at this thread I can't wait for the England v Ireland one.

 

[bushytop]

Looking at this thread I can't wait for the England v Ireland one.

Yeah if you both lose today, it'll be set up nicely.

 

[MarkyH]

Silly games are for the teams that are weaker, always..........

Mind games are bullcrap too, normally the press ask a question, the question is answered in a rather normal way but that is then reported with a creative twist, and shouted on message boards in the complete wrong context of the original interview.

 

[MarkyH]

Anyway, still rather confident of an England win, and this is down to EJs coaching and attention to detail. Under Lancaster we'd lose this game.

We have enough pace and tactical ability in the backs to play in the right parts, and pace to attack. We're good attacking and defending the high ball. We're physical enough in the pack to slow Scottish ball down, and dominate in the set piece. If we stand off the Scots, or let them play quick ball all the time then that gives them a good chance, they are much better than us around the breakdown so slowing the ball down will be quite important.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Bookies have England -4, which I'm a little surprised at tbh

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Bookies have England -4, which I'm a little surprised at tbh

As a person who lost yesterday with Italy on +17 because they lost by 17, trust them! I do see England winning bigger though.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Bookies have England -4, which I'm a little surprised at tbh

Seen some have them at -8

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Seen some have them at -8

Bet365 has jumped up to -7
Ireland have jumped from -3 to -7 in the same time as well

I've given up betting on rugby after Tigers ****** my accumulator at the death last week

 

[RedruthRFC]

Bookies have England -4, which I'm a little surprised at tbh

Which bookies are these? I can't see a single one with England -4 at the same price as Scotland +4. Given your comment about the cap on the France vs Italy game, I've starting to wonder if you're lucky enough to have found a local independent with a crack problem!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Which bookies are these? I can't see a single one with England -4 at the same price as Scotland +4. Given your comment about the cap on the France vs Italy game, I've starting to wonder if you're lucky enough to have found a local independent with a crack problem!

I only ever use Bet365

 

[RedruthRFC]

As a person who lost yesterday with Italy on +17 because they lost by 17, trust them! I do see England winning bigger though.

Me too, I took the 21/20 on Betfair 'cos I was logged in there and was lazy. Would rather have taken a slightly shorter price in exchange for a point or two, which would have worked out well in hindsight. Every time I lose a rugby handicap bet, I remember why I say I'll never make one again - very frustrating when the rugby decision differs from the decision you need to cover the cap, e.g. teams kicking for the corner when a pk would bring your handicap home.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Me too, I took the 21/20 on Betfair 'cos I was logged in there and was lazy. Would rather have taken a slightly shorter price in exchange for a point or two, which would have worked out well in hindsight. Every time I lose a rugby handicap bet, I remember why I say I'll never make one again - very frustrating when the rugby decision differs from the decision you need to cover the cap, e.g. teams kicking for the corner when a pk would bring your handicap home.

Tell me about it! I budget 10 quid a month to throw bets on and wouldn't bet in months there's no big golf or rugby events and gave myself am extra 10er for the 6n. Only have my Irish slam bet still alive and the margins I've lost by have been frustratingly slim!

 

[RedruthRFC]

I only ever use Bet365

So *a bookie*, not "bookies". FWIW, Bet365's current handicap doesn't represent a line on the match as England and Scotland are a different price. I suspect this would have been the case on an England -4 handicap. It seem strange that they would move the handicap not the price - surely there's more of an overhead in setting up a new market each time the price changes rather than just changing the price.