June Internationals: Argentina v England, Second Test (15/06/13)

[psychic duck]

Well, I think that there isn't much difference between Argentina and Scotland. Remember that in the RWC 2011, Pumas almost lost to Scotland. They won by a player individual play. And last year, Argentina couldn't beat Springboks, while Scotland with many rookies had a great game against South Africa the other day.

I think that Phelan should not resign, Argentina don't have much money to hire a foreign coach of the highest level, are very expensive. Argentina should aspire to develop their coaches for evolution Argentine rugby can be sustained over time. I would like Phelan given an opportunity to young players like: Santiago Cordero, Facundo Isa, Felipe Ezcurra and Patricio Fernandez.

Regards

When Ireland, England or Wales drop down to Scotland standard or below. They sack their coach and make changes.

Argentina have been far too tolerant of mediocrity under Phelan's 5 year reign to be honest. The fact he got a new contract for merely sneaking a win over Scotland says it all.

 

[Superalexmarket]

Well, I think that there isn't much difference between Argentina and Scotland. Remember that in the RWC 2011, Pumas almost lost to Scotland. They won by a player individual play. And last year, Argentina couldn't beat Springboks, while Scotland with many rookies had a great game against South Africa the other day.

I think that Phelan should not resign, Argentina don't have much money to hire a foreign coach of the highest level, are very expensive. Argentina should aspire to develop their coaches for evolution Argentine rugby can be sustained over time. I would like Phelan given an opportunity to young players like: Santiago Cordero, Facundo Isa, Felipe Ezcurra and Patricio Fernandez.

Regards

No need for a foreign coach, Loffreda did a very good job just a years ago, respecting the argentine style of play. We must back to our sources.
How could you imagine just a few years ago, that any team would dare ask to play several scrums against the Pumas in their home, and made 2 tries penalties by this way?
The scrum was the trade mark of the Pumas, what it happend yesterday was very humiliating.

 

[psychic duck]

No need for a foreign coach, Loffreda did a very good job just a years ago, respecting the argentine style of play. We must back to our sources.
How could you imagine just a few years ago, that any team would dare ask to play several scrums against the Pumas in their home, and made 2 tries penalties by this way?
The scrum was the trade mark of the Pumas, what it happend yesterday was very humiliating.

That wouldn't happen when Ayerza, Figallo and Albacete return. So has little relevance to the first team. Argentina strength is increasingly lying more in the back three than front row these days, and they should play accordingly.

 

[Big Ewis]

Ok enough, it is time for a deep restructuring of the Argentinian Rugby.
We can not have 4 or 5 teams to meet different commitments, we are not New Zealand, South Africa or England to afford that. We must have a solid base of players and play with them all year long, rotating only a few of them, and having one development team (Pampas XV would be a good option) and Jaguars for smaller tournaments.
And if this brings problems with European clubs, just go to hell with them! If we don't do something right now, we will end as Scotland, unfortunately.
Ahh... and Phelan, thanks for everything ... and go home. Ok?

:rofl: I love how the poor Scots are taking it all in their face as reference for anything shytty these days in rugby !! I'm GLAD there aren't many at all on this forum, I feel terribly guilty laughing at their expense !
But no way amigo; I don't care what Argentina C accomplishes; the Pumas aren't going anywhere but UP. Maybe not this year, but soon they're winning their first ever against NZ. I'm very excited for Argentina this coming TRC, and I know we'll see at least one victory, and it's no easy task !! Even one.

 

[Crapspray]

I knew this was coming, but it doesn't mean anything after what I've seen. I dunno exactly how bad France played that first test, dunno exactly who played on either side. I know we blew them out in the second but that Argie team was better than this right here, no question. This was just ridiculous, and everybody knows it. You've seen the kind of defense they played, and the scrum. These two things alone are downright laughable, literally. Attack wasn't miserable in the second test though, at times.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to make them seem better than they were. Nor was it a dig. Rather that they had the potential to catch England out, as they did to France last year; particularly as England are a young team.

 

[Jaguares]

No need for a foreign coach, Loffreda did a very good job just a years ago, respecting the argentine style of play. We must back to our sources.
How could you imagine just a few years ago, that any team would dare ask to play several scrums against the Pumas in their home, and made 2 tries penalties by this way?
The scrum was the trade mark of the Pumas, what it happend yesterday was very humiliating.

Yeah, but you have to recognize that Argentina don't have many forwards of high level, for example: If don't play Patricio Albacete, Pumas don't have a lock of high level to replace him. That's not coach's fault!

