[Natwest 6 Nations] Round 3 : Scotland Vs England 24/02/2018 16:45

[TRF_Olyy]

When our backs did have possession, one thing that stood out was the shocking standard of passing - head high, ankle high, but seldom out in front at midriff level giving the receiver the chance to run straight onto the ball.

I'm not sure a single pass to the wings went to hand
Well apart from the one where May was in touch, and care really should have kicked it

 

[MarkyH]

Chaotic, rubbish back play because we were desperately looking for front foot ball after being totally dominated at the breakdown..

 

[NDC89]

I can remember one particular example from Brown to Watson. Looked like Watson had a bit of space to run into, and the pass was just awful. Above his head and nearly forward. He only had to pass a few metres too.

 

[MarkyH]

All our fears regarding Brown and the backrow have been showed up in one game.

Other nations to follow Scotlands game plan and EJ will have to make the change :/

 

[Sewin Fisher]

I think it's time to remember this is actually your second loss in this years 6 nations.
Only this time you did not have the TMO to help you out

 

[Scotty]

I think the bonus point system is great and there is no need to change it because some English fan is sad their team mightn't be good enough to still be in it on the final weekend.

If England are mathematically out on the final weekend that is their fault, not some imbalanced and skewed points system.

Agreed it shouldn't be changed because it happened to england, ireland have this championship it seems and have earned it 100% i dont despute it nor am i bitter about it but indont like the fact the a stuation can occure that makes the final weekend irrelevant. Its a huge negative for the 6N which is a great tournament amd supersaterday is normally amazing. I thought this when it was introduced and my opinion hasnt changed, its just been reinforced by this potential situation of the championship being decided on round 4.

 

[mosfeldt]

It is a bit of a pity when the Championship is wrapped up before the final weekend but that's just the nature of the game, you can't control who wins when. The tournament being decided before the final weekend is hardly unique to the new bonus point system though, I'm far too hungover to think of specifics but haven't there been a few cases of this happening before 2017? Now that I say it hadn't England already 2016 in the bag before getting the Slam in France?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It all starts up front. Among many, the 2 areas of most concern were the breakdown and the inability to go forward.

Partly interlinked, but if we're looking towards the RWC, we have players with the attributes to address them. For carrying Genge, Simmonds and Binny are all injured, George is inexplicably on the bench and Sinckler will return. For the breakdown there's Underhill, Curries and Willis. Bit early for Willis, but all these guys could all be in the mix for Japan, and some need to be given the chance now.

As for our much vaunted "world class" locks, none are looking exceptional at the moment. Firmly believe Isiekwe will accelerate up the pecking order before long.

 

[Maverick1987]

I think it's time to remember this is actually your second loss in this years 6 nations.
Only this time you did not have the TMO to help you out

Member since today says it all to me .....

 

[General Melchett]

Where is Valley Commando? Has his Dad banned him from using the internet? I kinda miss his dragon tinted nonsensical posts.

 

[Sewin Fisher]

Member since today says it all to me .....

;-)

 

[Maverick1987]

In fairness I genuinely believe we wouldn't have lost this game if we had played Robshaw at 6 Underhill at 7 and had 8 cover on the bench . We won't have been railroaded at the breakdown then I don't think

 

[Chief Pete]

It all starts up front. Among many, the 2 areas of most concern were the breakdown and the inability to go forward.

Partly interlinked, but if we're looking towards the RWC, we have players with the attributes to address them. For carrying Genge, Simmonds and Binny are all injured, George is inexplicably on the bench and Sinckler will return. For the breakdown there's Underhill, Curries and Willis. Bit early for Willis, but all these guys could all be in the mix for Japan, and some need to be given the chance now.

As for our much vaunted "world class" locks, none are looking exceptional at the moment. Firmly believe Isiekwe will accelerate up the pecking order before long.

Itoje and Kruis haven't been the same since the Lions tour IMO, maybe it's time to bench Itoje for the first time, move Lawes to lock and bring Underhill in at 7.

 

[Genghis]

This is why the Six Nations is so good, there are few boring processions according to seedings, Italy excepted.

Every other game is usually a result of very fine margins: France could easily have beaten Ireland if it wasn't for THAT last minute kick. Wales could have beaten England had a couple of decisions not gone against us. Unbelievably, we might even have stolen the game against Ireland (because The Irish certainly deserved to win)

It also shows how important home advantage is, IMO.

I thought Scotland were excellent against England. Hungry, furious and desperate for the win. They outhustled England up front and their backs were sharper.

I think England play with a great power game, but they always like to play at their own pace. They like to move you from set piece to set piece, slowish build up and crash ball, then a really fast and incisive finish. If you disrupt that rhythm I think they can become a bit one dimensional and stodgy. Surprisingly, despite the undoubted talent that have, they don't really play 'heads up' rugby as well as they should.

