Ireland: 6 Nations plusses, minuses and where to go from here

[lynam1104]

he kinda has a point we go from super juese rob kery to let's kill him

 

[An Tarbh]

The biggest minus for me is the fact that Kidney contradicted himself massively. In a tight game at Twickenham he empties the bench and it comes up trumps, in the same scenario against the Scots he sticks with the status quo for the most part and it costs us massive, I'm convinced we would have won the game had we had a functioning lineout in the last 30 minutes. Just hope to God he isn't picking up Eddie's bad habits.

 

[Gavin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Leinsterrock @ Mar 22 2010, 10:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

he kinda has a point we go from super juese rob kery to let's kill him[/b]

Why thank you Don't worry in six months time Kearney will be the 3rd Jesus, a reincarnation of himself.

 

[munstermuffin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gavin @ Mar 22 2010, 08:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Just because Kearney has had a few bad games, everyone wants him dropped. Remember he is only back from an injury. Whatever happened to Kearney being the 2nd Jesus camp?[/b]

Kearney was poor before injury too and if you remember he was dropped at start of season for Leinster and only got back in because Luke Fitz had injury.

Hope he does return to form though as Ireland could do with an on-form Kearney.

 

[Gavin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (munstermuffin @ Mar 23 2010, 02:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gavin @ Mar 22 2010, 08:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just because Kearney has had a few bad games, everyone wants him dropped. Remember he is only back from an injury. Whatever happened to Kearney being the 2nd Jesus camp?[/b]

Kearney was poor before injury too and if you remember he was dropped at start of season for Leinster and only got back in because Luke Fitz had injury.

Hope he does return to form though as Ireland could do with an on-form Kearney.
[/b][/quote]
Personally I would not have called his form poor, but nothing like the form he produced on the Lions Tour in South Africa.

 

[bristol-iain]

Kearney did come from nowhere to be one of the top 15's in the NH. His performances in SA during the summer were brilliant and afterwards he hasn't been able to come close and doesn't look as good as the summer.

That in itself raises a question, how many of the players who went to SA have continued their level of performances since, in the backs especially. I can only say Stephen Jones and even thats not exactly as the summer but far better than every-one else.. Everyone else has either had injuries of drops in form, perhaps the Lions tour took so much out of the players they cant physiaclly and mentally raise their games back to what it was then.

Just an idea.

 

[MunsterMan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nickdnz @ Mar 22 2010, 09:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

In the NH todays "world class" is tomorrows "waste of space".[/b]

Kearney is world class, but an inferior player to Mils and Byrne, and Poitrenaud on his day. Still an awesome player second to none under the highball with a cannon of a left boot, not many better full backs than him around, but he is out of form and lacks the pace and attacking instinct of Mils and Byrne.

 

[Bullitt]

"World class" is the most bullshit phase in the English Language.

 

[gingergenius]

Ireland fans shouldn't take this 6N too badly.

In 2009 you managed to develop a team that was not the world's best, but up there, and given your player base, this is outstanding.

However, this 6N has outlined where Ireland are very limited. 2009 was so successful because of your star players - POC, Ferris, Wallace, Heaslip, BOD, Bowe and Kearney all playing at the top of their games, and other players playing very well too.

This 6N, all of those guys besides Wallace and Bowe have been, for whatever reasons, below their 2009 form.

In this situation, Ireland needed the rest of the team to step up a gear to compensate. But the front row was so poor that the forwards have had little platform to attack from. Tomas O Leary is a very ordinary scrum half and doesn't help matters.

For a nation like Ireland, who have a limited amount of players to choose from, great teams are going to be uncommon - you're lucky that there's a large number of outstanding Irish players around atm. If those players aren't on top form for more than a year at a time, then long term success isn't going to happen. Look at Wales.

I'd be happy that at the moment, Ireland are making the most of what they've got. 10 years ago, you wouldn't have dreamed of winning at Twickenham - recently, this isn't a surprise.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Very good post gingergenius. If I may address it bit by bit:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Ireland fans shouldn't take this 6N too badly.[/b]

True. Looking at the bigger picture, they finished 2nd in the tournament. One bad result versus Scotland doesn't make this a bad team.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

In 2009 you managed to develop a team that was not the world's best, but up there, and given your player base, this is outstanding.[/b]

Once again this is true. Nobody believed Ireland were the best team on the planet but 2009 was a very good year.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

However, this 6N has outlined where Ireland are very limited. 2009 was so successful because of your star players - POC, Ferris, Wallace, Heaslip, BOD, Bowe and Kearney all playing at the top of their games, and other players playing very well too.[/b]

I slightly disagree. The 2010 6 Nations showed that Ireland play a very limited, safe brand of rugby rather than the players are limited. It's terribly boring to watch and doesn't get the most out of the more ralented players in the team. Why should Tommy Bowe and Keith Earls chase kicks all day when they're excellent strike runners?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

This 6N, all of those guys besides Wallace and Bowe have been, for whatever reasons, below their 2009 form.[/b]

Lions tour hangover. I've made no secret of my disdain for the Lions and the sheer pointlessness of the tours every 4 years. Tradition is one thing but flogging players on an end of season tour with a scratch team for the sake of a few dollars is a waste of time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

In this situation, Ireland needed the rest of the team to step up a gear to compensate. But the front row was so poor that the forwards have had little platform to attack from. Tomas O Leary is a very ordinary scrum half and doesn't help matters.[/b]

Yep, spot on. Heaslip, Bowe and Earls apart, Ireland weren't good in this tournament. As I mentioned in the Ireland v Scotland thread, the scrum isn't being given a chance to succeed due to a lack of proper coaching. I agree about O'Leary being limited but unfortunately he's the best we have at the minute. At his best, attacking behind a dominant pack, he can be deadly. On other occasions his passing is slow, he's ponderous behind a ruck and his box kicking is nowhere near good enough. I'd like to see Isaac Boss given a run.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

For a nation like Ireland, who have a limited amount of players to choose from, great teams are going to be uncommon - you're lucky that there's a large number of outstanding Irish players around atm. If those players aren't on top form for more than a year at a time, then long term success isn't going to happen. Look at Wales.[/b]

Players like Brian O'Driscoll only appear once every 30 years. We're privileged to watch him play and won't see his like for a long time in an Ireland shirt.

