Amlin Cup Semi Final: Munster vs Harlequins

[munstermuffin]

Well will try keep post short and then comment more when emotions settle.

First off fair play Quins and overall they deserved it. I thought Poite was absolutely a disgrace and shouldn't be given big games BUT don't think we deserved it regardless.
Harlequins did the major damage in first half and we just burnt ourselves out defending. Paulie made big impact when itroduced but still we looked clueless and had way too many basic errors.
Wont comment on individual players as now isn't the time but our gameplan was very bad too in some aspects. We have argubally the best kicker in the world for picking corners and nailing teams back but we never used tactic once. We were 1 dimensional and Harlequins read us perfectly

 

[coonor]

Not to mention the faulty Tony M plan of lets run it from the 22 and if that fails then there's no plan B.

Yes but Harlequins made it a faulty plan. They put so much pressure on Munster and that led to the back three having no space. Munster should have kicked at times but their lineout was crap and Harlequins' back three were leathel.

Munster need to learn how to hold a defence. They need to put in more dumby runners and draw the defender before passing. At the moment Munster just ship it wide and any slightly compitent defence can just drift and shove the wingers into touch.

 

[monkeypigeon]

. We have argubally the best kicker in the world for picking corners and nailing teams back but we never used tactic once. We were 1 dimensional and Harlequins read us perfectly

Sums it up nicely. Seemed to be no brains on the pitch.

Think you're being a bit harsh on Poite. I was screaming at him for the whole match, but looking at it, he made the big calls correctly and any mistakes were reasonable. They got away with a bit of holding on and bridging at the ruck. But that's fairly common place these days.

 

[Gavin]

Funny how Munster were accussed of being one dimensional with a forward game, now they have went the other way in trying to run everything. Stupid

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Well will try keep post short and then comment more when emotions settle.

I thought Poite was absolutely a disgrace and shouldn't be given big games BUT don't think we deserved it regardless.

Only saw last half an hour, but purely in terms of the forward pass calls, they seemed correct man. Howleet had to dive a metre forwards to catch the patch for the first, and in the second case he was stood a foot and a half in front of POC after timing his run a bit too early.

Otherwise, its about time the England set up stopped ignoring Harlequins players. Robshaw, Guest etc. Marler was great and definitely one for the (not too distant) future

 

[munstermuffin]

I'm not slating Poite for decisions against us as I haven't watched the video to say if it was/wasn't but he only watched 1 team and let Quins away with many offenses.
Now don't take me up wrong Quins deserved win and can't argue that but Gavin I'm not arguing about us being expansive but when we saw that wasn't moving today we shouldve changed gameplan and went tight and kicked corners.
Also Warwick at 12 shot us completely as he was awful but can't slate management for that as it was a decision worth trying

 

[coonor]

I don't like Poite but I respect him for not letting the Munster crowd influence his desicions. I understand that he made some mistakes but but it was a difficult game to refferee.

 

[munstermuffin]

I don't like Poite but I respect him for not letting the Munster crowd influence his desicions. I understand that he made some mistakes but but it was a difficult game to refferee.

This I disagree with. Scrums were fine and both teams were willing to play rugby. I've no issue if game was reffereed fairly and both teams were observed but Poite did not do that.
My examples are and watch this on replays because I seen it in flesh at the breakdown he never once looked behind him to see what the Quins line was like and many times they were stepping up offside. We got pinged for it because he watched us.

In second half a player came through and hit Murray before he put hands on ball, Murray kept his feet and regathered before playing ball but no advantage even despite Poite watching this.

There was players coming in from side blatantly and again he was awful observing, and a few dodgy crossing penalties but that was fair enough because I can't blame a ref on crossing calls as they were marginal either way.

As in I haven't got offical stats but what was penalty count and remember we got 5/6 pens in last 5 mins.

Again may I also add fair play to Quins ye did deserve the win and hope ye go on and win it out now

 

[monkeypigeon]

This I disagree with. Scrums were fine and both teams were willing to play rugby. I've no issue if game was reffereed fairly and both teams were observed but Poite did not do that.
My examples are and watch this on replays because I seen it in flesh at the breakdown he never once looked behind him to see what the Quins line was like and many times they were stepping up offside. We got pinged for it because he watched us.

That one did bug me actually. But I ask what were the touch judges doing? Turner Hall and Lowe were also excellent excellent in offence but it's also alot easier to defend when you're three feet offside effectively all the time.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Touch judges are now told to watch the offside line.

 

[monkeypigeon]

Touch judges are now told to watch the offside line.

I shall take your word for it.

They should though, it seems something quite obvious to delegate seeing as they're usually staring directly across the line.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I shall take your word for it.

They should though, it seems something quite obvious to delegate seeing as they're usually staring directly across the line.

Well it may not be official but was listening to someone talk to Nigel Owens about it and he said that touch judges are meant to watch it so the ref can watch whats happening on the floor.

 

[munstermuffin]

Well even so for alot of the calls again if you rewatch match (as I have just done) the positioning of the ref was awful too at the breakdown.

And look I don't want it to sound like sour grapes or bad looser because fact is Quins deserved it and I not using the ref as an excuse.
Simply putting it there for future reference because this fella is going to the World Cup and could really hurt teams over there in New Zealand.

 

[profitius]

This I disagree with. Scrums were fine and both teams were willing to play rugby. I've no issue if game was reffereed fairly and both teams were observed but Poite did not do that.
My examples are and watch this on replays because I seen it in flesh at the breakdown he never once looked behind him to see what the Quins line was like and many times they were stepping up offside. We got pinged for it because he watched us.

