Is the Premiership wage cap a real reason or a lame excuse for poor performance?

[Teh Mite]

Its a combination of many factors which causes the rot in Engligh rugby - the club v county system, the smaller squads, the diverse spread of top playeers, rubbish forigen imports ousting better (but more expensive) home grown talent etc.

On the Celtic models (particularly Ireland) the central contracts and part franchising of provinces works (to a degree).. The pyramid structure means its very elitist for the players, but they are concentrated into (in irelands case) 4 (okay, 2) teams so the same players are always together in one form or another. Teamwork and familiarity breeds from there.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]However where there is a pre-existing club base privately owned operating on a looking after number 1 first of all ideal, its a different game. Toby Booth has a very different idea to that of Jim Mallender to that of Cockrill etc. They play with differing mentalities and don't know each other over 12 clubs. They're taken from one animal (the club) and moulded into something completely different (country) for half the season, upon their return to multi-coloured shirts their gameplan has gone to **** (and according to Nick Johnson - Saints fitness coach and unsung hero of the clubs revival - fitness too). There's no consistency.[/FONT]

That shouldn't make any odds, but the best teams aledgedly have the beat players. the best players are aledgedly internationals. In Ireland, it works that they are split 2-3 ways. In England, they're split 12 ways and the gaps are filled by journeymen or forigen imports.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The English clubs would be so much better if there was consistency in the season. Same as the Irish and Scottish would be better if there was talent to match the team ethic Or for the Welsh, if they had the team ethic to match the talent.

Fack knows what to do about the French.[/FONT]​

 

[Amiga500]

I'll pick up on replies to my previous comments just in a general post.

As has been said, considering population only is a very simplistic way of looking at it. However, speaking from my own experience here in Ireland, I would be shocked if England did not have a higher ratio of players to population than Ireland*. Indeed, if it doesn't, I would ask serious questions over just how the RFU are promoting the sport among the players of tomorrow... or is it to do with *perceived* upper-class only sports?


*Ireland has 3 major field sports ahead of rugby, gaelic football, hurling and soccer. Sure, I know a few gaelic players train with the rugby teams for fitness during the winter, but by and by large, if they were top gaelic footballers, they would be busy with county/school/college commitments through the year; so only average-to-good gaelic players will get the chance to play much rugby as a pure crossover. (Of course, there are exceptions, for example Tommy Bowe was a Monaghan minor gaelic footballer.)

In Scotland, rugby is mostly confined to the borders, while Wales I wonder about - if rugby is the national sport, where are the crowds at the Pro12 matches?

In England, soccer is first among the field sports... I can only assume rugby is second? Surely 99% of them are not playing soccer at the expense of rugby?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Rugby is a distant second to football.

It's no secret that England has the most registered players (and by quite some way), and really we should be doing better for it.
However, there are a massive amount of casual sides/registered players.
For example: I come from a small village, and within 10 minutes drive there are 7 different clubs, of which each has between 2 and 4 sides put out. Not all of these are competitive (some are in the lowest of the low leagues, one of them isn't even in a league, just plays friendlies).
Lets say there are 21 teams are put out each weekend, that's 483 players, of which maybe 161 are actually playing "seriously".

Not to mention all of the Uni sides (some putting out 3+ sides, but with 100s of people signing up at freshers week, each one technically registered as a player - and every single university and college will have this).
It all adds up. I know that a lot this applies to Ireland/Wales/Scotland/pretty much everywhere, but Rugby can be seen as a very "social" sport, with many people signing up for social aspect of it rather than the game itself.

 

[big ginger 8]

Thats why many Irish teams have a social team.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Aye, I know what you mean, it's just that (in my area at least) they have two or three social teams :lol:

 

[Seaton]

Scotland's Primary game of choice is split between Football and rugby....

Rugby is not a big game in England.

I wish.

There are more supporter in Ibrox or Parkhead every week than there are registered rugby players in Scotland. To call the games split, well that's just silly.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Olyy I remember you saying a while ago that Sale were 650k under their wage cap. How do you find that sort of thing out?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It was said in an interview by one of the owners (I think it was one of them, anyway, could have been Hanks or Diamond though).