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Ireland Summer Tour NZ 2022

Le Frére Alpha said:
NZ are massive favourites, I don't think we'll win a game. A lot of key players fighting injuries, out of form and low on confidence. Provincial form isn't always a great indicator but unless Farrell is a magnificent player manager or lumps in a few of the Ulster lads playing good stuff I don't see what he can do.
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Could win $260 on a $10 bet for Ireland to 3-0... I still reckon it's good money.
 
Umaga's Witness said:
Didn't realise Leinster lost their pro 14 semi too. Who are the injured players?

Presumably the bulls beat Leinster the same way la to hell has twice now, and how saracens had previously, and how france and england have at times against Ireland in recent years. Worth noting that that is the direct opposite of the response the all blacks have had to losing to Ireland in 2018, and probably now too. We determined we needed more mobile forwards with better ball skills. Dropped franks for that reason, and looks like we let big Karl go overseas for the same reason.

Maori all blacks unfortunately have half of their last years squad currently injured or otherwise unavailable. Hopefully some of those players can come back.
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Similar approach but Leinster made this one easy.

Furlong and Sexton aren't 100%. Lowe and Keenan didn't play the last two weeks. And Doris and Conan who had such an impact in November are looking jaded.

I think we're going to have a dip in form this summer and potentially longer.

GoTheNaki said:
Could win $260 on a $10 bet for Ireland to 3-0... I still reckon it's good money.
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I won't be going for it but good luck, hope you win it!
 
Le Frére Alpha said:
Similar approach but Leinster made this one easy.

Furlong and Sexton aren't 100%. Lowe and Keenan didn't play the last two weeks. And Doris and Conan who had such an impact in November are looking jaded.

I think we're going to have a dip in form this summer and potentially longer.



I won't be going for it but good luck, hope you win it!
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Kelleher and Beirne also not looking likely wt this point.

Still I think we will win one test at least on this tour. Its easy to be doom and gloom after the last few weeks for Leinster but Ireland is a different environment and we match up a lot better with NZ.
 
If provincial form was anything to go by Wales wouldn't have won a game in the last ten years, and I think they've won at least one.

I think taking a test is a pretty reasonable expectation for us.
 
Umaga's Witness said:
Didn't realise Leinster lost their pro 14 semi too. Who are the injured players?

Presumably the bulls beat Leinster the same way la to hell has twice now, and how saracens had previously, and how france and england have at times against Ireland in recent years. Worth noting that that is the direct opposite of the response the all blacks have had to losing to Ireland in 2018, and probably now too. We determined we needed more mobile forwards with better ball skills. Dropped franks for that reason, and looks like we let big Karl go overseas for the same reason.

Maori all blacks unfortunately have half of their last years squad currently injured or otherwise unavailable. Hopefully some of those players can come back.
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In fairness the sport looked like mobile forwards with good hands, who are just strong enough to not be dominated up front was the way to go (from 2010 to 2019). It seemed like the era of the dominant pack being the key to victory was over (see consistent Irish and Welsh success in the 6N against stronger packs). Then the Boks won the last RWC in a masterclass of pack power and the issue seems to be getting 'worse' again, with a great side like Ireland and Leinster being completely vulnerable to hypothetical one trick ponies. You still get strange results like Scottish success against England (I'd argue because the English aren't flexing their pack enough).

I don't have a good enough understanding of enforcment at the breakdown or what factors might be causing the re-emergence of power rugby, but I hope it goes away soon. For whatever reason the Boks, England and France are light years ahead of the rest in terms of access to freakishly big units.

Long story short, if I was running NZ rugby I'd be hopelessly lost in terms of what attributes to prioritise in my forwards.
 
JGP, Sexton, Lowe, Henshaw, Hume, Balacoune, Keenan

Casey, Carbery, Ringrose

That's what I want in the backs, Hume honestly deserves his shot. Ringer hasn't been bad but Hume has been the best player in the country the last month or so.
 
Tbh if I was McCloskey I'd be gutted.

I'm not even gonna bother getting into a debate about him, but he's been ridiculous this season and there's a strong argument he's been even better than Hume.

Watch any of Hume's breaks this year and a large majority is entirely set up but Stu with either an offload in contact, drawing in multiple defenders, or a sublime pass.

He deserved a chance. If he doesn't then what's the point. We know how good Aki is and what he brings. The only argument I can see is that we'd be a little too inexperienced in the centres but that's what these tours are for 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
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No Balacoune is criminal, Earls should be nowhere near and Larmour lucky too.

I'd have taken Cooney over Murray too. The Ulster boys should be ****** at this one.

Delighted for Jimmy and HB.

Kelleher a huge loss.

Edit: Apparently Balacoune is injured. Shame
 
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Think Healy should be in there tbh. No Baloucoune is the biggest shame.
 
GoTheNaki said:
Could win $260 on a $10 bet for Ireland to 3-0... I still reckon it's good money.
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I'd say Ireland winning 3-0 is as likely as Wales winning all 3 games out in SA. Actually that is harsh on Ireland and injuries or not I think they'll win 1 game but got a feeling it'll be the final test after NZ have won the first 2. Should be good games though and I expect all 3 to be relatively close.
 
Le Frére Alpha said:
No Balacoune is criminal, Earls should be nowhere near and Larmour lucky too.

I'd have taken Cooney over Murray too. The Ulster boys should be ****** at this one.

Delighted for Jimmy and HB.

Kelleher a huge loss.

