Is the Premiership wage cap a real reason or a lame excuse for poor performance?

[TRF_Olyy]

Meh, the attendances in the Pro12 (especially Scotland and Wales) are terrible and it's nothing to do with the amount of people in the countries.

 

[welshglory]

Its the quality of rugby or lack of and the fact that the teams hardly ever have their first team out.

 

[coonor]

Personally I think that the whole competition of the Aviva Prem is better than the Pro 12 but the quality of teams is greater in the Pro 12. Just looking at how Ulster dominated Leicester is an example of this. Obviously this is just one game but the consistent heineken cup success by the Irish provinces and the way many Pro 12 teams are able to defeat even the best English clubs represent this.

 

[big ginger 8]

I'm a Leinster season ticket holder and the attendances are generally pretty good also clubs have a brand of rugby so if the firsts play exciting rugby the whole club probably will. I personally find the Aviva pretty boring it's definitely no where as exciting as Sky make out.

 

[Teh Mite]

I'm a Leinster season ticket holder and the attendances are generally pretty good also clubs have a brand of rugby so if the firsts play exciting rugby the whole club probably will. I personally find the Aviva pretty boring it's definitely no where as exciting as Sky make out.

You've said enough time that you don't watch any Premiership matches, so that's a pretty crap argument.

 

[big ginger 8]

When have I said that ever.

 

[racingmetrofan]

Personally I think that the whole competition of the Aviva Prem is better than the Pro 12 but the quality of teams is greater in the Pro 12. Just looking at how Ulster dominated Leicester is an example of this. Obviously this is just one game but the consistent heineken cup success by the Irish provinces and the way many Pro 12 teams are able to defeat even the best English clubs represent this.

I'm sure the scores would have been reversed had Ulster been missing two of their best players and playing in Leicester tbh

 

[Teh Mite]

When have I said that ever.

When you used to post under your other aliases.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I wouldn't be so sure - Ulster are on great form and Leicester aren't doing amazingly this season.
However I agree in sentiment: That wasn't Leicester at their best, while that was a very good Ulster side.
Can only play what's in front of you though!

 

[Saintjay]

All the major talent from four countries spread across 12 teams. Nearly all those teams in the H/Cup. No threat of relegation.

I would be surprised if the pro-12 teams did poorly in the H/Cup.

 

[big ginger 8]

Well I didn't have Sky then I even watch the rugby club. The Aviva isn't utter **** but it's not great the best matches from the Pro12 are better than the best from the Aviva IMO in fairness the Pro12 probably does have a bit more crap games but the Aviva has loads of average. You must admit it's no where near as good as the hype Sky give it, no league is.

 

[Amiga500]

All the major talent from four countries spread across 12 teams.

Again... 51 million people versus 14 odd million people.

The AVIVA should be the stronger league and England should whip the 3 Celtic nations every 6N, but neither is the case..

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Russia should have won the world cup, by that logic.

 

[Saintjay]

Well I didn't have Sky then I even watch the rugby club. The Aviva isn't utter **** but it's not great the best matches from the Pro12 are better than the best from the Aviva IMO in fairness the Pro12 probably does have a bit more crap games but the Aviva has loads of average. You must admit it's no where near as good as the hype Sky give it, no league is.

It depends on what you think rugby should be or what is average. A hard fought battle in the mud and rain ending 12 all or a a high scoring free flowing running game.

As for Sky they are all about selling packages and your not going to sell many if you say come watch the Aviva average rugby at is best

 

[Me 1]

Russia should have won the world cup, by that logic.

Actually the USA should have. But you have to admit that a bigger population is a massive bonus, it's not everything obviously but it does help massively.

 

[big ginger 8]

It depends on what you think rugby should be or what is average. A hard fought battle in the mud and rain ending 12 all or a a high scoring free flowing running game.

As for Sky they are all about selling packages and your not going to sell many if you say come watch the Aviva average rugby at is best

I like an invigorating armwrestle but I just find the Aviva that bit more boring probably cause I don't support a team in it so don't really care about the result.

 

[Getofmeland]

Again... 51 million people versus 14 odd million people.

The AVIVA should be the stronger league and England should whip the 3 Celtic nations every 6N, but neither is the case..

But if you go on that logic, England's primary game of choice is Football... Wales primary game of choice is Rugby... Scotland's Primary game of choice is split between Football and Rugby... Ireland's Primary game of choice is Celtic Football / Rugby...

Rugby is not a big game in England, you find the majority get sweeped into football at a young age, however things are starting to change slightly with Rugby growing in popularity, the only exception to the Rule is Cornwall, where Rugby has always been big, with nearly all of the towns/villages having a side...

 

[Saintjay]

Again... 51 million people versus 14 odd million people.

The AVIVA should be the stronger league and England should whip the 3 Celtic nations every 6N, but neither is the case..

Populations size has nothing to do with it, yes the talent pool is bigger but it is also spread thinner.

The England squad is spread over ten teams. So the best 30 odd rugby players are spread out. Irelands squad I believe is spread over 4 teams.

I am sure if you put all the England squad in four regional teams they would do better.

 

[big ginger 8]

But if you go on that logic, England's primary game of choice is Football... Wales primary game of choice is Rugby... Scotland's Primary game of choice is split between Football and Rugby... Ireland's Primary game of choice is Celtic Football / Rugby...

Rugby is not a big game in England, you find the majority get sweeped into football at a young age, however things are starting to change slightly with Rugby growing in popularity, the only exception to the Rule is Cornwall, where Rugby has always been big, with nearly all of the towns/villages having a side...

Ireland's main sports Gaelic football, hurling, soccer, rugby in that order.

 

[m0rris]

Again... 51 million people versus 14 odd million people.

The AVIVA should be the stronger league and England should whip the 3 Celtic nations every 6N, but neither is the case..

As Olyy has pointed out it isn't that simple. Wales and Ireland have a much better rugby:football ratio. On the same basis New Zealand should be propping up the world rankings behind all of the six nations sides etc etc.

As for why the Aviva is behind... I think it's hamstrung by some pretty poor, mindless crash and bash coaching. IMHO, leaving aside the slightly worse squads compared to the Irish, the league hardly encourages invention and adventerous play... i.e. the kind that wins cups in Europe. I think the issue is being blown out of proportion though.

The idea that all the Rabo clubs are a country mile ahead of the aviva teams isn't right... the scottish and welsh clubs are at a similar level and the Italian worse. Also the cap argument doesn't really bear out as the French clubs spend millions more than the Aviva clubs, and whilst clubs like Clermont are arguably better, Montpellier and Racing Metro have hardly been much better than Bath and London Irish.

Edit to add, Gaelic might well be a bigger sport but Gaelic/rugby crossover can work at a decent level whereas rugby/football are largely incompatible except for if you are Danny Cipriani.