[Natwest 6 Nations] Round 3 : Scotland Vs England 24/02/2018 16:45

[TRF_Olyy]

You could have with respect put a line under the 'squabblng' by saying, 'no more posts'. Instead, again with respect, you simply deleted comments that you didn't like or agree with. This upholds other members views that this is not a fair balanced forum at all.

No I deleted the entirety of the topic, not just what I did/didn't agree with.

This the end of it now.

 

[The5thOfficial]

No I deleted the entirety of the topic, not just what I did/didn't agree with.

This the end of it now.

Sure. I'll take your word for it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Removed more off topic nonsense.
Can we just talk about the rugby again?


What do we do with 9 going forwards?
I'm unconvinced by Care starting, but then there's not much in the way of other choices.
I think care definitely plays better when youngs is fit, And vice versa. They push each other to be better and if one is out of form usually the other one isn't.
Im not sure how I feel about dick wiggle starting even if he did have a good cameo off the bench.

 

[ncurd]

Removed more off topic nonsense.

Can we just talk about the rugby again?

I'd say lock the thread but I'm genuinely worried this will follow into England v France

 

[ncurd]

Removed more off topic nonsense.
Can we just talk about the rugby again?


What do we do with 9 going forwards?
I'm unconvinced by Care starting, but then there's not much in the way of other choices.
I think care definitely plays better when youngs is fit, And vice versa. They push each other to be better and if one is out of form usually the other one isn't.
Im not sure how I feel about dick wiggle starting even if he did have a good cameo off the bench.

Whens Youngs due back? Otherwise i think this is what we have to live with.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Don't think he's back until April
At least we've used the opportunity to blood a youngster though, I guess

 

[ncurd]

Thats the problem though this has always been a stop gap. I don't think EJ would of expected Care to be so poor starring and reality is post April he'd have no intention of using anyone else. The only way this will be monumentally stupid if someone get injured again.

He wanted to sure up the 6 nations and keep us winning (didn't work) I can understand why he didn't want to blood an unknown. Shame we didn't have a given win match left like Italy.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

See that's where I disagree
Wigglesworth is experienced enough that he could come into the squad an hour before kick off and play his game,
Would rather get Robson or Velacott some time so we at least have another viable option. Can't just hope youngs and care make it through unscathed.
That said this is kinda beating a dead horse as EJ is set in his ways

 

[RugbyMarvel]

I think against the French, start Wiggy and bench Care.

Wigglesworths kicking game will tire the French out massively, then Care can add some spark. Put points on them in the last 20.

I'd look to bring Robson into an extended squad throughout next weeks prep and before the Ireland game. He might not necessarily get into the 23, but exposure now will be helpful. He can then be introduced into the squad during the summer tour and actually play.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I think against the French, start Wiggy and bench Care.

Wigglesworths kicking game will tire the French out massively, then Care can add some spark. Put points on them in the last 20.

I'd look to bring Robson into an extended squad throughout next weeks prep and before the Ireland game. He might not necessarily get into the 23, but exposure now will be helpful. He can then be introduced into the squad during the summer tour and actually play.

Utter madness. We have to keep playing our usual game, and Wigglesworth is the death of that. He's had two outings and on both was completely not what we needed. Against Wales we had the territory and possession to finish the game off and with any other scrum half on, we would have closed that game with room to spare. Wigglesworth is just too slow in tempo at international level. Against Scotland we needed to chase the game and Wigglesworth wasn't fit for purpose then either.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Utter madness. We have to keep playing our usual game, and Wigglesworth is the death of that. He's had two outings and on both was completely not what we needed. Against Wales we had the territory and possession to finish the game off and with any other scrum half on, we would have closed that game with room to spare. Wigglesworth is just too slow in tempo at international level. Against Scotland we needed to chase the game and Wigglesworth wasn't fit for purpose then either.

England's usual game is an astute kicking game, focusing on the box kick and chasing. Then the forward look to suffocate and strangle sides in the set piece. Ben Youngs did that very effectively. Richard Wigglesworth if he started, would effectively do that role.

Then with 20/30 to go England don't tend to be too far ahead on the scoreboard. Care comes on and against tired legs, ups the tempo and breaks the game up. We then tend to score a lot more in that last quarter, hence often flattering final score lines.

Wigglesworths two outings have been short spells off the bench, a role that isn't utilising his skill set. Against Scotland, Care would have been more effective chasing a game and Wigglesworth would have been arguably more effective trying to work out what was going wrong in the first 60, and alleviating through improving the kicking tactics (our kicking was wayward and often straight down Hogg or Russell's throat.

I don't think Wigglesworth should be England's Scrum half going forward, but he wouldn't do an awful job if he started. Not built for a bench role, especially when England try to open up in the last 1/4.