In second half a player came through and hit Murray before he put hands on ball, Murray kept his feet and regathered before playing ball but no advantage even despite Poite watching this.

There was players coming in from side blatantly and again he was awful observing, and a few dodgy crossing penalties but that was fair enough because I can't blame a ref on crossing calls as they were marginal either way.

As in I haven't got offical stats but what was penalty count and remember we got 5/6 pens in last 5 mins.

Again may I also add fair play to Quins ye did deserve the win and hope ye go on and win it out now

100% correct MM. One side could do anything and the other nothing. There was also errors against Munster and one leading up to the try. Poite has reffed Munster out of a few games now and almost cost Ireland in Italy. Did somebody do something to upset him?

I'm glad that Quins won though because Munster didn't deserve to and a win would have only papered over the cracks again. Now they have to take a good long look at themselves. They won't win the ML either. Theres a good big squad there that has gotten them top of the ML table but they don't have the 15 for cup rugby anymore. Time for a revolution in Munster.

Some players need to retire, some need to leave and others need to be promoted.

 

[monkeypigeon]

100% correct MM. One side could do anything and the other nothing. There was also errors against Munster and one leading up to the try. Poite has reffed Munster out of a few games now and almost cost Ireland in Italy. Did somebody do something to upset him?

I'm glad that Quins won though because Munster didn't deserve to and a win would have only papered over the cracks again. Now they have to take a good long look at themselves. They won't win the ML either. Theres a good big squad there that has gotten them top of the ML table but they don't have the 15 for cup rugby anymore. Time for a revolution in Munster.

Some players need to retire, some need to leave and others need to be promoted.

How about popping over to the Munster thread and suggesting what player you think need to be retired, let go and promoted.

 

[munstermuffin]

Profitius I agree with parts and disagree with other parts. We don't have a complete 15 but do have a team that is competitive in Cup rugby and we won ML League section by using a full squad BUT our problem is some guys were left off again despite been on form.
We have to tell the IRFU to take a hike and pick for good of Munster not Ireland firstly, recruit with a bit of brains and reward form.

After having a sleep and thinking over the game, I'll start by saying I agree Quins deserved it more and simply we played the first 40mins in heat defending in our own 22 and well that was energy sapping. But fair play to Quins they came with a plan and stuck to it and won. I said Poite was a disgrace and well Quins may have been offside at times but they got away with it and like any good team used the advantage but they still deserved the win regardless.

On to Munster squad I'll try be patient with this and get my point across easily. In ML recently and in past few months we have won some hard physical games with young squad players.
Zebo, Nagle, Archer, Murray, Jones, O'Mahony, Sherry and Earls are part of that list. Now some played yesterday but well we didn't seem to reward the younger guys form and put trust in them for Europe which is a bit disappointing. (Also I accept some weren't registered for yesterday)

Yesterday:
Wian Du Preez - Just didn't seem to be interested and while a lovely guy and good player just doesn't seem to have worked out for him here
Varley - Is a good player and hit peak form between May 10 and Dec 10 but seems to have came down a peg and we may regret not chasing Cronin as a starter because Fla seems crocked
Buckley - Is Sales problem from next season and well overall this will be a good deal as it frees up decent salary space.
DOC - A good player but I feel maybe next season a stint coming off the bench will be best as he can be good impact player and we need to freshen up team
Micko - Will just be a squad player next year as I feel its at stage others are ready to come in
Leamy - Was very good yesterday but I'll still expect him to lift game to a new level
Wallace - A legend of game but is getting old and can still be a gem but we have to minimize his milage
Coughlan - Has had an excellent season and if he can keep growing in confidence then he has skill to be an 8 at this level.
Murray - A mixed game yesterday but was surprised he was taken off as early as he was but is for future.
ROG - A hero and well great heart but like Ireland did we have to develop a 10 or else when he goes we will be screwed, Keatley will get fair chance.
Earls - A player who is best in back 3
Warwick - On the way out, Was awful yesterday but is a good player just not a centre
Mafi - A good player but just forces things at times and his decision-making is poor.
Howlett - A class act who I think we can still get a year or two out of
Jones - I thought he tried heart out yesterday and will be a future international with bit more experience in these big games.

But Monkey asked who should stay or go well here my views from seen the players alot.
To go: Borlaise, Buckley, Fogarty, Dave Ryan, Mafi, Warwick, Tuitupou, N. Ronan, Murphy and maybe Tom Gleeson
To retire: Hayes, Quinlan (who would've been useful yesterday) and possibly Horan
To be demoted to squad/off bench players: Donnacha O'Callaghan, Wallace and maybe O'Gara
To be used more in big games: Nagle, O'Donnell, Zebo, Sherry and O'Mahony
Players in/coming into academy that should get more chances to show their stuff: D. Foley, Archer, Hurley, P. Butler, A. Cotter, JJ Hanrahan, D. Kilcoyne, S. Henry, G. Quinn-McDonagh, G. Slattery (if brought in to academy), L. Og Murphy (coming in to academy and could go World Cup with USA)
Players to keep just as cover for World Cup: Deasy, Williams and Micko

Hope that makes some sense but that my views

And also on my comments regarding recruitment we have to start been smart for instance like Leinster their NIQ is Strauss and Diack (Ulster). Both are contributing to 1st XV we need some return similar.

 

[profitius]

How about popping over to the Munster thread and suggesting what player you think need to be retired, let go and promoted.

Yes I'll do it there. Was going to reply here but might as well keep it in the Munster thread.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Thank you to Munster for making me lose all by vCash ... <_<

 

[psychic duck]

thank you to munster for making me lose all by vcash ... <_<

lol!