All the talk about the ref is meaningless. We got on the wrong side of the ref against Ireland yesterday, especially on the first half .... but that was because he was spotting all of our cheating. Outrageous!

A great weekend of rugby

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

All the talk about the ref is meaningless. We got on the wrong side of the ref against Ireland yesterday, especially on the first half .... but that was because he was spotting all of our cheating. Outrageous!

I can't agree. The rub of the green is just how games go but the Care non-try was dodgy. You can't warn a player to stop something, tell them it's ok when they stop and then the next phase retrospectively decide it is a penalty. You can only pull the game back for a penalty if it's foul play or advantage and in that case it was neither.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Watching this again. How did Owens miss the neck roll on Farrell in the lead up to Maitland's try?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Just need Sco to do a number on Ire in Dublin. Can't see it though.

Jones' reaction will be fascinating. Will he back his men or swing the axe?

 

[Laighin]

This is why the Six Nations is so good, there are few boring processions according to seedings, Italy excepted.

Every other game is usually a result of very fine margins: France could easily have beaten Ireland if it wasn't for THAT last minute kick. Wales could have beaten England had a couple of decisions not gone against us. Unbelievably, we might even have stolen the game against Ireland (because The Irish certainly deserved to win)

It also shows how important home advantage is, IMO.

I thought Scotland were excellent against England. Hungry, furious and desperate for the win. They outhustled England up front and their backs were sharper.

I think England play with a great power game, but they always like to play at their own pace. They like to move you from set piece to set piece, slowish build up and crash ball, then a really fast and incisive finish. If you disrupt that rhythm I think they can become a bit one dimensional and stodgy. Surprisingly, despite the undoubted talent that have, they don't really play 'heads up' rugby as well as they should.

All the talk about the ref is meaningless. We got on the wrong side of the ref against Ireland yesterday, especially on the first half .... but that was because he was spotting all of our cheating. Outrageous!

A great weekend of rugby

Agree with you totally. All teams can beat each other on their day, Italy aside. Ireland were lucky to get out of jail against France when they really should have been out of sight. Even yesterday, the game was in the melting pot and Wales could have snatched it. Wales pushed England all the way in Rd 2 and it might have been different but for small margins. We might not have the skill set of our southern cousins but our championship is damn entertaining all the same!

Regarding the ref's performance I think we're all guilty of a bit of perception bias when digesting the disappointment of a loss. For example I cannot comprehend how anyone would have Barnes on a refereeing pedestal. I remember being left seething from one particular performance of his when we played Wales a few years ago. But hey that was probably my perceived bias at the time. That's not to say that Owens is perfect either. At the end of the day referees are fallible. I don't believe Owens, Barnes or any ref is deliberately biased, as has been suggested on this thread. Can't remember which coach said it but the moment you start blaming referees, you've already lost.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Jones' reaction will be fascinating. Will he back his men or swing the axe?

It's funny because at the start, when he sacked off Burrell at half time down under, we were all saying how great it was to have a ruthless guy not afraid to change things up if it goes wrong
Oh how the turns table

 

[RugbyMarvel]

I have watched the game again, with no beer having been consumed. It was a struggle to watch and I felt pained seeing how awful England were.

Scotland were immense, targeted England's quite obvious deficiencies at the breakdown and were very effective with ball in hand. The performances of Barclay and Watson was what was expected of them when they faced Wales, utterly imperious. Russell thrived on quick ball, Jones was fantastic and Laidlaw managed the game well.

The England pack is so unbalanced its painful. I'd argue that Mako and Hughes are the only actual destructive ball carriers in that pack, the rest being workhorses/lineout specialists. It was so obvious to fans and pundits alike that this selection would fall foul at some point. If the likes of Dan Cole aren't dominating at scrum time then what else is he offering? Williams could offer a lot for 50 and then Sinckler add impetus for 30.

Sadly I still don't think EJ will make wholesale changes. I expect you'll see Vunipola/Hartley/Cole/Itoje/Launchbury/Robshaw/Underhill/Hughes/Care/Ford/Nowell/Farrell/Te'o/Watson/Brown then George/Marler/Williams/Lawes/Haskell/Wigg'worth/Joseph/May...

I'd want to see, in a dream world that is, Vunipola/George/Williams/Itoje/Launchbury/Underhill/B.Curry/Hughes/Care/Farrell/Nowell/Te'o/Daly (if fit)/May/Watson then Cowan-Dickie/Marler/Sinckler/Lawes/Simmonds/Robson/Ford/Lozowski...

In regards to Nigel Owens.... I felt he was awful. The Launchbury/Care intercept decision was baffling and after watching it again and again, plain wrong. His officiating of the breakdown was totally dependant on which side had the ball and I felt England got overly penalised whereas the Scots got way with a lot more. Owens is falling into the same trap as Steve "Hollywood" Walsh, all about the sound bites and how he looks. Its quite frankly boring.

HOWEVER - I do not think this lost the game for England. The Scottish produced a world beating performance and England were not at the races.