Heineken Cup talks "have now ended"

[Leonormous Boozer]

I haven't really been following this but have they said anything about a secondary tournament or is it a big **** you to the likes of Zebre and Edinburgh?

 

[Amiga500]

The Welsh regions have given their backing to the Franco-English proposal:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24632135?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

No surprise there then.


If anyone was going to be stupid enough to jump over the cliff searching for a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow... it was the Welsh regions.


Stupid stupid stupid stupid bunch of bstarts. You would think at least one of them would have been bright enough to ponder; "hold on a second, if the PRL clubs stand to benefit more from this relative to us, aren't they going to be able to increase their wage offerings more than us? Then why exactly would our best players then stay here rather than cross over and play in England?" :huh:

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I do wonder what the WRU reaction will be. Do they threaten to withdraw funding from RRW or do they break rank from the IRFU and SRU? This has more twists and turns than a bad soap opera!

In a perverse sense this unseemly mess is really, really fascinating!

 

[j'nuh]

No surprise there then.


If anyone was going to be stupid enough to jump over the cliff searching for a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow... it was the Welsh regions.


Stupid stupid stupid stupid bunch of bstarts. You would think at least one of them would have been bright enough to ponder; "hold on a second, if the PRL clubs stand to benefit more from this relative to us, aren't they going to be able to increase their wage offerings more than us? Then why exactly would our best players then stay here rather than cross over and play in England?" :huh:

So the better option was to stay in the HC, watch the marketable value plummet, see sponsors pull out/reduce their deals, and lose all their players anyway at an increased rate because the Welsh are even worse off relatively than they would be by staying in the HC?

The Welsh are better off in real terms, security, and in relative terms, than had they stayed in the HC.

 

[coolbawn]

"The Welsh are better off in real terms, security, and in relative terms, than had they stayed in the HC." may be comparing apples and oranges. You may be right but we don't (yet) know what the next "version" of the HC would have been.

 

[Amiga500]

The Welsh are better off in real terms, security, and in relative terms, than had they stayed in the HC.

You make the assumption there would have been no HEC.

Despite all the bluster of McCafferty et al, I am quite sure that would never have come to pass.

 

[BasqueBete]

Ha ha, so the welsh are stupid...etc

Anyone for the mega mega mega Irish / Irish cup ?

 

[Feicarsinn]

Ha ha, so the welsh are stupid...etc

Anyone for the mega mega mega Irish / Irish cup ?

Heh, that's essentially what they Heineken Cup's been for the last few years buddy.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Ha ha, so the welsh are stupid...etc

Anyone for the mega mega mega Irish / Irish cup ?

Welsh running mindlessly into this tournament whereas it's likely the other unions were trying to negotiate a better deal. So not only have the Welsh left themselves with a lower earning potential from this tournament they have also left the other unions in a position where they will have to accept **** all money to participate in a European trophy. So yes pretty stupid!

 

[TRF_Cymro]

From what I hear and gather, the regions have been offered a very generous deal to join the new cup. Would have been stupid not to join.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

From what I hear and gather, the regions have been offered a very generous deal to join the new cup. Would have been stupid not to join.

They could have always got more though. The French/English tournament would have had a significantly lower earning potential and lifespan. Obviously I don't know the figures but had they held out longer the sum would have increased. Hopefully the IRFU can drag it out and get more than the other unions considering that Thomond Park, RDS, Ravenhill and Lansdowne road are all in the top 10 venues for European cup matches.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Never know - if the HEC is no more, and English and French clubs will not play in anything but their new tournament, surely it was a matter of time before the others joined (at least in the PRL/French eyes).
They could easily have said to the celtic sides: join us now for XXX million, or wait 6 months and get XXX-15%.

I wouldn't have thought that the celtic nations have massive bargaining chips considering an English/French comp would be more successful due to larger tv viewing figures, and the alternative tournament just being the Pro12 under a different name.

 

[BasqueBete]

so some people have backed themselves in to a really **** position....and I ain't talking about the Anglo French...they tried to reason. They were ignored, they have now smashed it to smithereens.....

Lmfao......

And now the abuse is it aimed at the welsh because they have done the sensible thing....

 

[m0rris]

Quite. PRL are no angels and I wouldn't dream to paint them as such. However, the negotiations with ERC have failed and they went and did their own thing, securing more money for them in the process. Now the Welsh have sided with the ECC it'll surely be a matter of time before the Scots, sponsored by BTSport, follow... Leaving the Irish in a bit of a hole.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

The Irish will follow, there's no doubt about that. We don't really what the name of the European cup we win is, but one thing the IRFU is better at than any of the other unions is wrangling as much money as they can out of a given situation. That's why Johnny Sexton plays in France as well.

 

[BasqueBete]

They won't be negotiating jacks hit...they will get what their given, end of....it's amazing ( but not really ) how far some people have their head so far up their arses...

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

it's amazing ( but not really ) how far some people have their head so far up their arses...

Please, please close the thread on this.

 

[Feicarsinn]

In fairness, I think you're both dealing with the extreme end of the situation. To say that Ireland wont be able to negotiate anything is silly, but so is the assumption that the union will do better than they currently are out of the Heineken Cup.

Fact of the matter is that Ireland brings an awful lot to the table. In Munster, Ulster and Leinster you're looking at three of the biggest sides in Europe, who between them have as many ***les as all of the French sides and all of the English sides. Any new European competition is going to want those guys in badly. It'd be hard for a new tournament to market itself as a European Cup if some of Europe's most dominant teams aren't in it. It'd be the same as trying to go ahead without Toulouse, Leicester and Clermont.

That said, the French and English league organizations will be calling the shots for the time being. We lose a lot of negotiating ground due to that. Hopefully the IRFU will be smart and send representatives from the provincial branches as opposed to an IRFU official, it'd probably go down better. If we end up with something similar to what we have now (ie. earning roughly what the English sides get) I'd be happy enough.

 

[Rich Taff]

I'd just like to commend all those who have said 'could have' and not 'could of'. 'could of' reeeally irks me

 

[erwanseb]

Apparently, they have said they will play in the Heineken Cup next year...

http://www.thescore.ie/toulon-heineken-cup-1134478-Oct2013/

... so they must have some inkling that it will go ahead as planned

Looks to me like one side is just beginning to flinch. All it will take is for one or two more Top 14 Clubs to go the same way, and the Rugby Champions Cup will be over before anyone even sees what the trophy looks like.

One side is beginning to flinch, at least this is right.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/oct/22/wales-rugby-champions-cup-heineken