June Internationals - South Africa vs. Scotland (15/06/2013)

[sifplay]

I agree on Ruan Pienaar - he kept picking up the ball, taking two or three steps to look who to pass to and finally passed. The result was very laboured and predictable ball.

I think Ulster get more out of him as they use him as their main playmaker, so he decides what to do. In the Boks he's a cog in a machine, but he isn't able to get quick ball to etc anywhere near as quick as a lot of the other halfbacks.

You are correct. But it is hard to attack from half back when the outside backs are coming forwards. The answer is to get Steyn to stand flatter.

 

[TRF_heineken]

You are correct. But it is hard to attack from half back when the outside backs are coming forwards. The answer is to get Steyn to stand flatter.

The problem is that Ruan takes 4 steps backwards, the entire backline has to wait for him to go forward. If Steyn was any flatter, every pass would have been forward from Pienaar.

 

[sifplay]

The problem is that Ruan takes 4 steps backwards, the entire backline has to wait for him to go forward. If Steyn was any flatter, every pass would have been forward from Pienaar.

Reason why he takes 4 steps back because there is standing bloody huge forwards in the way or trying to run onto the pass rather than a backline player or Steyn. Steyn after all is the commander and chief and should be running the show. You can actually go from a flat to deep alignment simply by letting the man on your inside depart first – presto, you are now deep

 

[TRF_heineken]

Reason why he takes 4 steps back because there is standing bloody huge forwards in the way or trying to run onto the pass rather than a backline player or Steyn. Steyn after all is the commander and chief and should be running the show. You can actually go from a flat to deep alignment simply by letting the man on your inside depart first – presto, you are now deep

If the Scrumhalf passes directly from the ruck, then Steyn or whoever else, can stand wherever they want. The big forwards can't take out Ruan as he is the scrumhalf, and if they do, then we get a penalty. Unfortunately Poite didn't manage to handle the rucks how he should have. So we had to adapt, causing us to get poor front foot ball and trying to make something out of nothing. Lambie didn't do much better when he came on.

 

[sifplay]

If the Scrumhalf passes directly from the ruck, then Steyn or whoever else, can stand wherever they want. The big forwards can't take out Ruan as he is the scrumhalf, and if they do, then we get a penalty. Unfortunately Poite didn't manage to handle the rucks how he should have. So we had to adapt, causing us to get poor front foot ball and trying to make something out of nothing. Lambie didn't do much better when he came on.

Big forwards are our own forwards. And Steyn standing deep who ever the hell he passes to gets gang tackled 5 6 meters behind the gain line every time. So no he can't stand where ever he want.

Boks gave too many cues away about who is to get the ball, and the Scots read us like a Wilbur Smith novel. Until the we come up with an attacking formula that allows us to hit either the forwards or the backs or both in the same play without sending the obvious signals to the defenders, we will continue to struggle with slow ball, defenses that are set and little continuity. We sent a flat line of forward runners promoting themselves to receive the ball and a deep line of backs to get the ball behind the forwards.

 

[Draggs]

You NH guys are funny. I enjoyed your posts.


As for the match, man it was ugly and dirty, and what made it worse was Poite's handling of the breakdown area, I thought he was rather poor. Strokosch deliberately tried to slow up our ball every time he could. At the rucks he more than once came in from the side, climbed over and put his foot around the ball. Here I blame Ruan Pienaar as well, he didn't free up the ball quicker, and as expected, Piet Van Zyl did just that when he came on.

It was a match of 2 halves for the boks, first half was dire, especially by guys like Adriaan Strauss. Poor line out throws, obstructive running, and all that 5 m out from the damn tryline!!!

Draggs, i think you were a bit harsh on Spies, he made a lot of tackles, and some good runs, which is more than what could be said about Marcel Coetzee. Siya was immense, and it's a pity Arno got injured so early, as I think if he stayed on, with Kolisi coming in, we would've got a lot more points on the board.

Welcome back Bismarck!!

Not happy with how we played, but at least we now got some questions answered. No, Marcell, is not a solution at 6. Yes, Siya should be in the bok squad. Yes, Ruan Pienaar can ****off back to Ireland. Yes, Eben has learnt from his previous mistakes on how to react.

...what about me...

yeah Coetzee has been poor, not been impressed with him this season.
Not been a fan of Pienaar either, everybody has been going on about him for a while now, but I always said he was ponderous and ineffective. Not sure about Engelbrecht in midfield. I'd consider him on the wing if anywhere right now, but not over Habana, Mvovo, Basson, or even Pietersen.

... Bismarck, I seriously hope John gets his name on the dotted line soon.

poor calls by JdV. I can understand wanting to go for the try five metres out, but when you are only four points down, just take the points on offer

 

[TRF_heineken]

Big forwards are our own forwards. And Steyn standing deep who ever the hell he passes to gets gang tackled 5 6 meters behind the gain line every time. So no he can't stand where ever he want.

Boks gave too many cues away about who is to get the ball, and the Scots read us like a Wilbur Smith novel. Until the we come up with an attacking formula that allows us to hit either the forwards or the backs or both in the same play without sending the obvious signals to the defenders, we will continue to struggle with slow ball, defenses that are set and little continuity. We sent a flat line of forward runners promoting themselves to receive the ball and a deep line of backs to get the ball behind the forwards.