 

[General Melchett]

Suffocating and strangling the French forwards in Paris will be far from easy. It'll be interesting to see the tactical adjustments EJ makes as he aims to stop France and Ireland replicating the key elements Scotland's game plan. It'll also be interesting to see how he aims to stop Bastareaud who looked impressive in his return against Italy.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Suffocating and strangling the French forwards in Paris will be far from easy. It'll be interesting to see the tactical adjustments EJ makes as he aims to stop France and Ireland replicating Scotland's game plan. It'll also be interesting to see how he aims to stop Bastareaud who looked impressive in his return against Italy.

Tire them out, their conditioning is shocking. Half of them are gasping with hands on knees ten minutes in. A mixture of dragging them around the field with tactical kicking, getting them scrambling in the backfield from chips and contested box kicks and tying them into mauls should do it.

Vaahamina will provide 3/4 penalties if he starts too, especially around mauls.

I doubt the French could replicate the Scottish plan and I don't think they'll try.

It'll be very interesting re Bastareud, although I'd take his performance against the Italians with a pinch of salt, he was facing the Italians at the end of the day and he's well known for blowing hot and cold (and just blowing, get him running off the ball a lot and he will be knackered early doors).

 

[General Melchett]

Tire them out, their conditioning is shocking. Half of them are gasping with hands on knees ten minutes in. A mixture of dragging them around the field with tactical kicking, getting them scrambling in the backfield from chips and contested box kicks and tying them into mauls should do it.

Vaahamina will provide 3/4 penalties if he starts too, especially around mauls.

I doubt the French could replicate the Scottish plan and I don't think they'll try.

It'll be very interesting re Bastareud, although I'd take his performance against the Italians with a pinch of salt, he was facing the Italians at the end of the day and he's well known for blowing hot and cold (and just blowing, get him running off the ball a lot and he will be knackered early doors).

Makes sense and agree about the poor conditioning however Conor Murray box kicked a fair bit in Paris and France still ran them very close and so it'll be very interesting to see what happens next weekend - I can't wait! I don't see France getting anything in Cardiff and so this really is a must win for them otherwise they're looking at a fifth place finish with one win in five which would represent a very poor championship.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Tire them out, their conditioning is shocking. Half of them are gasping with hands on knees ten minutes in. A mixture of dragging them around the field with tactical kicking, getting them scrambling in the backfield from chips and contested box kicks and tying them into mauls should do it.

Vaahamina will provide 3/4 penalties if he starts too, especially around mauls.

I doubt the French could replicate the Scottish plan and I don't think they'll try.

It'll be very interesting re Bastareud, although I'd take his performance against the Italians with a pinch of salt, he was facing the Italians at the end of the day and he's well known for blowing hot and cold (and just blowing, get him running off the ball a lot and he will be knackered early doors).

I'm not sure I buy the conditioning thing, they say that about the French team and clubs and yet I have not seen either blown away in the final minutes of a game.

 

[General Melchett]

France gifted Scotland the win in the last 15 mins with needless penalties and unforced errors as well as running out of steam.

 

[Lomu]

Trying to draw a line under the squabbling hence cleaning up the thread.

Stole my thunder.

Ps Eng didnt learn from Welsh game where they were lucky to earn the win. Massive pool of resources however always keeps them at top table. Safe to say only New Zealand from SH the standard that the top NH teams need to reach. And i think both Eng and Ireland are capable in a one off game.

 

[TommiG88]

Stole my thunder.

Ps Eng didnt learn from Welsh game where they were lucky to earn the win. Massive pool of resources however always keeps them at top table. Safe to say only New Zealand from SH the standard that the top NH teams need to reach. And i think both Eng and Ireland are capable in a one off game.

Lucky to beat Wales? We were the better team for the majority of the game. So much pessimism with this England side.

I understand the point where we didn't learn, as Wales also dominated us at the breakdown.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I like the way we talk about the breakdown as if it's just another facet of play. It's not, it's the single most important one. 15 scrums a match, 20 line outs and 180+ breakdowns. Why wouldn't you have specialists to speed up your ball and slow down / steal theirs? Still scratching my head on this one.

 

[Lomu]

Lucky to beat Wales? We were the better team for the majority of the game. So much pessimism with this England side.

I understand the point where we didn't learn, as Wales also dominated us at the breakdown.

Lucky in the respect that Wales failed to convert chances and territory to points. England ground out the win. Ps theres no pessimism, ive stated previously how good England are and one loss does not make them a poor side. It has removed their cloak of invincibility however and the French and Irish will relish the challenge. Also think EJ can steer them to a WC. He has winning and perfectionist attitude