June Internationals: Canada vs. Ireland (15/06/13)

[poopiepeople]

Second half was devastating...

I did enjoy the aggression today though, made the game seem a little more passionate. Also seemed like Braid was in the thick of all the little "rumbles" tonight. Does it also make me bit of a dick to worry every time Sean White come on the pitch?

 

[big ginger 8]

Irish is closer to Latin than any Germanic language. Latin broke away from the Celtic languages and I'm sure I read it was similar to the language of the Gauls - who spoke a Celtic language.

Irish doesn't even have the same alphabet as Latin. The five main European languages which include German come from Latin.

 

[profitius]

Irish doesn't even have the same alphabet as Latin. The five main European languages which include German come from Latin.

You don't understand what I'm saying, I spent hours examining it. Latin words have been borrowed by many languages and probably more so in English etc than Irish but languages are structured differently and Irish is in the Celto/Latin category while English and German are in the Germanic category.

You can't go on words alone ie Kingdom = Reich in German = Ríocht in Irish. Reich is a Celtic word but German isn't a Celtic language. English adopted many Latin words but it doesn't make it a Latin language.

 

[LittleGuy]

I don't have too mcuh to add to what the Canadian fans have already said I guess here a few of my thoughts. The scoreline was a little harsh on us I think a 14-20 point Irish win would have been more realistic, the injuries just left us shocking back there in the Centres, Hiryama had a few odd moments and Braid was pretty terrible, on a plus side Paris had some breaks and Pritchard was ever reliable on the wing. The 4th Irish try was a farce, that should have been a yellow card not a seven pointer the other way(on a personal note, as the crowd went silent a replay was shown at which point I yelled THATS ****ING BULL**** at the top of my lungs to some laughs). Marshall can't keep his head when Canada are losing. Bench had virtually no impact, White was neutral and Dala added a bit of a spark but the rest were passengers.

Crowd was great, though for some reason I thought last year vs. Italy the crowd were a little more passionate even when we were winning. I loved the ovation Pritch got though when he broke the record. Going to be extremely tough vs. Japan next week the forwards will be tired and it look like Hearn took a decent knock from that forearm, our backline could be a university side.

Edit: Some personal stories, got loaded pre match with afrikaaners who'd escpaed South Africa to come here , got stuck on a train jam packed full of 15 year old Taylor Swfit fans on the ride home for the trainride from hell LMAO. And my night was essentially awesome till the elbow in Hearns face abd kind of collpased after that.

 

[usausa]

Edit: Some personal stories, got loaded pre match with afrikaaners who'd escpaed South Africa to come here , got stuck on a train jam packed full of 15 year old Taylor Swfit fans on the ride home for the trainride from hell LMAO. And my night was essentially awesome till the elbow in Hearns face abd kind of collpased after that.

What's wrong with T-Swift?!?!?!

 

[LittleGuy]

What's wrong with T-Swift?!?!?!

I assume you've never had to see one train go right past you waiting at a stop and than be forced to ride the next half leg on a seat avoiding accidentally pulling the emergency brake cord...LOL. In all fairness I have no problem with swift or the girls the Toronto transit just needs to have more frequent trains or add more cars, it was a little ridiculous their planning.

Edit: I have a pic of Pritchard and his record breaker, I think it's him just watching it goover I'll try to upload it tommorow.

 

[Peat]

You don't understand what I'm saying, I spent hours examining it. Latin words have been borrowed by many languages and probably more so in English etc than Irish but languages are structured differently and Irish is in the Celto/Latin category while English and German are in the Germanic category.

You can't go on words alone ie Kingdom = Reich in German = Ríocht in Irish. Reich is a Celtic word but German isn't a Celtic language. English adopted many Latin words but it doesn't make it a Latin language.

Judging from this conversation, this game must have been absolutely fascinating.

Also, while I haven't studied this area as much as I'd like, as far as I can tell you're both wrong. Latin isn't a Celtic breakaway and German certainly doesn't come from Latin. There's a reason Latin and the Romance languages aren't part of the Celtic branch of Indo-European when you look at the family trees, and a reason German doesn't feature in the Romance/Italic branch. Yes, German has its share of Latin influences, but doesn't make it a Romance language, not one bit.

