H Cup Quarter Final : Harlequins vs Munster

[munstermuffin]

Would I just add if your playing all this slick rugby and wining F all that don't make you a top team. And I always use Leinster as prime example up to 09 they were a team of just flash and showboat rugby but then they changed it up and while keeping the bit of flash players like Cullen and Jennings who have no skill (per say) but work rate like and did dirty work and the balance occurred. Munster aren't a final article and maybe they border top 8 but you can only judge a team on it competitions and where it finishes and they have done it. Obviously others like Leinster are above us but been honest there not a lot maybe Toulouse, Leinster but who else

 

[big ginger 8]

Leinster, Ulster, Clermont, Toulon, Harlequins, Toulouse, Leicster, Saracens and probably Montpellier are all probably better. This is not saying Munster are bad by the way just not as good as teams and as they once were.

 

[munstermuffin]

Yes but as I said they all in QFs bar Leinster and Toulouse (although I think Toulouse are bit over hyped lately) as in I still think Munster are Top 8-10 in my opinion and it debatable with Sarries in my opinion

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

So O'Choke sabotaged his performance to prove a point because he's petty? Grand.


Can't see anything past Quins for this - Munster's tight play is overrated to the extreme these days, Quins can match them there and then they've got the backs to beat them elsewhere (especially with ROG at 10). That's before factoring in that it's a home game.

Yeah because coming off the bench and trying to force a game where the players around you have given up is the same as starting?

 

[big ginger 8]

Yeah because coming off the bench and trying to force a game where the players around you have given up is the same as starting?

Yeah cause everyone had given up.

Can't help but feel your childhood love of RO'G is strongly influencing your opinion on him.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yeah cause everyone had given up.

Can't help but feel your childhood love of RO'G is strongly influencing your opinion on him.

It probably is but to say coming off the bench for a twenty minute cameo is the same as starting and he therefore sabotaged his own performance is ridiculous.

Also your point on everyone giving up makes no sense and as you have mentioned my grammatical mistakes I feel obliged to inform you that you have forgotten your pronoun so I am now unaware to who it is who can't help but feel that my childhood love of RO'G is strongly influencing my opinion on him.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

What? I didn't say that a bench appearance is the same as starting, I'm saying that if what you insinuated (that ROG purposefully played badly because he was on the bench behind someone he thought he was better than and he was spitting his dummy out) was true then he's a knobber.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

What? I didn't say that a bench appearance is the same as starting, I'm saying that if what you insinuated (that ROG purposefully played badly because he was on the bench behind someone he thought he was better than and he was spitting his dummy out) was true then he's a knobber.

I didn't say that though, I said that he said that had he started he could have done a job and it was a very difficult position to come off the bench for a struggling team for a player who had and will continue to **** everything up for the team and play well, I don't think any player would ever purposely play badly just out of spite.

 

[big ginger 8]

It probably is but to say coming off the bench for a twenty minute cameo is the same as starting and he therefore sabotaged his own performance is ridiculous.

Also your point on everyone giving up makes no sense and as you have mentioned my grammatical mistakes I feel obliged to inform you that you have forgotten your pronoun so I am now unaware to who it is who can't help but feel that my childhood love of RO'G is strongly influencing my opinion on him.

You cmac95 really are thick.

 

[Peat]

Harlequins: Brown; Williams, Lowe, Casson, Monye; Evans, Care; Marler, Buchanan, Johnston, Kohn, Robson, Fa'asavalu, Robshaw, Easter.
Replacements: Gray, Lambert, Collier, Matthews, Guest, Dickson, Botica, Hooper.

If Munster think the way to success is going through that pack, good luck to them as they will need it. There are far more very big, very strong men in that pack then there are in the Munster pack. People like Johnston, Kohn, Robshaw and Easter are about as strong as they come for their position as there are in Europe. People tend to miss that about Quins' pack while heaping praise on their ball skills. That's a power pack and while it may not use its power as aggressively as often as they could, they're not an easy pack to bully. And not for Munster's. If they manage it, I will raise my hat and praise one of the best wins in Europe for some time. If Munster's players and fans believe the way to victory lies through the pack and eight man rugby, then someone needs to sit them down and remind them that Wallace, Leamy, Flanney and Hayes are no longer with them, and that O'Callaghan isn't the player he was. They no longer have the best pack in Europe, no longer near.

However, they can't play any other way with O'Gara at fly-half. The depth at which he stands basically kills off back-play in the womb. And, due to his lack of physicality and athleticism, it's difficult to see him standing any closer. When O'Gara gets caught, penalties start coming, which means his first priority is not getting caught, with disastrous consequences. If Downey gets the ball at the gainline running on to it, he's a useful battering ram. If he gets it five yards stood behind the gain line, he's not going to do it for you.

