Ireland v Argentina

[munstermuffin]

Hard to tell Conal I'm presuming he was released back because it was probably a shout between him and Trimble for bench and fact that Trimble covers more positions got him the call.

 

[durbutter]

I doubt it, we have no cover for 12 besides him. Maybe Fitz but thats it.

 

[munstermuffin]

On that though Darbutter and I know I bang on about Johne Murphy but well Wallace and D'Arcy both are on wrong side of 30 and Id ask is it time we test player at 12 be it Murphy or someone from Leinster or Ulster but that is another area we need to develop

 

[coonor]

My Ireland team would be:

1) T. Court
2) S. Cronin
3) T. Buckley
4) L. Cullen
5) D. Toner
6) S. Ferris
7) D. Leamy
8) J. Heaslip
9) P. Stringer
10) J. Sexton
11) K. Earls
12) G. D'arcy
13) B. O'Driscoll
14) T. Bowe
15) G. Murphy

Replacements
16) D. Varley
17) M. Ross
18) D. O'Callaghan
19) S. O'Brien
20) I. Boss
21) R. O'Gara
22) P. Wallace

 

[Conal]

ulster have whitten at 12ithink spence plays 12 aswell both ireland potential in my eyes

 

[MunsterMan]

It would be a mistake not to pick Healy, on another forum I saw some excellent analysis of the 4 scrums on our 5m line he "should have been binned" for Franks bind was on Healy's arm everytime, pulling Healy down. Even when He asked the referee specificaly to watch his arm the referee still got it wrong. Clueless. He put in a huge performance. Some of the tackles Healy, Best and Ferris put in in the first 20 were bone crunching and really sent a message that this game was no walkover. I'd go for:

1. Healy
2. Cronin
3. Court
4. O'Callaghan
5. Cullen
6. Ferris
7. O'Brien
8. Heaslip
9. Stringer
10. Sexton
11. Trimble
12. D'Arcy
13. O'Driscoll (C)
14. Bowe
15. Earls

16. Varley
17. Buckley
18. Toner
19. Leamy
20. Reddan
21. O'Gara
22. Murphy

Alternatively you could play Earls on the wing on the wing and Murphy at fullback, either or.

 

[munstermuffin]

Please No Trimble,

Just on point I made earlier on 12 we should be looking foor fresh blood well Geordan Murphy is 32 and will be 33 by the time the World Cup comes, I'm not saying he is finished or anything, shouldn't we test a younger player there.

 

[munstermuffin]

Buckley to start and well according to various news reports Trimble is starting over Earls. A disgrace and no mention of Cullen so presumably he isn't starting. Stringer and Sexton are half backs but still I annoyed by that team. Keith Earls should be very annoyed if that is the case that 2 players both in poor-ish form keep him out.

Dare I say Argentina could rattle us too

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Trimble over Earls would be a travesty,
Could it be that his versatility is hurting him? I mean, he plays 13 for Munster, but isn't going to take BODs jersey off of him before the WC (at least) - so in the selectors eyes him at FB/Wing would be his lesser positions (despite him playing both those positions a fair bit, even for the Lions) meaning he's more useful on the bench than on the pitch?

 

[lynam1104]

Yes but they played him there when Fitz picked up the injury last year so why now deiced to pick Trimble. I hope to see

1.C.Healy
2.S.Cronin
3.M.Ross(won't happen so Tom court but hat won't happen so it will be Buckley)
4.L.Cullen
5.D.Toner
6.S.Ferris
7.SOB
8.J.Heslip
9.P.Stringer
10.J.Sexton
11.K.Earls(again won't happen)
12.G.D'arcy
13.BOD
14.T.Bowe
15.J.Murphy( i think he deserves a game)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I remember that, which is why it's even madder they don't use him now,
Just because he hasn't played wing as much since then, doesn't mean he doesn't know how anymore. Selectors are stupid

 

[Peat]

Hard to tell Conal I'm presuming he was released back because it was probably a shout between him and Trimble for bench and fact that Trimble covers more positions got him the call.

This. Mincer continues to be Ireland's 2nd choice 12 and 3rd choice 10 and is far from finished.

ulster have whitten at 12ithink spence plays 12 aswell both ireland potential in my eyes

Whitten's a good honest player who possibly could be more than he is if he was allowed to do something other than go choo-choo-choo up the channels. But I don't think he'll win too many Ireland caps (although he's already got 2 caps, 2 tries).

Spence has played 12 on occasion. He shouldn't. He played there for the U20s in his second year, played there against Munster although spent most of the game on the wing. He's a brute, closest thing to Andrew Trimble outside Andrew Trimble, but still has hands to develop. Long term, I think he'll either play wing or challenge Cave for the 13 shirt. I have seen people suggest Cave as a 12, but think he'd have to work on his distribution a little. Jonny Shiels played 12 for the U20s, but isn't the biggest and don't think he'll get much of a chance.

This leaves my real suggestion for Ulster's contribution to Ireland's future at 12 - Luke Marshall. Did not look at all out of place against Munster and very unlucky not to have set up a try or two. Physically he's ready (only 19, might get a bit bigger yet), his decision making's good, good boot (kicks for Ballymena), good distribution, good runner... by all accounts he tore Leinster A a new one last week for the Ravens. Has everything needed, now its up to him and Ulster for him to become the real deal. Think he'll oust Mincer in a couple of years.

Buckley to start and well according to various news reports Trimble is starting over Earls. A disgrace and no mention of Cullen so presumably he isn't starting. Stringer and Sexton are half backs but still I annoyed by that team. Keith Earls should be very annoyed if that is the case that 2 players both in poor-ish form keep him out.