 

[Shaggy]

I don't have too mcuh to add to what the Canadian fans have already said I guess here a few of my thoughts. The scoreline was a little harsh on us I think a 14-20 point Irish win would have been more realistic, the injuries just left us shocking back there in the Centres, Hiryama had a few odd moments and Braid was pretty terrible, on a plus side Paris had some breaks and Pritchard was ever reliable on the wing. The 4th Irish try was a farce, that should have been a yellow card not a seven pointer the other way(on a personal note, as the crowd went silent a replay was shown at which point I yelled THATS ****ING BULL**** at the top of my lungs to some laughs). Marshall can't keep his head when Canada are losing. Bench had virtually no impact, White was neutral and Dala added a bit of a spark but the rest were passengers.

Crowd was great, though for some reason I thought last year vs. Italy the crowd were a little more passionate even when we were winning. I loved the ovation Pritch got though when he broke the record. Going to be extremely tough vs. Japan next week the forwards will be tired and it look like Hearn took a decent knock from that forearm, our backline could be a university side.

Edit: Some personal stories, got loaded pre match with afrikaaners who'd escpaed South Africa to come here , got stuck on a train jam packed full of 15 year old Taylor Swfit fans on the ride home for the trainride from hell LMAO. And my night was essentially awesome till the elbow in Hearns face abd kind of collpased after that.

... Just a standard Saturday night out for you then LG?

 

[LittleGuy]

... Just a standard Saturday night out for you then LG?

I think they loved my response when they asked so what position did you play? "Lock....on the midget XV"

 

[Shaggy]

I think they loved my response when they asked so what position did you play? "Lock....on the midget XV"

... Nice, I didn't realise 15 year old Taylor Swift fans had such an interest in Rugby ... oh, you meant the South African guys

 

[LittleGuy]

... Nice, I didn't realise 15 year old Taylor Swift fans had such an interest in Rugby ... oh, you meant the South African guys

Oddly enough one did ask who had won since apparently she played at school, if rugby games lasted 55 minutes I would have been more than happy to tell her the result.

 

[Shaggy]

Oddly enough one did ask who had won since apparently she played at school, if rugby games lasted 55 minutes I would have been more than happy to tell her the result.

Yes, they were competitive for the first 50 - 60 minutes ... just have to regroup for the Japan match now ... quite impressed with how the Canadian squad has performed so far this year - it hopefully means things are going to get better in the next few years

 

[canadafan]

My Canada player rankings:

15. Connor Braid: Showed his nerves early and often with two high balls knocked on, did scramble fiarly well in D and atleast had the courage to run at the Irish line. Needs to find a tier 2 pro club in Europe to let him play at his preferred position of FH as he is still only 23. 3/10

14. James Pritchard: 3 or 4 form the boot and now Canada's all time scoring leader. Played his heart out but out of his normal position of FB, was beaten outside for Ireland's first try but had some good runs as well. 6/10

13. Ciaran Hearn: The scary part, this was one of his better games for Canada. Sacrified his face to try to get a penalty for Canada on one of Ireland's second half tries. 4/10

12. Harry Jones: Was he even on the pitch? I can't remember anything about him. 2/10

11. Taylor Paris: One of our few backs that actually attacked the Irish line and managed to break the line on occassion. He is still only 21 and will keep getting better. 6/10

10. Nathan Hirayama: One of his worst games in a Canada XVs jersey and that is saying a lot. He played scared the entire time, can't recall him ever attacking the line. His passes were slow and lazy, almost gifted Ireland a couple of intercept tries, was scared to make a tackle, knocked on on simple backline plays to kill our momentum as well. 1/10

9. Phil Mack: His delivery was okay, but he didn't 'take the bulls by the horn' when it was ovbious that Hirayama was too busy screwing the neighbour's pooch. He could have attacked the fringes around the rucks more to keep the Irish D honest. Not sold on him as our long term 9. 4/10

