GOAT - The eternal debate

[Bada-Bing!]

Luke Littler beats Rob Cross to reach World Darts Championship final

Teenager Luke Littler beats 2018 champion Rob Cross to storm into the final of PDC World Darts Championship.

www.bbc.co.uk

16 who looks 30 with a belly to match. But reaches the final on his debut. Is Darts a sport?

 

[Which Tyler]

Is Darts a sport?

From the OP

For the purposes of this, sport can be defined as "game or activity where any improvement in skill/technique will improve performance, and any improvement in physical strength/fitness will improve performance"

So snooker, cards, darts etc are not affected by fitness

Of course, it's a fantastic acheivement

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Watched a full game of darts for the full time yesterday and even knowing nothing you could see the kid was a level above his former world champion opponent. Pretty cool and great achievement.

Big challenge for his support group to not let media get to him. A darts player isn't exactly going to attract media who even care to pretend that they have his best interests as a concern.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

From the OP

For the purposes of this, sport can be defined as "game or activity where any improvement in skill/technique will improve performance, and any improvement in physical strength/fitness will improve performance"

So snooker, cards, darts etc are not affected by fitness. But still not considered on par with proper sports also requiring fitness like football, rugby, tennis.

Of course, it's a fantastic achievement.

FIFY.

 

[Which Tyler]

So snooker, cards, darts etc are not affected by fitness. And thus not considered a sport at all.

Fixed your fix
The key is in the second part of (my imposed) definition of sport "any improvement in physical strength/fitness will improve performance"

 

[Saintjay]

Or as a friend said if you don't need specialist footwear or to change your shoes it's not really a sport. Clearly there are some exceptions.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Good final so far. All the pressure on Humphries being world no.1. But nerveless so far from the 16yo.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, really enjoying this - first full game I've ever watched, I think

 

[Bada-Bing!]

He was one double away from going 5-2 up, but Humphries showed why he's no.1 by reeling off 5 sets in a row. Amazing performance from both. But probably a good thing Littler didn't win this so young. He's gonna have many more opportunities to win.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Fixed your fix
The key is in the second part of (my imposed) definition of sport "any improvement in physical strength/fitness will improve performance"

Over the years, plenty of snooker players have attributed an upturn in form to getting fitter, most notably Ronnie. I don't follow darts very closely these days, but I suspect that it's no coincidence that Humphries' upturn in form has coincided with him getting into much better shape than he was a year or two ago.

How many Olympic events would you consider not to be sports by this definition?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'd have snooker and darts strictly in the games category. Any able bodied person can throw a dart at a board or hit a billiard ball with a cue, it's only precision that separates the pros from an amateur.

Golf is where I draw the line, it's the least sporty sport to me. Ignoring precision if you hand a person who has never swung a golf club before I'd say (being quite generous) less than 3% of people would be able to get clubhead speed of 110mph which is the minimum you'll get on tour. It's rare you see an amateur of any handicap have those numbers and those that do have generally played other sports that require a lot more athleticism and any pro with higher swing speeds has a noted advantage against others. Conditioning also makes a difference even at pro level, match play events are generally won by physically fitter players and it's rare one of the fat guys plays 36 holes in the Ryder / President's cup. To be honest I think with the rollback you'll see golf go the way of baseball where fitness and strength has really become a requirement, equipment won't overpower courses for less athletic guys anymore.

I think the improvements you'd get in darts and snooker from being in better shape are about as significant as the improvements you get in your job by doing the same. It definitely makes a difference but it's just general health benefits rather than increased athleticism being an advantage.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Over the years, plenty of snooker players have attributed an upturn in form to getting fitter, most notably Ronnie. I don't follow darts very closely these days, but I suspect that it's no coincidence that Humphries' upturn in form has coincided with him getting into much better shape than he was a year or two ago.

How many Olympic events would you consider not to be sports by this definition?

Anything that involves sitting on a horse. The skill required is high and all with the rider but physically wise the bar's pretty low - hard training's not going to make too much odds although weight control is a consideration in some events. Different for the horse, obviously.

