June Internationals: Argentina v England, First Test (08/06/13)

[TRF_Olyy]

08/06/2013, 16:10 (Local), 20.10 (England)​

 

[TRF_Olyy]

ENGLAND TEAM
15 Mike Brown (Harlequins, 16 caps)
14 Christian Wade (Wasps, uncapped)
13 Jonathan Joseph (London Irish, 4 caps)
12 Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 4 caps)
11 David Strettle (Saracens, 13 caps)
10 Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby, 1 cap)
9 Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints, 7 caps)
1 Joe Marler (Harlequins, 10 caps)
2 Rob Webber (Bath Rugby, 3 caps)
3 David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 26 caps)
4 Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 9 caps)
5 Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby, 2 caps)
6 Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 18 caps, captain)
7 Matt Kvesic (Worcester Warriors, uncapped)
8 Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 10 caps)
Replacements
16 David Paice (London Irish, 6 caps)
17 Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints, 4 caps)
18 Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks, uncapped)
19 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 20 caps)
20 Billy Vunipola (London Wasps, uncapped)
21 Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens, 12 caps)
22 Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
23 Ben Foden (Northampton Saints, 30 caps)


Don't understand Strettle starting. Sure he's more experienced than May/Yarde, but he's also a LOT worse. OTher than that it's a good starting XV, and an OK bench.
Hopefully, if Wilson goes off before Marler, PDJ goes on before Thomas, and then Thomas only gets on with Marler goes off too.

 

[j'nuh]

Very agreeable XV! I'd have had May for Strettle, but otherwise it's what I wanted. Massive show of faith in Burns to be named the only fly-half. Bench is less exciting. Would have had Buchanan and called up different props and a different scrumhalf, but I can get behind the inclusion of Lawes/Vunipola/Eastmond/Foden.

 

[Crapspray]

As expected really, pretty good though. Only gripe is Strettle; he's a known quantity now. I can only assume it's an experience thing. Not the end of the world, but I hope Yarde and May get a look-in next weekend.

Best hope either Marler or Wilson don't get injured as well. Doran-Jones (on the wrong side) and Thomas scrummaging together could get messy... if only they called Corbs up this Saturday evening.

 

[j'nuh]

I think the most frustrating thing is that it should have been obvious to take three looseheads and three tightheads to begin with. With four props playing any one game, it takes just one injury/Lions call-up to need to call on another player. If Stevens/Jones/Cole got injured in the Lions, I suspect that Wilson is quite likely to be called up too. We should have taken three looseheads on this tour to begin with...

 

[ratsapprentice]

Anyone have the confidence to make a prediction at this point?

I know I don't.

 

[Patchey]

Ditto everything that has been said about the team so far. Good to see Dixon back in the side, rate him over Youngs to be honest.

Prediction? Tough game, very tight with England to pull away after the hour mark and win by 6-9 points. Wade to score and Kvesic to play so well he is praised as the new Richard Hill by Stuart Barnes.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Wade to score and Kvesic to play so well he is praised as the new Richard Hill by Stuart Barnes.

Thankfully, Stuart Barnes will have nothing to do with the broadcasting of this match.

 

[Big Ewis]

this should be nice. I know all eyes are on the Lions and the Aussies and all, but this will be the most interesting out of the other British Isles Tests. I mean, Wales in Japan......wow, what suspense.
England will surely show up this time, I think they really underestimated the CONSUR last weekend, pretty bad...but England has shown some pretty good depth this mid-year; this should be a pretty good level match on both sides, though England look better on paper.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

England by 20.

 

[Superalexmarket]

England is going to take two tough losses, and they will think 2 times before returning with an alternate team to Argentina.

 

[Tony Manx]

England is going to take two tough losses, and they will think 2 times before returning with an alternate team to Argentina.

The only choice would not to have turned up and one wonders with the chanting of your leader why they did!!! but they have paid the rugby supporters of your country some tribute in bringing the best players available and even then you grumble.....get over it!!

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

The only choice would not to have turned up and one wonders with the chanting of your leader why they did!!! but they have paid the rugby supporters of your country some tribute in bringing the best players available and even then you grumble.....get over it!!

Danny Care, Toby Flood, Chris Robshaw, Brad Barritt, Chris Ashton? That's five players with 41, 57, 17, 16 and 30 caps between them who have all been regular starters for England (including their captain!). I'd hardly say they're paying tribute to the Argentines

 

[Patchey]

So Argentina can rest players ahead of the Rugby Championship but England should have taken their full strength squad, Lions tourists excluded, even though players like Robshaw arguably need a rest and some of English rugby's brightest talents don't deserve a test match run out against quality opposition rather than playing the BaaBaas once a year?

Also Chris Ashton shouldn't be in an England team against any oppo, be it New Zealand or Belgium, until he learns to tackle.

 

[ratsapprentice]

England is going to take two tough losses, and they will think 2 times before returning with an alternate team to Argentina.

Maybe we'll think twice about coming at all if that's the sort of attitude people are going to take...

 

[Joseph14]

England is going to take two tough losses, and they will think 2 times before returning with an alternate team to Argentina.

Plenty think this side, bar the front row of course, is actually better than the last full England side that took the field. I'm one of them.
Stick Cole, the two Youngs, Corbisiero, Tuilagi and one of May or Yarde in this side and its to far off being the strongest possible XV available to England. 5 of those names are with the Lions.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

So Argentina can rest players ahead of the Rugby Championship but England should have taken their full strength squad, Lions tourists excluded, even though players like Robshaw arguably need a rest and some of English rugby's brightest talents don't deserve a test match run out against quality opposition rather than playing the BaaBaas once a year?

Also Chris Ashton shouldn't be in an England team against any oppo, be it New Zealand or Belgium, until he learns to tackle.

First of all, I wasn't suggesting that England shouldn't rest players, I was merely highlighting that this isn't a top English team, contrary to what had been said earlier in the threadso.

Second, Argentina selected their squad after England, they may have opted for a stronger squad had England also opted for one.

Third, it's worth considering that Argentine players tend to play in the French competition, as opposed to the English players who tend more towards the English Premiership. There are more games in the French season than the English season, and it should be noted that a number of top Argentine players will have clauses in their contracts limiting the number of games they can play outside the club season. This is not the case for the English players. Robshaw would be more than willing to play were he selected in the Lions, so you can't say he's too knackered to play. For a young captain, I would expect him to try and get as many caps under his belt for experience, especially when the prospect of captaining such a young squad is on offer due to the number of English players selected in the Lions.

Again, I'm not suggesting that England should take a stronger team, nor arguing that it's their responsibility to do so. That being said, it's certainly possible that this English team will get stuffed by the Argentines (though I wouldn't bet on it), and management (and Robshaw) should be held accountable for any bad results, due to the fact that they are choosing to field an inexperienced side, regardless of what Argentina is doing.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Robshaw and Flood are injured as well, aren't they?

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2

 

[ratsapprentice]

First of all, I wasn't suggesting that England shouldn't rest players, I was merely highlighting that this isn't a top English team, contrary to what had been said earlier in the threadso.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, many of these players are the best in their position by general consensus.
The only thing they lack is experience, the team as a collective has just as much if not more quality than the first team.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, many of these players are the best in their position by general consensus.
The only thing they lack is experience, the team as a collective has just as much if not more quality than the first team.

I wouldn't disagree with their potential ability, but obviously the coach disagrees with you due to the fact that many of them are not starters, nor have they been in the past. This is very clearly a developmental team.