8. Aaron Carpenter (c): Played well at the base of the scrum and helped set up Canada's only try with a good run. Tackled well and often until our forwards tired in the second half. 6/10

7. John Moonlight: Tackled well, but don't remember much else about his play to be honest. 6/10

6. Tyler Ardron: Scored Canada's only try, but was also lucky to avoid another yellow card. Is still only 21 but will only get better, he stepped up to the plate today and never backed down. Canada's MOM. 8/10

5. Tyler Hotson: Only time I really remember seeing him on the pitch was yelling at one of other players before a line out. We missed Cudmore's grit today. 4/10

4. Jebb Sinclair: Tackled well like the other Canadian forwards until the late second half collapse. Made some big hits as well, and took some too. 6/10

3. Jason Marshall: Scrum went well and he tackled well, did lose who cool in the second half, but it is not like it cost us the game or anything. 5/10

2. Ray Barkwill: Played like he had a point to prove, but only came across like he needed to take anger management classes. Gave away lots of penalties and was subbed early for it. 4/10

1. Hugh Buydens: Scrum well and made his tackles, plus he didn't pull anyone's hair. 6/10

Replacements:

16. Ryan Hamilton: Came on for Barkwill, at least he didn't get injured. 3/10

17. Andrew Tiedemann: Did he get on the pitch? 2/10

18. Doug Wooldridge: Did he get on the pitch? 2/10

19. John Phelan: Came on for Hotson, but didn't add much to the game. 3/10

20. Nanyak Dala: Came on for Moonlight (I think), was his usual self, but it wasn't enough to turn the tide for Canada. 4/10

21. Sean White: Came on for Mack, but added nothing to the match. Probably should have started though. 4/10

22. Liam Underwood: Came on for Jones, but should have started at 10 instead of Hirayama. 3/10

23. Pat Parfrey: Came on for someone, not sure who, probably Paris. 2/10

 

[profitius]

Looking back over the 2 games I thought Canada offered more in attack that the USA. Ireland were much better against Canada and if they played the way they played last week would probably have lost the game.

Judging from this conversation, this game must have been absolutely fascinating.

Also, while I haven't studied this area as much as I'd like, as far as I can tell you're both wrong. Latin isn't a Celtic breakaway and German certainly doesn't come from Latin. There's a reason Latin and the Romance languages aren't part of the Celtic branch of Indo-European when you look at the family trees, and a reason German doesn't feature in the Romance/Italic branch. Yes, German has its share of Latin influences, but doesn't make it a Romance language, not one bit.

I think I'm right. Below is a list of the words gold and silver which were used in ancient times. As you can see, Germanic/Slavic are similar while Celtic/Latin are similar.

Germanic is closer to Balto-Slavic than to Italo-Celtic. :

English - Silver - Gold
German - Silber - Gold
Danish - Sølv - Guld
Gothic - Silubr - Gulth
Lithuanian - Sidabras - (Auksas)
Latvian - Sudabra - Zelta
Bulgarian - Srebro - Zlato
Czech - Stribrna - Zlato
Russian - Serebra - Zolota
Thracian - (unattested) - Saldas

Latin - Argentum - Aurum
Irish - Airgead - Or
Welsh - Arian - Aur
Gaulish - Argenton - (*Auron - reconstructed)
Celtiberian - Arkanta - (unattested)
Albanian - Argjend - Ar

What is know of Gaulish and Lepontic Celtic shows that it was very similar to Latin. The syntax and grammar were apparently almost identical and many words very also identical or similar enough to be intelligible.

For example, the Gaulish word for "horse" is equos and the Latin is equus. Divine is divo in Gaulish and divinus in Latin. King is rix in Gaulish and rex in Latin [Rí in Irish]. Gauls drank cervesia ("beer") while Romans had cervisia. Mediolanum, Milan's ancient name, can mean "middle plain" in either Celtic or Latin.