As far as Littler goes it was a mildly interesting diversion. Whether he's the new Phil Taylor or it was just a glorious unexplained one off remains to be seen. Plenty of teenage prodigies, if that's what he is, have gone on to achieve precisely nothing in the senior ranks in a variety of sports. Whether it's healthy for a kid to have received the attention he has is another matter.

But a 16 year old who's never won anything in what may or may not be a sport does feel a pretty odd tangent for a GOAT thread.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

But a 16 year old who's never won anything in what may or may not be a sport does feel a pretty odd tangent for a GOAT thread.

Luke Littler: Pele, Emma Raducanu, Sachin Tendulkar and other sporting teenage sensations

With 16-year-old Luke Littler reaching the PDC World Darts Championship final, BBC Sport looks at some other teenage sporting sensations.

www.bbc.co.uk

True, but didn't want to start a thread just for darts. Still, I saw glimpses of potential Goteness when he was behind at the beginning and his reaction after he lost. I think the main thing is to keep that passion and practice. Not like in other "sports" where injury is going to be an issue. He still has a lot of time on his side and to get the experience of a world final at 16 can only hold him in good stead if he continues to develop.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

The best baseball player ever is in a crazy story.
MLB launches investigation into Ohtani, ex-interpreter following theft allegations
https://www.reuters.com/sports/base...ni-ex-interpreter-following-theft-2024-03-22/

Shohei Ohtani to address theft allegations against interpreter on Monday
https://www.reuters.com/sports/base...ations-against-interpreter-monday-2024-03-24/

Ohtani says interpreter stole money, denies knowledge of gambling debts
https://www.reuters.com/sports/base...ndal-involving-former-interpreter-2024-03-25/

 

[Saintjay]

The best baseball player ever is in a crazy story.
MLB launches investigation into Ohtani, ex-interpreter following theft allegations
https://www.reuters.com/sports/base...ni-ex-interpreter-following-theft-2024-03-22/

Shohei Ohtani to address theft allegations against interpreter on Monday
https://www.reuters.com/sports/base...ations-against-interpreter-monday-2024-03-24/

Ohtani says interpreter stole money, denies knowledge of gambling debts
https://www.reuters.com/sports/base...ndal-involving-former-interpreter-2024-03-25/

Baseball is mad some of the so called greats all tainted by doping allegations Barry Bonds etc. The amount juicing between 2000 - 2012 was off the scale.

 

[Welsh Exile]

American sports should be banned from this thread as it's impossible to have a GOAT in any of those inferior rip off American versions.

In fact it would be good just to ban them in general.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

World's Strongest Man Tom Stoltman on his future

Tom Stoltman believes he is "up there with some of the greats" after he became the first Briton to win three World’s Strongest Man ***les.

www.bbc.co.uk

Aiming to be the GOAT.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

If he doesn't retire young (and it doesn't look to be on the cards) he'll **** it - only 29, still got so many years ahead of him, it's a younger man's game these days but think Shaw won his last one at 35? 36?
Could see Tom breaking the WSM record and getting 6+ ***les easy

 

[Saintjay]

American sports should be banned from this thread as it's impossible to have a GOAT in any of those inferior rip off American versions.

In fact it would be good just to ban them in general.

Thank the lord Wayne Gretzky is a Canadian Goat.

 

[RedruthRFC]

World's Strongest Man Tom Stoltman on his future

Tom Stoltman believes he is "up there with some of the greats" after he became the first Briton to win three World’s Strongest Man ***les.

www.bbc.co.uk

Aiming to be the GOAT.

The points gap in the final between the top two and third spot seems to confirm my gut feeling that it's a two-horse race between Stoltman and Hooper at the moment. While the organisers' obsession with Atlas stones continues and while Tom's static strength continues improving, you've got to think that he's got a great shot at winning another three ***les. If he does, I'd have no problem calling him the GOAT WSM competitor, but he needs a lot more acolades before I would consider him the GOAT strongman competitor. It's mad to think that a 3 WSM winner has only won 4 international competitions at 28 attempts. Compared to Big Z's 82 wins in 150 international competitions, he has a long way to go IMO. For him to be in the GOAT conversation, I would looks for a few Arnold's / WUS / Shaw Classic / Rogue / Europe's wins on his CV.