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Dumbo
Guest
Fight!
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shtove
Guest
Those smilies look bored. Prestwick not paying them enough.
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Prestwick
Guest
Oh my, look at this, someone from the SH who can use his emotes to similar effect! And not only that, he is trotting out the same tired old statistics which fail to cover up the fact that New Zealand haven't won a world cup since the 1980s! Also, I love the way you cover up for this fact by trying to hide behind Australia and South Africa - two teams who when the going gets tough, don't choke like England, Ireland and New Zealand.
It is lovely how the Kiwis love to spank the Aussies and Boks (verbally) when it suits them, and then use the Aussie and Bok statistics to cover up their own dismal failure in the RWC when it suits them. Sorry but using "well the SH has 4 out of 5 RWCs" isn't an excuse for failure in the RWC.
And guess what? Every time you trot this tired old dead donkey to flog some more, everyone up here in the NH gets together and has a good old laugh at you guys
Between the tour of hell in 1999 and 2003, we established ourselves as the dominant force in World Rugby. Throughout the 1990s we were far more competitive than we had been in the 1970s or 1980s. It wasn't "2-3 years" as your amazing rugby brain dictates.
Does this have anything to do with having the right players at the right time? Of course it does, but what system produced those players? They were all coming on stream just as the game went pro in England and in theory, if our system wasn't worth the paper it was written on, they should have just vanished and faded into obscurity.
But no, their clubs (Leicester, Bath, Saracens, Newcastle, etc) did their part in developing guys like Hill, Wilkinson, Johnson, etc. Actually, they played a huge part. They trained, managed and kept up their end of the deal (i.e. provide fit, talented and patriotic players of a higher moral fibre of the dross who play for Soccer...or the Magners League j/k ).
By the way, you do know who those players are right? You don't really seem to know much about this thing called "Northern Hemisphere Rugby" apart from trolling up useless statistics via google.
So the Pumas beat us? Big deal, guess what? They're almost a top five team. And if I remember, recently, they gave you guys a seriously tough time too. This is awesome, not only are you incredibly pig-ignorant about the Italians, you want to belittle and patronise the Argentinians too! Good going, and I thought it was only the London English who are offensive and ignorant fools! :lol:
God help you Shiznit when Argentina join the Tri Nations in a couple of years, when you travel to Buenos Ares, you'll be in for a hell of a shock.
But anyway, mock and use your, rather quaint smilies if you want! Because while you are getting angry, I'll be watching England (gradually) getting even B)
It is lovely how the Kiwis love to spank the Aussies and Boks (verbally) when it suits them, and then use the Aussie and Bok statistics to cover up their own dismal failure in the RWC when it suits them. Sorry but using "well the SH has 4 out of 5 RWCs" isn't an excuse for failure in the RWC.
And guess what? Every time you trot this tired old dead donkey to flog some more, everyone up here in the NH gets together and has a good old laugh at you guys
Between the tour of hell in 1999 and 2003, we established ourselves as the dominant force in World Rugby. Throughout the 1990s we were far more competitive than we had been in the 1970s or 1980s. It wasn't "2-3 years" as your amazing rugby brain dictates.
Does this have anything to do with having the right players at the right time? Of course it does, but what system produced those players? They were all coming on stream just as the game went pro in England and in theory, if our system wasn't worth the paper it was written on, they should have just vanished and faded into obscurity.
But no, their clubs (Leicester, Bath, Saracens, Newcastle, etc) did their part in developing guys like Hill, Wilkinson, Johnson, etc. Actually, they played a huge part. They trained, managed and kept up their end of the deal (i.e. provide fit, talented and patriotic players of a higher moral fibre of the dross who play for Soccer...or the Magners League j/k
).By the way, you do know who those players are right? You don't really seem to know much about this thing called "Northern Hemisphere Rugby" apart from trolling up useless statistics via google.
So the Pumas beat us? Big deal, guess what? They're almost a top five team. And if I remember, recently, they gave you guys a seriously tough time too. This is awesome, not only are you incredibly pig-ignorant about the Italians, you want to belittle and patronise the Argentinians too! Good going, and I thought it was only the London English who are offensive and ignorant fools! :lol:
God help you Shiznit when Argentina join the Tri Nations in a couple of years, when you travel to Buenos Ares, you'll be in for a hell of a shock.