Dare I say Argentina could rattle us too

If I'd been drinking something I'd have spat it out. Court and Healy have been the closest Ireland have looked to stable up front for a looooong time, why tamper with it?

As for Earls... all I can say is Kidney continues to think the right place for Ireland's quickest and most elusive back is out of the 15 come 6N time. As long as he likes actually. No rush.

 

[lynam1104]

I was thinking Luke Marshal long term he very very good in the Leinster/Ulster v Munster/Westies.

 

[munstermuffin]

Lynam Johne Murphy here with us in Wales so he definitely overlooked. As for Wallace I agree he is 2nd choice 12 and 3rd choice 10 but unless D'Arcy is out it seems he is been overlooked in squad. I must say if it is as I've said then I'll be disappointed. Ross needs to be tested and Court has done nothing to loose the jersey while Mushy is only back from injury and at this level is more an impact sub. Cullen DOC and POC are well ahead of rest of 2nd rows so Cullen should be starting if POC out.
Wallace isn't the 80min man at this level any more and while I thought he did well against NZ Leamy impressed on arrival and SOB needs time too. I won't comment on backs because I don't know is it Gaffney or Kidney who is selecting this nonsense like we get 1 part right selecting Stringer/Sexton but outside I wonder

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Mushy is only back from injury and at this level is more an impact sub.

I'm glad you can see that. All the talk that he became a good scrummager over the summer was nonsense. Buckley doesn't go backwards as fast but hasn't been secure when opposition hookers and looseheads put him under pressure. Give him 30 minutes a game off the bench to empty the tank in the scrum and raise hell around the field where admittedly he's been excellent. Mike Ross is the best option to start but everybody's favourite ex-Leinster and Dragons coach has a blind spot towards him.

All I can assume is that the coach prefers Buckley's all-rround impact ahead of Mike Ross' scrummaging prowess. Why pick Ross when all he does is scrummage 10-15 times per game (and 80% of those aren't in key parts of the field)? It's a philosophy I used to agree with but can not see that the psychologic impact of being destroyed in the scrum stretches far beyond those 10-15 set plays per game. Besides, while Ross is definitely no Buckley around the park, he's improved that part of his game hugely.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

According to Gerry Thornley:
IRELAND (probable) v Argentina: G Murphy; T Bowe, B O'Driscoll, G D'Arcy, A Trimble; J Sexton, P Stringer; C Healy, S Cronin, T Buckley, D O'Callaghan, M O'Driscoll, S Ferris, D Wallace, J Heaslip. Replacements: D Varley, T Court, D Toner, D Leamy, E Reddan, R O'Gara, K Earls.


Healy, Cronin and Buckle against Roncero, Ledesma and Scelzo. You don't have to be clairvoyant to know who'll win that battle.

 

[Peat]

According to Gerry Thornley:
IRELAND (probable) v Argentina: G Murphy; T Bowe, B O'Driscoll, G D'Arcy, A Trimble; J Sexton, P Stringer; C Healy, S Cronin, T Buckley, D O'Callaghan, M O'Driscoll, S Ferris, D Wallace, J Heaslip. Replacements: D Varley, T Court, D Toner, D Leamy, E Reddan, R O'Gara, K Earls.


Healy, Cronin and Buckle against Roncero, Ledesma and Scelzo. You don't have to be clairvoyant to know who'll win that battle.

I saw a Will Greenwood article the other day suggesting that at the kick-off against Australia, the English pack should have lined up behind Toby Flood and Flood should have belted the thing out of the ground. As the Ozzies wonder what the hell was going on, the English scrum should walk forwards and explain "I know you boys would like to run around, but first you're going to have your heads shoved up your arses."

I think that would work very well for Argentina here. Christ, I'd even do the odd deliberate knock-on.

 

[munstermuffin]

Snoop that the team I was told too. A disgrace of a team and well Sean O Brien, Cullen and Ross I think have been wasted in terms of been used. As for Earls I think Kidney should just send him over to us here in Wales and play him tonight because if he can't get in when Trimble is always poor for Ireland but is off form for Ulster and Geordan who again was off form and not in original squad then when can he make it. Let's not forget Earls has been on form yet for the 4 matches he has always wore 22. Absolute nonsense. I really thought we'd push forward this Autumn in new stadium and with all provinces going well but it seems that while provinces go forward the national team is stuck in reverse and well there not a hope we will make a WC semifinal

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Munstermuffin, I seem to recall Kidney totally ignored Earls when he was Munster coach too. Earls didn't make his debut for your boys until Tony McGahan took over as boss- by the end of the season he was a Lions tourist.

Peat, Italy tried that against Ireland a few years ago. Instead of kicking the ball 10 metres at the start, they tapped it forward and recollected it thus setting a scrummaging challenge for Ireland from the off. Strangely, Ireland beat them up in the scrum that day when it was meant to be our major weakness.

 

[munstermuffin]

Snoop that was my 1st year involved and Earls wasn't only guy ignored. But I think his philosophy was totally different to Tonys (who I have great time for)
Kidney wanted to have best 24/25 and froze rest out and slightly ignored structures at youth level. When McGahan came in 1 of his first tasks as head coach was to get academy up and running and see if we can produce like Leinster and Ulster do. When it was first mentioned alot including me struggled to see how it'd work but now you look at squad we can produce despite missing internationals and injuries - it's phenomonal and we are improving.

On Buckley it clear he is a powerful man but he does tire and I know we can say he is old but he hasn't yet enough experience I feel starting at 3 for munster to be Irish 3. I feel he is vital to us but only off the bench when others tire and his bulk is more effective.
Ross can scrummage and the start of a game (first few scrums) are vital as a ref gets his views on scrum too so alot of Kidneys calls puzzle me.