Some words seem to have their letters jumbled from one language to the other. The Latin mundus ("world") is dumno in Gaulish [domhain in Irish]. A bull is taurus (or tavrvs as Romans didn't distinguish "v" from "u") in Latin, but tarvos in Gaulish [Tarbh (pron Tarv) in Irish].

 

[munstermuffin]

Must say great trip and enjoyed sightseeing in US and Canada. On games it's good to get guys experience and it does leave Schmidt with a bit of food for thought. Must say I thought Downey played very well and we may get a year out of him if needed. But the tour still ends with same issues. Besides Ross we are empty at TH, 2nd row is an issue for depth.

 

[Peat]

I think I'm right. Below is a list of the words gold and silver which were used in ancient times. As you can see, Germanic/Slavic are similar while Celtic/Latin are similar.

Hmm. Fair enough, I must confess, I am not as knowledgable on the score as I'd like - that said, Gaulish almost looks more similar to Latin than it does to Gaelic... there is a known Gaulish influence on Latin, I just didn't think it was that big. Don't suppose you know when the divergences between Continental and Insular Celtic started to show? We should probably take this to off-topic...

 

[munstermuffin]

And I get nominated for bad grammar when ye 2 Einsteins discuss Latin no wonder I be confussed

 

[profitius]

You'll be fine as long as you escape the grammer police MM!


POM was the player of the tour. Delighted for him because his place in the team has always been questioned by people who have rarely seen him play.
Madigan played well although there was a 10 minute period against Canada when he was all over the place. I wonder is it Kiss telling him to play more conservatively.
McFadden also justified his selection. Pound for pound he is a very good athlete and works his socks off.

Next match is the start of the Schmidt era. I'm looking forward to see Ireland play a better brand of rugby. Samoa are the next opponents. Thats not an easy start for Schmidt but one they should win.

Hmm. Fair enough, I must confess, I am not as knowledgable on the score as I'd like - that said, Gaulish almost looks more similar to Latin than it does to Gaelic... there is a known Gaulish influence on Latin, I just didn't think it was that big. Don't suppose you know when the divergences between Continental and Insular Celtic started to show? We should probably take this to off-topic...

Peat, this is a good site for it. http://www.eupedia.com/forum/forums/126-Linguistics

The thread relevant to what we're discussing is here: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...th-Celtic-languages-to-form-Romance-languages

 

[psychic duck]

My Canada player rankings:

15. Connor Braid: Showed his nerves early and often with two high balls knocked on, did scramble fiarly well in D and atleast had the courage to run at the Irish line. Needs to find a tier 2 pro club in Europe to let him play at his preferred position of FH as he is still only 23. 3/10

14. James Pritchard: 3 or 4 form the boot and now Canada's all time scoring leader. Played his heart out but out of his normal position of FB, was beaten outside for Ireland's first try but had some good runs as well. 6/10

13. Ciaran Hearn: The scary part, this was one of his better games for Canada. Sacrified his face to try to get a penalty for Canada on one of Ireland's second half tries. 4/10

12. Harry Jones: Was he even on the pitch? I can't remember anything about him. 2/10

11. Taylor Paris: One of our few backs that actually attacked the Irish line and managed to break the line on occassion. He is still only 21 and will keep getting better. 6/10

10. Nathan Hirayama: One of his worst games in a Canada XVs jersey and that is saying a lot. He played scared the entire time, can't recall him ever attacking the line. His passes were slow and lazy, almost gifted Ireland a couple of intercept tries, was scared to make a tackle, knocked on on simple backline plays to kill our momentum as well. 1/10

9. Phil Mack: His delivery was okay, but he didn't 'take the bulls by the horn' when it was ovbious that Hirayama was too busy screwing the neighbour's pooch. He could have attacked the fringes around the rucks more to keep the Irish D honest. Not sold on him as our long term 9. 4/10

8. Aaron Carpenter (c): Played well at the base of the scrum and helped set up Canada's only try with a good run. Tackled well and often until our forwards tired in the second half. 6/10