Quins may be short of form but they've also been short of players. They've pretty much got a full hand back now. On paper, it's going to take the Munster spirit just to avoid this being a turkey shoot.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Teams that are better than Munster at the moment:

Clermont
Toulouse
Toulon
Leicester
Northampton
Saracens
Harlequins
Ulster
Leinster
Ospreys
Glasgow

And that sucks. But it's true.

 

[psychic duck]

Well it all depends on what you class a top side. 1 that consistently finishes in top 4 of their domestic competition like Munster and despite being in transition stayed competitive and is consistent in qualifying in European rugby and that is utter bullshit about pools. Racing and Sarries this year, last year Northampton, year before Ospreys and Toulon so what the hell do you want from them. Are they the best - No but they sure as hell earn their stripes and did they sneak through : NO. They blew game in Paris could've won at Sarries and did what was required of them in end. Quins had an ok Biarritz team and nothing else in that group. Quins are good but who would you consider had tougher group. And I think Munster would've had shot at getting through in groups Leinster or Toulouse had IF they won home games as in let's not forget Leinster scraped home against Exeter at home and could've had Clermont beat in France and in my opinion there would be 3 Irish teams in QF if Leinster had full deck to pick from. But Munster have had them type of groups in past and came out of them so again I'd disagree with you strongly.

@Gavin Stander wasn't registered as we had to put Sheridan in to replace Stringer, Dineen to cover our backs and front row cover for last

I'm not saying they were fortunate in terms of referees calls or anything. Just saying that if they were in Leinster or Toulouse's pool they wouldn't have got trhough, hence why they were lucky to be in a pool with a side who threw their final fixture and a side who acted as a pushover and normally bonus point win in all their matches rather than either of those two pools. The also just sneaked through by second place in the pool, and by more tries than Leinster to reach 8th seed. A shame really, Harlequins vs Leinster would have been much better for the neutral.

Not sure what you're trying to say about previous year's pools. I know they have had tough pools in the past, and also that Quins got basically given top seed and a home quarter final from the moment the draw was made.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Teams that are better than Munster at the moment:

Clermont
Toulouse
Toulon
Leicester
Northampton
Saracens
Harlequins
Ulster
Leinster
Ospreys
Glasgow

And that sucks. But it's true.

Agreed withbthe exception of Northampton.

It'd be a class weekend to be in London if you were a bit of a rich man with Wasps vs Leinster, Sarries vs Ulster and Quins vs Munster. Here's hoping it's Ireland 3-0 London

 

[munstermuffin]

Teams that are better than Munster at the moment:

Clermont
Toulouse
Toulon
Leicester
Northampton
Saracens
Harlequins
Ulster
Leinster
Ospreys
Glasgow

And that sucks. But it's true.

How proof in that now if it was head to head in HEC I'd reckon we'd take Northampton who couldn't do us when we were on ropes and they were on a high. And then in UK Zebo gets hat trick so even a poor Munster team does that.
Ospreys and Glasgow ill just presume your taking **** there.
Sarries and us were very evenly matched if you seem HEC and rest I'd agree but it funny and true but no matter how **** you think Munster are teams are judged in big games etc mainly on achievement and its easy to look fancy against poor teams but chokers like Ospreys are called bluffers

 

[munstermuffin]

I'm not saying they were fortunate in terms of referees calls or anything. Just saying that if they were in Leinster or Toulouse's pool they wouldn't have got trhough, hence why they were lucky to be in a pool with a side who threw their final fixture and a side who acted as a pushover and normally bonus point win in all their matches rather than either of those two pools. The also just sneaked through by second place in the pool, and by more tries than Leinster to reach 8th seed. A shame really, Harlequins vs Leinster would have been much better for the neutral.

Not sure what you're trying to say about previous year's pools. I know they have had tough pools in the past, and also that Quins got basically given top seed and a home quarter final from the moment the draw was made.

Yea but Leinster didn't do it so tough luck. Pools are luck of draw and in 08 Munster were given no hope of getting out of their pool and look how that factored in so who knows if they would or wouldn't have came out of pool. And you say Racing threw last game but nearly every guy that day was playing for a future. Also imagine if Munster didn't loose 1st day in Paris through their own doing and injuries so that argument is good as a duck trying to swim on ice sir.