In that case, all the more reason that Pienaar was poor. He is the link between the forwards and the backs, if they are in the way, he should direct them where they should and shouldn't be. If he doesn't get clean ball he should send them in to clear the ruck. The backs can only work with what they got. But okay, continue with your tirade against Bulls/Steyn. Nothing we're not used to by now.

@Draggs, you're an exception to the rule, (you and Zeke) but that's because you support Saffa teams.

 

[Draggs]

Awwww, cheers dear. I thought we would be worse than the rest, being Durban wannabes.
Quite funny to see everybody freaking out about SA winning. If the yellow was the other way it would be dirty Saffa so and so.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Awwww, cheers dear. I thought we would be worse than the rest, being Durban wannabes.
Quite funny to see everybody freaking out about SA winning. If the yellow was the other way it would be dirty Saffa so and so.

Exactly! If his hands were 2cm higher, it would've been an eye rake! Guess that's just the double standard us Saffas have to get used to.

Reports are that Arno Botha will be out for at least 8 weeks with his knee injury. Feel really bad for him.

 

[Draggs]

Exactly! If his hands were 2cm higher, it would've been an eye rake! Guess that's just the double standard us Saffas have to get used to.

Reports are that Arno Botha will be out for at least 8 weeks with his knee injury. Feel really bad for him.

Especially with his fingers spread out, it wasn't even a straight push. Right in front of the assistant referee, what a dullard.
Gutted for Arno, good little player... Well not really small.

 

[psychic duck]

Jim Hamilton proved why he wasn't and shouldn't be in Lions consideration.

He's just lacks a brain and concedes dumb penalties/yellow cards. The Aussies would have had an easy time winding him up and getting him to do something stupid.

Remember Scotland vs Wales this year when Hamilton charged into a ruck to gift Wales a lead right on 40 minutes at half time?

Adam Jones' reaction summed up the truth. He is a bit stupid.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Especially with his fingers spread out, it wasn't even a straight push. Right in front of the assistant referee, what a dullard.
Gutted for Arno, good little player... Well not really small.

Ditto! And to refer that was a good move. The Yellow card was warranted and he got what he deserved, I wonder if he'll be cited though. The best part of that was the slow motion replay of Etzebeth's face after the push. That was classic.

With regards to the TMO, that one try of the Scots where obstruction took place, what was the reason for overruling the obstruction? Sorry to ask this, I'm in the bush and haven't got a tv here to rewatch the game.

 

[Seaton]

Ditto! And to refer that was a good move. The Yellow card was warranted and he got what he deserved, I wonder if he'll be cited though. The best part of that was the slow motion replay of Etzebeth's face after the push. That was classic.

With regards to the TMO, that one try of the Scots where obstruction took place, what was the reason for overruling the obstruction? Sorry to ask this, I'm in the bush and haven't got a tv here to rewatch the game.

Poite I think said he was happy that no obstruction took place, which I am inclined to agree as Coetzee made the tackle and probably had even overrun and would have missed the player/tackled further behind the advantage if the attacking player wasn't forced to backtrack.

And I certainly hope those yellows don't filter down to club and school rugby, otherwise there will be no-one left on the pitch by half-time in games in SA.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I also agree there was no obstruction; neither Coetzee nor the attacking player had made contact with the dummy runner even though they did cross lines.


I don't think Etzebeth held his calm though (I dont think Etzebeth has any calm); we can be glad the other Scottish lock held him back otherwise both teams would have had a lock in the bin. I don't see Eben as a dirty player ala Bakkies at the end (last 2 years) but he needs to learn to rein in that temper of his and when to release it (at the rucks!).

 

[Sker]

Yeah Eben's face was pretty priceless

 

[SomeOke]

I don't think Etzebeth held his calm though (I dont think Etzebeth has any calm); we can be glad the other Scottish lock held him back otherwise both teams would have had a lock in the bin. I don't see Eben as a dirty player ala Bakkies at the end (last 2 years) but he needs to learn to rein in that temper of his and when to release it (at the rucks!).

Have to agree with this a lot of people are saying he's dirty but it's more the fact that he's easily provoked, ala Pocock. Obviously something he needs to sort out and channel properly .

 

[Sker]

I don't think Etzebeth have done anything to deserve being called dirty? Has he? I think it's because people are comparing him to Bakkies and now suddenly he's a dirty player as well.

I could be wrong though?

Although in my experience that sounds exactly like thing people would do, and in my experience, people aren't very bright.

Then again, could be wrong.

 

[SomeOke]

I don't think Etzebeth have done anything to deserve being called dirty? Has he? I think it's because people are comparing him to Bakkies and now suddenly he's a dirty player as well.

I could be wrong though?

Although in my experience that sounds exactly like thing people would do, and in my experience, people aren't very bright.

Then again, could be wrong.

A few people were saying he was dirty in this thread, in fact "one of the dirtiest around" I don't agree of course.

 

[sifplay]

A few people were saying he was dirty in this thread, in fact "one of the dirtiest around" I don't agree of course.

Who cares what they say. Most are just disgruntle Lions supporters