7. John Moonlight: Tackled well, but don't remember much else about his play to be honest. 6/10

6. Tyler Ardron: Scored Canada's only try, but was also lucky to avoid another yellow card. Is still only 21 but will only get better, he stepped up to the plate today and never backed down. Canada's MOM. 8/10

5. Tyler Hotson: Only time I really remember seeing him on the pitch was yelling at one of other players before a line out. We missed Cudmore's grit today. 4/10

4. Jebb Sinclair: Tackled well like the other Canadian forwards until the late second half collapse. Made some big hits as well, and took some too. 6/10

3. Jason Marshall: Scrum went well and he tackled well, did lose who cool in the second half, but it is not like it cost us the game or anything. 5/10

2. Ray Barkwill: Played like he had a point to prove, but only came across like he needed to take anger management classes. Gave away lots of penalties and was subbed early for it. 4/10

1. Hugh Buydens: Scrum well and made his tackles, plus he didn't pull anyone's hair. 6/10

Replacements:

16. Ryan Hamilton: Came on for Barkwill, at least he didn't get injured. 3/10

17. Andrew Tiedemann: Did he get on the pitch? 2/10

18. Doug Wooldridge: Did he get on the pitch? 2/10

19. John Phelan: Came on for Hotson, but didn't add much to the game. 3/10

20. Nanyak Dala: Came on for Moonlight (I think), was his usual self, but it wasn't enough to turn the tide for Canada. 4/10

21. Sean White: Came on for Mack, but added nothing to the match. Probably should have started though. 4/10

22. Liam Underwood: Came on for Jones, but should have started at 10 instead of Hirayama. 3/10

23. Pat Parfrey: Came on for someone, not sure who, probably Paris. 2/10

These ratings are very harsh.

Canada were never going to win with half a team injured. They nearly had as many injuries and doubts (some of the players may not have been 100% and carrying knocks) for this match as Ireland had Lions tourists. And of course they don't have the depth.

If a substitute came on and hardly got the chance to do anything, a bit harsh to give them a 2 or 3. I thought Phil Mack did well in the first half as well. If an injury wrecked Canada team gets this despite putting in an okay 55 minute effort before fading badly, then I wonder what your ratings would have been for the players in some of the Canada matches in the past, such as the 2008 November tour for example.

Canada had over talked up chances for this anyway. They were on a winning streak of 3 in the PNC, but look at the circumstances of the matches. Both Fiji and Tonga had a load of factors effecting them, whilst the USA game was hard to read anything into with both equally weakened.

The bookies handicap for this one was 10, compared to 17 for the USA game. But realistically, a team without Cudmore, van der Merwe, Mackenzie, Trainor, Hassler etc plus a few others who were beat up going into this was never going to win and would have done well just to come close.

 

[LittleGuy]

These ratings are very harsh.

Canada were never going to win with half a team injured. They nearly had as many injuries and doubts (some of the players may not have been 100% and carrying knocks) for this match as Ireland had Lions tourists. And of course they don't have the depth.

If a substitute came on and hardly got the chance to do anything, a bit harsh to give them a 2 or 3. I thought Phil Mack did well in the first half as well. If an injury wrecked Canada team gets this despite putting in an okay 55 minute effort before fading badly, then I wonder what your ratings would have been for the players in some of the Canada matches in the past, such as the 2008 November tour for example.

Canada had over talked up chances for this anyway. They were on a winning streak of 3 in the PNC, but look at the circumstances of the matches. Both Fiji and Tonga had a load of factors effecting them, whilst the USA game was hard to read anything into with both equally weakened.

The bookies handicap for this one was 10, compared to 17 for the USA game. But realistically, a team without Cudmore, van der Merwe, Mackenzie, Trainor, Hassler etc plus a few others who were beat up going into this was never going to win and would have done well just to come close.

It's really dissapointed me that the rugby media haven't mentioned this, I've read ridiculous headlines about a "depleted Ireland" winning and no mention of the fact that Canada had only one first choice starting from #10-15 and a couple were 4th choice players like Jones, and some of the bench should not be playing vs. A Tier One side, sadly this backline might have looked good compared to what we might send up against Japan.