 

[Feicarsinn]

How proof in that now if it was head to head in HEC I'd reckon we'd take Northampton who couldn't do us when we were on ropes and they were on a high. And then in UK Zebo gets hat trick so even a poor Munster team does that.
Ospreys and Glasgow ill just presume your taking **** there.
Sarries and us were very evenly matched if you seem HEC and rest I'd agree but it funny and true but no matter how **** you think Munster are teams are judged in big games etc mainly on achievement and its easy to look fancy against poor teams but chokers like Ospreys are called bluffers

*Looks at league table. Sees position of Munster, Glasgow and Ospreys. Sighs*

 

[Peat]

I am willing to believe that Munster might be one of the eight best teams in Europe at this moment. Personally, I feel that after the first six or so names that roll off the tongue, there's a lot of arguments to be made for a lot of clubs, so maybe Munster are one of the other two. It's an argument rather besides the point to me.

I do not believe Munster can be called a top team anymore. Their league position is poor; they've lost two big European games in Thomond two years on the trot; they were destroyed by Ospreys in the Pro 12 semi-final last year; they lost to Racing in the group stage - Racing are a good team, but no great shakes, and a top team should be looking to beat them away and home. Any of these alone might be forgivable, maybe any two, poor runs happen, injuries happen, but there are too many things that have happened and that are happening that are not consistent with a top team. Moreover, and perhaps more pertinently, one can simply look at the team sheet and at the squads and say "There are too many areas of weakness and not enough areas of outstanding strength". Admittedly, no team sheet shows Munster's greatest strength, except at the very top - there is still enough belief and big name mentality attached to the name Munster all by itself to make one pause before writing them off entirely in this sort of game. But even factoring them in, there is simply not the stuff of a top team.

Of course, whether they are a top team is slightly besides the point, the question is whether they are a good enough team to beat Harlequins at the Stoop in this match - but it is no kinder a question. To me, this is Quins to win and lose.

edit:

*Looks at league table. Sees position of Munster, Glasgow and Ospreys. Sighs*

Nevermind the league table, I'd suggest 1 draw and 4 losses against Ospreys over the past two seasons - including that league play-off - tells an even more compelling story.

 

[munstermuffin]

*Looks at league table. Sees position of Munster, Glasgow and Ospreys. Sighs*

Does that mean so Munster are better than Leinster as we are in HEC still and Leinster aren't?
Munster said at start of season Rabo is for learning new style and giving younger guys a go so if your point is valid Munster finished above Leinster 2 years ago on table so genius you make a call there

 

[munstermuffin]

Peat we have never lost 2 on the trot in Europe at Thomond Park. We were a team in that Ospreys semi final last year that were clueless with morale at an all time low and in league if you look when we played ospreys in regular rounds we never really had full team and Peat I agree we aren't a top team at moment but I believe there is a bracket of 4/5 teams I'd consider top teams and then the rest are very bunched together but I think Munster are now on a place where they want to be: Been given no hope by nobody

 

[psychic duck]

How proof in that now if it was head to head in HEC I'd reckon we'd take Northampton who couldn't do us when we were on ropes and they were on a high. And then in UK Zebo gets hat trick so even a poor Munster team does that.
Ospreys and Glasgow ill just presume your taking **** there.
Sarries and us were very evenly matched if you seem HEC and rest I'd agree but it funny and true but no matter how **** you think Munster are teams are judged in big games etc mainly on achievement and its easy to look fancy against poor teams but chokers like Ospreys are called bluffers

Really? Ospreys demolished Munster 45-10 last season and hardly "choked" in the final either. There was no clearer indication of who is better at the moment than that. They also easily beat Munster this season again and away last season, and have been the better side throughout the season.

These past 12 months (stop harking back to Munster's previous record), it is clear that Munster have got markedly worse and are not one of the best 8 European sides currently hence why they have fallen to heavy defeats to Glasgow and Treviso. And also lost to poor teams the Scarlets embarrassingly home and away, even the currently awful Cardiff Blues beat them.

I have seen Munster a few times of late, and have been very unimpressed. Whatever gameplan they are trying to play, simply isn't working effectively at the moment and they have some very mediocre players around their squad.

Yea but Leinster didn't do it so tough luck. Pools are luck of draw and in 08 Munster were given no hope of getting out of their pool and look how that factored in so who knows if they would or wouldn't have came out of pool. And you say Racing threw last game but nearly every guy that day was playing for a future. Also imagine if Munster didn't loose 1st day in Paris through their own doing and injuries so that argument is good as a duck trying to swim on ice sir.

Rubbish. In 2008 Munster were at the top of their game, no way did any one give them "no hope of getting out of the pool" back then as they were the best side in Europe at the time.

Racing clearly didn't bother with that last game at Thomond, the fact they played their second XV and had a bad attitude throughout that match was clear and Munster took advantage of their luck that Racing decided to do that. I don't see how the 1st Round is relevant to the fact that Munster had the fortune of Racing throwing that game, and Edinburgh being so abysmal throughout and being an easy win for all teams.