But anyway, mock and use your, rather quaint smilies if you want! Because while you are getting angry, I'll be watching England (gradually) getting even B)
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Ripper
Guest
And? In case you didn't know, SANZAR contains South Africa, Australia and New Zealand - Your Post harped on about the "Old Farts at SANZAR blah blah blah", so therefore it is only natural to compare the success of the SANZAR Nations as a whole to this superior Northern System
Originally posted by Prestwick+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Prestwick)</div>And guess what? Every time you trot this tired old dead donkey to flog some more, everyone up here in the NH gets together and has a good old laugh at you guys
Is that before or after we beat you by 40 Points on the Rugby Field?
<!--QuoteBegin-Prestwick
Between the tour of hell in 1999 and 2003, we established ourselves as the dominant force in World Rugby. Throughout the 1990s we were far more competitive than we had been in the 1970s or 1980s. It wasn't "2-3 years" as your amazing rugby brain dictates.
Yes... the dominant force of World Cup, you beat an experimental test team at Twickernam by 2 points, and another All Black at home 6 months later in thier first game of the season with Caleb Ralph on the wing by 2 points, congratulations.
Originally posted by Prestwick
Does this have anything to do with having the right players at the right time? Of course it does, but what system produced those players? They were all coming on stream just as the game went pro in England and in theory, if our system wasn't worth the paper it was written on, they should have just vanished and faded into obscurity.
But no, their clubs (Leicester, Bath, Saracens, Newcastle, etc) did their part in developing guys like Hill, Wilkinson, Johnson, etc. Actually, they played a huge part. They trained, managed and kept up their end of the deal (i.e. provide fit, talented and patriotic players of a higher moral fibre of the dross who play for Soccer...or the Magners League j/k
By the way, you do know who those players are right? You don't really seem to know much about this thing called "Northern Hemisphere Rugby" apart from trolling up useless statistics via google.
What? Richard Hill and Martin Johnson were around long before Professionalism (And Martin Johnson only got noticed when he played for Kings Country and the NZ U-21 team), and what has Jonny Wilkinson done lately except get exposed and surpassed by others.
See you in 2015 than.
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Dumbo
Guest
Don't think we will Ripper, according to Prestwick Rugby should be over in the Southern Hemisphere by at least midway through next year.
You really do have to bow down to Northern supremacy.
Really you do.
Prestwick you're dreaming mate.
You really do have to bow down to Northern supremacy.
Really you do.
Prestwick you're dreaming mate.
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Prestwick
Guest
Rubbish. I wasn't talking about comparing SANZAR's system with the NH or England's at that point, I was talking about New Zealand's record of choking at the RWC, their record of only one Rugby World Cup and how the Kiwis disguise this record of flops by hiding behind the hard work that South Africa and Australia put in. And when the smoke clears, those same fans are there, having cheap digs at the very two nations who they hide behind when they try and explain away their RWC drought.
What you really need to be asking yourself is "the SH has won 4 out of 5 RWC, so why have we only won one out of that four?! So what if you've come in the top four! You should be at number one every sodding time, sod 2nd, 3rd and 4th that just means that you lost and failed, thats nothing to be proud of. For all this stuff about being anal about Rugby and wanting to be the best 24/7, you guys really are rather laissez-faire about winning the big name, centerpiece tournaments, almost as much as Ireland are laissez-faire about winning anything decent.
Both, because we prefer to enjoy the game rather than having a face like a smacked arse like, say, the SH fans whenever their fabled heroes lose.
We still won, a win is a win. I could say the same about all the times Ireland, Wales, France or Scotland have beaten us by two points but then again, I'm not a bitter and condescending fan. A cynical and cheeky and sometimes drunkenly irrelevant fan, but not bitter, never. Credit where credit is due. If Ireland beat us by two points, credit to them because they did what was needed to them and if England beat New Zealand by two points, you should extend the same courtesy, its good neighborly relations.
Yeah but the clubs who chose them and played them were basically professional anyway way before 'professionalism' belatedly came about. Lets face it, the only people still harping on about amateurism were the RFU in their ivory Twickenham towers. The clubs simply made the switch, some were sold to new owners while other owners continued to run their clubs.
