Heineken Cup talks "have now ended"

[ratsapprentice]

^A drastic effort to try and shake a badly misfiring team into some form.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Gloucester shoving two fingers up to the Sky competition and saving their players for their BT backed League?

 

[Feicarsinn]

It's a touch shameful really. They got an important win last week to essentially stop the rot. Instead of looking to build on that momentum against a Munster side that were really poor a week ago they're throwing in the towel before they even arrive in Limerick.

 

[coolbawn]

Quite hard to disagree with you, Prestwick, re what should have been happening at ERC. Would like to see the minutes of meetings prior to the Franglais clubs giving notice before condemning them *all* - bearing in mind that McClaughtery was their Commercial Chairman.

So is the 10% to Ireland (3-4 clubs participating) deemed to be fair compared with the 30% to England (6 clubs participating but 12 in top tier) purely because of TV audiences ? I'm not arguing against it - just trying to understand the likely rationale.

Does the prize money tend to be insignificant compared to the main split ? That could be a bone of contention.

And should the split be adjusted to reflect where the extra 2 clubs come from ? Or is that irrelevant cos it's all about TV viewers ?

Not that any of us knows anything yet.

 

[ratsapprentice]

It's a touch shameful really. They got an important win last week to essentially stop the rot. Instead of looking to build on that momentum against a Munster side that were really poor a week ago they're throwing in the towel before they even arrive in Limerick.

The team for this week was picked before the game last week.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It's a touch shameful really. They got an important win last week to essentially stop the rot. Instead of looking to build on that momentum against a Munster side that were really poor a week ago they're throwing in the towel before they even arrive in Limerick.

Initially I thought the same, but the side isn't toooooooo bad.
Flyhalf is the main sore point - I can understand Burns only being on the bench as he's only just back from illness (back training a couple of days ago). Twelvetrees has played every minute this season, so far, so it makes sense to rest him....but not in this game.

To be honest, if you had Burns starting instead of benching no one would really bat an eyelid at the side. If you look at the 23 it's not like they've put out their 3rds. Pack is strong and I know Gloucester fans have been calling for Cox/Qera to start on the flanks all season.

 

[Prestwick]

Quite hard to disagree with you, Prestwick, re what should have been happening at ERC. Would like to see the minutes of meetings prior to the Franglais clubs giving notice before condemning them *all* - bearing in mind that McClaughtery was their Commercial Chairman.

So is the 10% to Ireland (3-4 clubs participating) deemed to be fair compared with the 30% to England (6 clubs participating but 12 in top tier) purely because of TV audiences ? I'm not arguing against it - just trying to understand the likely rationale.

Does the prize money tend to be insignificant compared to the main split ? That could be a bone of contention.

And should the split be adjusted to reflect where the extra 2 clubs come from ? Or is that irrelevant cos it's all about TV viewers ?

Not that any of us knows anything yet.

I'm trying to work out how 10% is better for the IRFU/WRU than what they're getting presently. I mean, are the SRU and FIR getting 30% each out of the Pro12's cut with Ireland and Wales having to fight over the rest? I'd love to see a proper breakdown of the final agreement and compare it to the last H-Cup agreement.

Also I stress that I'm not giving the PRL a free pass here. They're just as much to blame here for this fiasco.

 

[j'nuh]

Gloucester shoving two fingers up to the Sky competition and saving their players for their BT backed League?

The most ridiculous jump in logic I've seen on these boards, tbh.

Gloucester have put out a competitive side. It has all the first-team props we have that are fit and available to us. It has Will James, who played in 19/22 Premiership games last year. It has Qera, who was nominated for player of the year in the Premiership last year. It has Cox, a player the fans have wanted to see. It has Morgan, the England 8, who needs more time to prove himself. It has Robson and Mills, two of the hottest prospects in their respective positions for England. It has Tindall, our best, fit, 13. It has May and Sharples, two England Saxons wingers.

The truth is that after seeing Gloucester play some of their worst rugby I've seen them play (we have 2 wins-3 losses, but it could have easily been 0-5), something had to change. So last week, Nigel Davies announced two teams to the squad: one to face Munster, one to face Perpignan. You could argue that it paid immediate dividends, with an improved performance and deserved win against Perpignan.

Other than the poor start, we need to consider what we are going to do when we don't have Burns and Twelvetrees. So Bentley and Mills have been given a run out together. There also needs to be a degree of rotation, as Twelvetrees, JSD, Savage, Kalamafoni and Kvesic have been used mercilessly since the start. Glos have had a recent problem of overplaying the first team, and finishing the season poorly with a tired first team and dejected second team.