Edit: Apparently Balacoune is injured. Shame
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Feel like someone always jumps the gun annoyed x hasn't been selected when they're injured...

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Smaller squad than I expected, Kelleher a big loss as is Balacoune for my money and Conway. Delighted for McCarthy.
 
Not really going to argue on anyone missing out as it all tight calls and would have went different with 1 or 2.
But on the actual squad. I can't see us winning series. If Sexton goes down I don't think Joey will be flying fit to lead it and don't think Harry Byrne is good enough to be in squad yet but again can't say alternatives would be better.

It will be winter rugby we are playing also and after a long season I fear for durability of some while others are going out undercooked. But I suppose it is a free shot.
 
I think my biggest (and it's not very big) gripe is the squad size. Would have liked to bring a big touring squad with guys thrown in to the Maori.

Can't say it's an exciting squad. Do worry that our players will show up fairly shattered.
 
Yeah I think two more players could have been fitted easily. Would have liked to see McElroy and Doak.

Baird listed as backrow is mildly interesting. Turning him into a PSTD type player could be the move, dont think he's tough enough for the row.
 
Putting it out front that I'm putting all of my Ulster bias into this post.

How do Ulster only have two backs in this squad? It would have been three with Balacoune but even still.

- What more does McCloskey have to do? He's been exceptional this season and remarkably consistent and, as stated above, he's a huge part of the reason Hume has looked so good.
- Billy Burns should be on the plane. He isn't the flashiest player and doesn't get a lot of credit but he is a key reason the Ulster backline has performed so well. You only have to look at the games where he was missing to see how key he has been. I think one missed touch against Wales is living in people's memory. I haven't seen all of Muster's games this year but from what I have seen Carberry has been bang average, H Byrne can't even make the Leinster 23 for a semi-final.
- It's obvously too late for Cooney now but it's such a shame. Can anyone honeslty say that Murray has been near Cooney's level this season?

Honourable mention to McElroy who has had a fantastic season - didn't expect a call up but could be knocking on the door soon.

Rant over

To be balanced I think Treadwell is fortunate to be travelling - another guy who can't get into the XV for Ulster.
 
collace said:
Putting it out front that I'm putting all of my Ulster bias into this post.

How do Ulster only have two backs in this squad? It would have been three with Balacoune but even still.

- What more does McCloskey have to do? He's been exceptional this season and remarkably consistent and, as stated above, he's a huge part of the reason Hume has looked so good.
- Billy Burns should be on the plane. He isn't the flashiest player and doesn't get a lot of credit but he is a key reason the Ulster backline has performed so well. You only have to look at the games where he was missing to see how key he has been. I think one missed touch against Wales is living in people's memory. I haven't seen all of Muster's games this year but from what I have seen Carberry has been bang average, H Byrne can't even make the Leinster 23 for a semi-final.
- It's obvously too late for Cooney now but it's such a shame. Can anyone honeslty say that Murray has been near Cooney's level this season?

Honourable mention to McElroy who has had a fantastic season - didn't expect a call up but could be knocking on the door soon.

Rant over

To be balanced I think Treadwell is fortunate to be travelling - another guy who can't get into the XV for Ulster.
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To be very fair I could say same about Jacko or Alex for Munster and at a stretch Jean Kleyn or Josh Wych (who I was sure would go for development)
Balacoune is the guy I want to see as he has it all I think and is a real complete winger. And a finisher. Earls hasn't legs but Earls was a natural natural finisher and I think here is te heir to his throne now in the squad.
But again who would they replace. McCloskey is a 12. Would you take him over Aki or Henshaw?
On Billy B - As I said above I agree there is alot of hype on Harry yet I haven't seen it yet in play but an argument could be made for all sides. But again it is tight.
On Murray well I guess he has played well for Ireland as that finisher role. And that is why he is getting spot.

It was mentioned as interesting how many players are in our squad that can't cement a place in 23 never mind 15.
Like if you start at front row. Loughman probably struggles to get in 23 in a fully fit Munster.
Lock - Joe McCarthy (I glad he is touring) and Treadwell
Backrow - Ryan Baird
9 - Casey
10 - Harry B
Centre - Ciaran Frawley
Wings - Larmour/Jimmy O'Brien.

Not saying they are not deserving to tour just it is an interesting observation
 
munstermuffin said:
To be very fair I could say same about Jacko or Alex for Munster and at a stretch Jean Kleyn or Josh Wych (who I was sure would go for development)
Balacoune is the guy I want to see as he has it all I think and is a real complete winger. And a finisher. Earls hasn't legs but Earls was a natural natural finisher and I think here is te heir to his throne now in the squad.
But again who would they replace. McCloskey is a 12. Would you take him over Aki or Henshaw?
On Billy B - As I said above I agree there is alot of hype on Harry yet I haven't seen it yet in play but an argument could be made for all sides. But again it is tight.
On Murray well I guess he has played well for Ireland as that finisher role. And that is why he is getting spot.

It was mentioned as interesting how many players are in our squad that can't cement a place in 23 never mind 15.
Like if you start at front row. Loughman probably struggles to get in 23 in a fully fit Munster.
Lock - Joe McCarthy (I glad he is touring) and Treadwell
Backrow - Ryan Baird
9 - Casey
10 - Harry B
Centre - Ciaran Frawley
Wings - Larmour/Jimmy O'Brien.

Not saying they are not deserving to tour just it is an interesting observation
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Jimmy is a nailed on starter for Leinster, Larmour has a lot of work to do to get him back.
 

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