By playing some excellent rugby thats what. Italy have some excellent players, an excellent coach and a rapidly developing game in Italy. Lots of Italians are starting to take notice of their national team. If they have a good World Cup and get to the Quarter Finals then that will stand them in even greater stead with the Italian public.
And I really love how you make Argentina to be some piddly little team who are actually ranked only four or five places below you guys in the rankings. Seriously, considering the amount of crap they have to wade through, what with the shee lack of money in the Argentinian game today, amateur nutters at home in the Argentinian RFU, you guys being selfish and caring only about the cash in a rapidly shrinking Tri Nations pot and keeping them out as well as most of them playing in the NH, Argentina have done bloody well to get to 6th place in the iRB rankings. Give them the respect they deserve because Argentina will get my best team of the year if they do well at the world cup.
Again, if they play well, they bloody well deserve to win and if we play badly then we deserve to have our arses kicked. What do you want me to do? Post bloody snipers at on the roof of Twickenham stadium?! Actually, considering how hard it is to win down under anyway I'm surprised you guys haven't thought about that one for Eden park. David Strettle heading for the touchline with nobody to catch him? A bullet between the eyes from a NZ SAS sniper should sort him out. Nice one.
Make that 2011 (and loads of beer) :lol:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Dumbo")</div>
Not that soon obviously :lol: but if America keep developing gradually like they are then in 15 to 20 years, we could well be looking at a Rugby giant. One that can out-spend any of us and could have more talent than the lot of us put together.
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Gulli
Guest
i like the way this thread has degenerated into sniping at the opposing hemisphere's unions
The tri nations has, in my opinion got more quality than the 6N as can be seen by the SH winning 4 out of the last 5 and us only producing one winner. but quality doesn't always make for influence on the world stage, stadiums in the 6N can alwyas be filled, but in the tri nations they are half empty... i take this to mean that people in the NH are more influenced by their national teams and competitions
The tri nations has, in my opinion got more quality than the 6N as can be seen by the SH winning 4 out of the last 5 and us only producing one winner. but quality doesn't always make for influence on the world stage, stadiums in the 6N can alwyas be filled, but in the tri nations they are half empty... i take this to mean that people in the NH are more influenced by their national teams and competitions
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Ripper
Guest
Yes, and Tri Nations tests are half empty on a regular basis arent they.i like the way this thread has degenerated into sniping at the opposing hemisphere's unions
The tri nations has, in my opinion got more quality than the 6N as can be seen by the SH winning 4 out of the last 5 and us only producing one winner. but quality doesn't always make for influence on the world stage, stadiums in the 6N can alwyas be filled, but in the tri nations they are half empty... i take this to mean that people in the NH are more influenced by their national teams and competitions
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shtove
Guest
I knew it! Ireland are as bad as the ABs. Yes!!
ABs v Italy could be one of the most telling internationals in years. Have the ABs developed the perfect squad? Will Italy's strength in the pack let them play it smart? Anyway, Italy have pride and strength - just need more guile.
Sorry, they're going to get hammered into the ground. Nice try, though.
Nigel Melville is in charge. He's talking about Canada-USA-Argentina in a Tri-N of their own. And he has this appalling vista of recruiting all the NFL guys who don't make the cut. Could be interesting.
I'd prefer to see Germany become a rugby giant. They can put all their Hermanns and Manfreds in the pack, and take some of their athletic soccer dudes and shove them out the backs. I reckon Germany's serial success in the diveball world cup is down to their preference for fast, strong players over Ronaldo-type tap-dancers. Let them take up a real game, and give England something else to moan about.
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Prestwick
Guest
I knew it! Ireland are as bad as the ABs. Yes!!
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I apologise, I meant the fans have a laissez-faire attitude, not the team itself
We won't be the guys moaning, we already have enough to moan about, it'll be the ones who feel that winning and the RWC is their right, their destiny (i.e. the SH) who'll be doing the moaning.
But sadly, it'll be the Americans will be the first. The plan about recruiting NFL chaps who don't make the draft is very interesting, especially about the sheer weight of numbers.