The IRFU should be commended for the work they're doing growing the sport here. The numbers playing underage rugby are growing considerably. Something which hasn't been commented on but is very significant is that the Ireland u18 clubs team beat the u18 schools team for the first time this season. It's significant because the vast majority of Irish internationals come from the schools system. The growth of the club game is helping expand rugby's base from being a traditionally middle class game to a sport which embraces all. That will translate to a larger playing pool from which to pick players down the line.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

I'd be happy that at the moment, Ireland are making the most of what they've got. 10 years ago, you wouldn't have dreamed of winning at Twickenham - recently, this isn't a surprise.[/b]

Ireland are close to reaching their full potential at the moment. A few tweaks (such as embracing a more attacking gameplan and tackling the **** poor scrum) and they can challenge for a 6 Nations crown again next season. Anybody who thinks a World Cup win is possible is deluded though.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

The funny thing is, bar the England game, I thought Bowe was pretty 'Meh' throughout the Six Nations, having watched him score week-in, week-out for the Ospreys, but then I find myself on the RTE website, and he's their player of the tournement...

 

[coonor]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DuncTheDoodle @ Mar 22 2010, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The funny thing is, bar the England game, I thought Bowe was pretty 'Meh' throughout the Six Nations, having watched him score week-in, week-out for the Ospreys, but then I find myself on the RTE website, and he's their player of the tournement...[/b]

I dont think you can compare club level to international level.
you have to play with top quality players all the time at international level which means its alway harder to school tries

 

[munstermuffin]

Lads lets look on bonus side,

Earls is really after storming on to International stage and we have yet another International Quality Back.

Sexton has proved (apart from kicking thus far) that he can really cut loose a backline.
We now have 2 different quality 10's that can have massive impact on game.

We now have competition for places.

And when everyone is fully fit we do have younger quality players coming through:
(Sean O'Brien, Kevin McLaughlin, Donnacha Ryan and Sean Cronin)

As has been said 1 game doesn't make us a bad team but we know while we not there yet we still in a very good position going to World Cup.

And as we know in World Cup we will have to beat either Austrailia or New Zealand (if we loose to Aus in group) to achieve that Semi-Final spot which is our goal.

 

[Jockstap]

For me
Positives-
-Ireland have proven they can score tries, even with minimal ball. They've scored more tries than any team bar France with 11. Considering we got 12 last year and two of those were lucky intercepts against Italy that's encouraging.

-In Earls we've found a proven finisher who's joint top try scorer in the tournament, more importantly though is he performed brilliantly in the centre at 13 with O'Driscoll.

-Sexton, while he obviously had a poor showing at goal kicking he was quality in open play and Ireland definitely look more dangerous with him at the wheel.

-New faces, when was the last time we had so many in the Six Nations, Healy, Sexton, Cullen, Cronin, Buckley, Jennings, McLaughlin. It's so refreshing after the EOS era.

-We haven't relied so heavily on BOD this season and we still managed to come second with only a 1 try deficit from last season when he got 4 tries.

-Lineout

Negatives
-Discipline, we were by far the most penalised side in the competition, this was the only thing that kept England, Wales in the games against us. It also didn't do us any favors with Scotland but they still fully deserved the win.

-Sexton - he left a lot of points behind him.

-Hayes, a legend and great servant but sadly passed it.

 

[coonor]

POSITIVES

Lineout was good for most of the tournement

new quality players coming through this means there will be more competiton which will help to keep players in top form

scored quite a few tries and our defence was good most of the time


NEGATIVES

scrum was bad in every game

we need to keep the ball more a string together more phases

we made to many errors in bad positions

goal kicking was bad by sexton even though he is deffinatly capable of kicking

 

[Gavin]

Positive -

We are heading back to Lansdowne road

Negative -

We lost our first and last matches at Croke Park

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gavin @ Mar 23 2010, 05:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

We lost our first and last matches at Croke Park[/b]

What did people make of Croker as a venue? I hated it. Fans were too far from the pitch and if you had a seat in the first 10 rows, you always had a terrible view. Of all the games held there, only two had a good atmosphere - England's visit in 2007 and the Heineken Cup semi final last year. It's a fine stadium for GAA but the pitch is too large for other sports.

 

[feicarsinn]

Pretty much sums it up. Great for the GAA games (Was at the Wexford Cork game a few years back, the one where Rory Jacob got that goal in the last minute, best athmosphere I've ever seen) but it's lacking for other sports. You feel somewhat detaced.

 

[King_D'Arcy]

I personally blame Croke Park for our loss against Scotland.

 

[Gavin]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (King D'arcy @ Mar 24 2010, 07:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I personally blame Croke Park for our loss against Scotland.[/b]

So does Stephen Ferris