Pumas don't have many good players to form two competitive teams, that is no fault of Phelan. You are unfair to him, Argentina played many high-level games in the last Rugby Championship.

Regards

 

[Aristodemus]

I think if you give 36 the authority to do it, he can organise, and Eastmond is a bossy little **** (I mean that in a good way) and after another season I would back him to develope the requisite defensive understanding too.

@Aristo...

I think we've seen the benefits of a balanced selection here and Launchbury and Parling are too similar. Although they differ in styles, I don't think you lose anything overall by taking Attwood over Parling as they are both very good lineout callers and have good, effective workrates. Attwood has the benefit of being ****ing enormous, which is something that really helps in the scrum and tight.

Davey Wilson is not as good as Cole at the breakdown and Dan has a much better engine, but Wilson is a significantly better scrummager and ball carrier.
They should at least be rotated. I am a very big fan of both of them, and in any case they are both leagues ahead of anyone else.

Hmm perhaps you are right regarding the locks, but if it is one or the other then you have to go with Launchbury. I think you would ideally have Croft at 6 too for an extra lineout option. I'm not convinced Wilson is challenging Cole though, but can appreciate he is better in the scrum.

 

[Peat]

Last time Wilson had sustained England minutes against serious level opposition, he didn't look better than Cole. I liked how Wilson did, but he's got to repeat that against someone a fair deal better before I believe he's challenging Cole.

 

[ratsapprentice]

When has Wilson ever had an opportunity to?
I think he's had maybe 4 starts? And at least three of those against second choice Argentina teams.
He very rarely comes on for any more than 15-20 minutes.

He also hasn't been playing as well as he has in the premiership this season, so to an extent his lack of starts is justified by the form of both him and Cole over their England careers.
That's not so anymore IMO. Wilson has been playing well enough to warrant a couple of chances against serious opposition.

 

[Peat]

Six Three of them in 2009, quite a few significant sub appearances as well. So yeah, he hasn't had the opportunity for a while, and a fair bit has changed. I am happy to get those chances. Until those have come and he's taken them, my starter for a must win game is very easy personally.

 

[ratsapprentice]

No doubt, Cole would be my choice too. I think letting Wilson put in a good performance would be good for Cole too.
Might push him to work on his ball carrying a bit, which is pretty underwhelming for a guy that size with decent athleticism.

 

[j'nuh]

Six Three of them in 2009, quite a few significant sub appearances as well. So yeah, he hasn't had the opportunity for a while, and a fair bit has changed. I am happy to get those chances. Until those have come and he's taken them, my starter for a must win game is very easy personally.

tbf, Wilson shouldn't be judged on any performance before the 2012-13 season. Since the 2-prop bench has been introduced, he's been able to knuckle down as a tighthead rather than a utility prop, and has become a fine tighthead since (still think he should be on the Lions tour instead of Stevens).

Would still start Cole mind.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Something that we haven't talked about is the coaching team...

What did you guys make of the job they did?

 

[McTallshort]

Bloody good! really liked the way they played reminded me a bit of the first year LAncaster was in charge. Great forward work set piece spot on.

 

[j'nuh]

The defence out wide was probably better (this is just because of personnel - May, Yarde, Wade > Ashton in defence), and I didn't notice much of a difference in the centers, and we seemed to hold out very well in the middle of the field, but the team struggled a lot against the tight carries in our 22. I think someone went through Dickson on a tight carry for a try - Dickson shouldn't be next to the contact zone when the opponents are knocking on the try line though.

Attack was better, but considering the opposition and the backline picked, don't think this had much to do with the coaching. Breakdown on possession was pretty terrible, but it was nice to see Kvesic and Launchbury get stuck into the opponents' breakdown. Set piece was pretty brutal. Can't tell much about the scrum (although having discounted Marler, I'd like to see him again vs. tougher scrums), but Attwood in the lineout was a bit of a revelation for England imo. Enjoyed the tactical game and Burns pinging the corners quite a lot.

 

[kesh]

Eastmond, find of the tour. What a player.

 

[Quasar]

Nice Eastmond. Reminds me of Robinson with the small stature and rapid direction changes.

Christian Wade is the player that most reminds me of Jason Robinson. He's a wing and is fast and fleeting - just like Robinson was.

As Australia's Courier Mail described him recently: "He is a pint-sized winger with jet shoes, a quick step and a knack for scoring tries..."

He's definitely one for the future.