Allow me, if you will, to explain to you a process that happens every year at a small British barracks in Nepal, tens of thousands of young men descend from the hills and mountains. The reason? To join the British army as Gurkhas.
The major snag is that every year the British only want a hundred (if that) so you have a problem, out of the thousands of highly talented and fit men, who do you choose to fill those hundred seats on the C-130 home?
The same problem I presume revolves around the draft for the NFL, so many talented guys with too few spaces on the big teams to go around, which leaves America with a bunch of highly fit (or fat, depending on the position) and stupid men with a diploma in Food Technology or bricklaying I suppose. A future in the steel works, some failing big American car manufacturer or Burger king awaits!
And so enter stage left good ol' Nigel Melville with a nice offer to sign up these poor lost Football players at sea for Rugby instead. It works both ways, the yanks get highly motivated men and the players get to do something other than serve burgers.
Actually, you know who I want to suddenly blossom onto the world state? Norway. Awesome hard arsed vikings twice the height and size of even he biggest Pacific islander! No contest.
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shiznit
Guest
:lol2tn:
to quote you directly you stated 'I am just saying that it is better in my opinion than the system of dictatorship from a board of old farts at the RFUs of SA, Australia and NZ.'
but thats ok... you want to compare NZ and England in RWC's...
lets compare NZ and Englands world cup records...
RWC Wins:
ENG- 1 ('03)
NZ- 1 ('87)
Head to Head wins in RWC:
NZ- 3 ('91, '95 & '99)
ENG- 0
Worst Finnish:
ENG- knocked out in 1/4 finals ('87 & '99)
NZ- 4th ('99)
yeah... we are terrible compared to England... :toss:
our system is much better then Englands...
a true reflection of that is when you look at our overall records.
All time winning %
ENG - 53.36%
NZ - 73.78%
add to that the fact that weve never lost to Ireland, Scotland, Italy & Argentina then you see how good our system is.
i havent even mentioned our Juniors, 7's & Womans rugby systems...
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melon
Guest
Yes, and NZ's school rugby is outrageously good. Juniors development is wonderful aswell.
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Prestwick
Guest
Wow Shiznit, all you have proved that New Zealand have only won one RWC and that they have choked on four other occasions. You're pretty good at emphasising how embarrassing it is for New Zealand to have such a dismal record of failure.
So what if you beat England every time in the RWC, did you go on to win the RWC?! No! Thats what makes this even more hilarious for me as you are essentially saying to me "harr harr well at least we beat you!", as if that excuses 20 years of dismal failuire for the All Blacks in the RWC when frankly, I don't really care! Its also genius how you insist on adding the ****** sign as if you're saying "Well we won one world cup! We've got a better win record than you....and we...we..we....won a world cup! And....er...er...SHUT UP! :toss: " :lol:
We are making progress though Shiznit, at least you're not hiding behind South Africa and Australia when it comes to RWC stats, at least you're taking your record of failure in the RWC like a man! :bleh!: And trust me, any place other than first in the RWC is a failure, if you are out there to win it, why would you celebrate coming in 2nd, 3rd or 4th?! :blink:
So what if you beat England every time in the RWC, did you go on to win the RWC?! No! Thats what makes this even more hilarious for me as you are essentially saying to me "harr harr well at least we beat you!", as if that excuses 20 years of dismal failuire for the All Blacks in the RWC when frankly, I don't really care! Its also genius how you insist on adding the ****** sign as if you're saying "Well we won one world cup! We've got a better win record than you....and we...we..we....won a world cup! And....er...er...SHUT UP! :toss: " :lol:
We are making progress though Shiznit, at least you're not hiding behind South Africa and Australia when it comes to RWC stats, at least you're taking your record of failure in the RWC like a man! :bleh!: And trust me, any place other than first in the RWC is a failure, if you are out there to win it, why would you celebrate coming in 2nd, 3rd or 4th?! :blink:
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getofmeland
Guest
1 Team doesn't make a Tournament,
I believe the Six Nations is a better setup than what the Tri Nations is, but the talent in the Tri Nations is the same as the Talent in the Six Nations, the great thing being that every team play a different style of rugby although in the Tri Nations you have 3 very similar teams competing multiple times over a short period proving really nothing...