Why do this against Munster away? Because it is the only game within the next few months where we can afford to lose.

Honestly, I'm looking forward to it. I really want to see what some of these players can do, and we have a relatively strong bench to come on too. I have no expectations of a win, but I wouldn't with the first team either. At least now it'll be interesting to see who could play themselves into contention for the first team.

 

[coolbawn]

Very dangerous / brave to complain about the Gloucester team before the match !!

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

@j'nuh
I really need to make better use of smilies. My post wasn't serious. Taking the **** doesn't translate too well on the internet unfortunately!

Is Shane Monahan injured?

 

[Tony Manx]

@j'nuh
I really need to make better use of smilies. My post wasn't serious. Taking the **** doesn't translate too well on the internet unfortunately!

Is Shane Monahan injured?

Would not the continuation of this topic re Glaws and Munster be better on the H Cup match thread.....................just saying!!

 

[French TommyGun]

HELP! I really need to watch the Toulouse vs Saracens tonight but I haven't got sky sports! does anyone know of a site that is streaming it for free???

 

[coolbawn]

[[NO STREAMS]]

Maybe next year you'll be able to watch the match in the Franglais World Championship Cup ! What a gripping thought.

 

[j'nuh]

@j'nuh
I really need to make better use of smilies. My post wasn't serious. Taking the **** doesn't translate too well on the internet unfortunately!

Is Shane Monahan injured?

Whoops! This is slightly embarrassing for both of us then. :lol:

And yeah he is, a long-term one too that he picked up in pre-season. Looked decent last season, but when he returns he's got his work cut out to get time with May, Sharples and JSD gunning for places now. :huh:

 

[Prestwick]

Now the latest news is that the Unions are close to a deal which will allow the Pro12 clubs to join the new Champions Cup. Kudos to Ian Richie for pulling this off.

Still though, really want to know what the revenue split will be and if this will actually save Welsh club rugby?

 

[St George]

Now the latest news is that the Unions are close to a deal which will allow the Pro12 clubs to join the new Champions Cup. Kudos to Ian Richie for pulling this off.

Still though, really want to know what the revenue split will be and if this will actually save Welsh club rugby?

Looks like you're right if ESPN have got things right:

http://www.espnscrum.com/heineken-cup-2013-14/rugby/story/203221.html

"Talks are progressing over the future of European Rugby with reports suggesting the teams in the RaboDirect PRO12 are looking into joining the breakaway Rugby Champions Cup. The Rugby Paper says the six Unions that make up the Heineken Cup - Italy, Scotland, Wales, England, Ireland and France - have met in London and a "peace deal is in the process of being hammered out".
The PRO12's four Unions have previously, publically, been in favour of staying in the Heineken Cup but now it seems their mindset is changing with the newspaper saying the most probable outcome is having all six Unions "reunited under the new Anglo-French banner, the Rugby Champions Cup."
European Rugby Cup Ltd - the body in charge of the Heineken Cup - has called a meeting of the relevant stakeholders for October 23 but the Anglo-French clubs are adamant they have no intention of attending the get-together in Dublin.
Instead, the Anglo-French clubs are planning to unveil the Rugby Champions Cup at a press conference either later this month or at the start of November.
"It's very clear - there will be the Rugby Champions' Cup next season or nothing," Ligue Nationale de Rugby chief Paul Goze told the Rugby Paper. "Some pretend they do not realise this.
"The Champions' Cup is the only competition. It will be organised with the British and anyone who wants to join us. There are a lot of official discussions and informal talks. We feel there is real interest in this competition."


Unless the highlighted bit is a Gallic slip which meant to be "English" , then it suggests that allcomers are welcome....including the Saffers.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

The Welsh regions have given their backing to the Franco-English proposal:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24632135?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

[BasqueBete]

FAF, the enivitable rolls nearer...

 

[TRF_Cymro]

The official statement:

Tuesday 22nd October 2013

"Regional Rugby Wales (RRW) on behalf of the four Welsh Regions confirms its full support for the proposed new Rugby Champions Cup Competitions.


"Whilst there remain elements of detail to be confirmed, it is now clear that there are a number of significant advantages to the new competitions in equality of governance, format, qualification and distribution across the individual participating Clubs.

"Consequently, RRW looks forward to working with the WRU to support their efforts and positive engagement in striving to ensure our teams are involved in strong, valuable European Clubs Competitions in time for next season."

 

[j'nuh]

This does look like the end game now. Now the Welsh have backed it, I can't see anything other than a unified tournament next year. Irish, Italians, Scottish (and Toulon) should follow soon.