I believe the Six Nations is a better setup than what the Tri Nations is, but the talent in the Tri Nations is the same as the Talent in the Six Nations, the great thing being that every team play a different style of rugby although in the Tri Nations you have 3 very similar teams competing multiple times over a short period proving really nothing...
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eoino
Guest
They do, but look at the Irish Schools cup, or even more so, the Leinster Schools cup, its huge here, they are practicly set up like professional teams, there is big sponcership, TV coverage and as far as i know, the Oldest Rugby Tourniment Cup in the world is the Ulsters Schools Cup.
Whats the Schools cup like in other countries, I have seen it in England, and compared to here, its shockingly bad!
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Prestwick
Guest
Well I don't know about that. It depends on what you are looking at. What were you looking at?
If you are talking about the Daily Mail thing which any old tom, dick & harry school enters on the offchance of getting in the papers, then of course the quality and commitment is poor.
But then you have the public schools who usually are in a league of their own and the competition is absolutely intense, to the point where to intimidate another side, one Public School deliberately broke bottles over a pitch and kept the pitch in its state until at the last moment where they agreed (with a grin) to switch to another pitch which was clean.
Most of the public school teams are of a very good standard and the competition between them in is good health.
If you are talking about the Daily Mail thing which any old tom, dick & harry school enters on the offchance of getting in the papers, then of course the quality and commitment is poor.
But then you have the public schools who usually are in a league of their own and the competition is absolutely intense, to the point where to intimidate another side, one Public School deliberately broke bottles over a pitch and kept the pitch in its state until at the last moment where they agreed (with a grin) to switch to another pitch which was clean.
Most of the public school teams are of a very good standard and the competition between them in is good health.
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getofmeland
Guest
I used to play against a private school, and the actual competion and Rivalry was immense when we played each other... the other thing is Rugby was the main sport at our school Football took a back seat to Rugby... I have also played Rugby down in Cornwall and they take it very seriously down there.. and too a very high standard...
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melon
Guest
The school competitions here a quite good.
But development from the ARU is ****
But development from the ARU is ****
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shiznit
Guest
????
are you serious?? do you base the sucsess of a system on whether you win a one-off game every four years?? i would think you have abit more sense then that.
NZ Rugby is in a Extremely healthy state at the moment. we can probably field 2 sides capable of winning the RWC. we could field about 4 sides that should make the 1/4's. regardless of if we choke in the RWC or win it is irellevant. our system keeps churning out good footballers which will keep the all blacks in the top echelon of world rugby. admittedly we are extremely fortunite geographicly to reap the benefits of the pacifc islands but so are Australia. and we still develop the island talent alot better than Australia has over the years.
i dont know why you bring up RWC's. AUS aside..NZ have the best record. Choke or not... they are the only side to make the semi-finals of every RWC.
you say were so bad.. but if we go on as expected by most pundits and win this years RWC... will that all of a sudden make us the greatest rugby nation in the world?? i think not.... weve built that reputation over 110 years or so.
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shiznit
Guest
i thought our schools competition was the best in the world.
i havent heard much of the irish schools comp though so it might not be.
our best schools from when i played(my last year was 2001) Wesley College(Jonahs school), Auckland Grammer(the most all blacks by any school including current ab doug howlett), Napier Boys, Christchurch boys(i think thats where Richie McCaw & Daniel Carter came from), Rotorua Boys High, Kelston Boys(graham henry's old stomping ground), Otago Boys High, Westlake(luke mcalisters school), St Kents(Joe Rocks school).... i probably missed out on heaps more but i was from northland so i really only played against the Auckland/North Harbour schools.
i know that when it came to international tournoments our school sides were always right up there.
i havent heard much of the irish schools comp though so it might not be.
our best schools from when i played(my last year was 2001) Wesley College(Jonahs school), Auckland Grammer(the most all blacks by any school including current ab doug howlett), Napier Boys, Christchurch boys(i think thats where Richie McCaw & Daniel Carter came from), Rotorua Boys High, Kelston Boys(graham henry's old stomping ground), Otago Boys High, Westlake(luke mcalisters school), St Kents(Joe Rocks school).... i probably missed out on heaps more but i was from northland so i really only played against the Auckland/North Harbour schools.
i know that when it came to international tournoments our school sides were always right up there.
