Get your bets in for the All Black Squad for the june tests

[Larksea]

Lots of interest in this squad.

many key WC players wont be there and others have had scratchy form.

And importantly some new faces and former All Blacks in blistering form putting good cases forward.

New Head coach and a totally new selection panel including Ian Foster, Grant Fox and Aussie McLean

With so many changes in the NZ setup Ireland will smell blood and see a real chance to get a win. Yet at the same time Hansen & Foster will be doing everything they can to get their time underway as best they can by putting away the plucky Irish.

Still a while off but this would be my list in pencil

Props: Franks X2, Woodcock, Charlie Faumuina - I actually have no idea who the 4th prop would be yet, Charlie has impressed me, Crockett is good but he's no tight head, Ben May I think is on the radar, in fact when the canes scrum was being destroyed by the blues May moved to tight head and they got parity all of a sudden, I think when that happened Ben May shot right into contention because Woody has been destroying tightheads everywhere since he returned. I thought this would be Toby Smiths year but he's been injured.

Hooker: Hore, Mealamu, Elliot

Locks: Whitelock, Retalick, Donnelly, Williams - With Thorn gone and Boric Injured there are big openings here, surely room for Retalick or Craig Clarke.

Loose Forwards: McCaw, Read, Vito, Thomson, Messam - there is a real chance one of the latter 3 will miss out for the inclusion of Matt Todd or Sam Cane.

Halfbacks: Elis, Aaron Smith, Weepu - Smith is about as sure a new cap as you can get.

10: Carter, Cruden

Midfield: Nonu, Smith, SBW, Kahui - Pretty clear cut, Kahui to even start at 11 when not needed in midfield.

outside backs: Dagg, Jane, Gear

Utility: Ben Smith - I really have no idea for the last spot - really depends on goals the coaches have, I'd look to develop someone new looking to 2015 from Barrett, Savea, Robbie Robinson or Tom/Andre Taylor or if your looking for a solid experienced guy maybe Tamati Ellison??? Or do they look to use kahui as a winger and Bring in Robbie Fruen? personally I still dont think Frien's defense is up to test rugby standard yet.

not Considered (injury): Kaino, Toeava, Boric, Leonard, Toby Smith, Ben Afeki, Slade (have I missed any?)

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

28 Man Squad
Hooker - Hore, Mealamu, Elliot
Prop - Woodcock, Franks, Franks, Faumuina
Lock - Williams, Whitelock, Hoeata/Retalick, Donnely
Loose Forward - McCaw, Read, Thomson, Messam/Cane, Vito
Halfback - Smith, Ellis
First Five - Carter, Cruden
Centre - Smith, Nonu, Williams, Kahui
Outside Back - Dagg, Jane, Smith, Gear

 

[donmcdazzle]

Do you guys mean Ali Williams? You can't be serious? He has been awful and wasn't even good for the ABs last year. Stick a fork in him cause he is done.

 

[Tadginator]

I'd have guildford in there. He's been very impressive in the last few games.I'd bring robbie Robinson as well to give him a run. Jane hasnt been impressive and he's old enough now. I would bring in some younger players. There's plenty of talent out there.

 

[Jayatron]

Is it true that the All Blacks are playing an NRL team in hybrid rules?

"An experimental game, between schools teams, has already been played in Australia and the country is set to host a contest between an NRL team and the All Blacks later this year."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/17817597

 

[Larksea]

I dont believe he's doing that bad and his experience will be important with Thorn and Boric out of the picture - at a guess I'd say he's got more test caps than any three other available NZ locks combined, he's been there/done that and that's important.

To me he looks fit and hungry, I don't buy all the bad press he's getting.

 

[Larksea]

I'd have guildford in there. He's been very impressive in the last few games.I'd bring robbie Robinson as well to give him a run. Jane hasnt been impressive and he's old enough now. I would bring in some younger players. There's plenty of talent out there.

yeah Zac's looking good, though so is Hosea Gear and honestly I cant see Jane being dropped to accommodate Guildford, going to be a close call. Though part of me thinks that looking toward 2015 Gear may be a bit long in the tooth, most wingers seem to peak young and drop off after 25-26 and I've never been sold on Gear as a true test quality winger he's been quiet in pretty much all the big games he's had and only looked sharp on that northern tour - not in tri nations rugby which is the benchmark.

But at the same time the balance of the squad looks a bit better with Gear included, his size and power add another dimension to the attack, a different kind of threat to the other wing options.

 

[Larksea]

I still don't like Elis, I know he's good but I don't think he's good for the All Blacks, I go back to the hurricanes game and he did a lot of good stuff the darting runs and the quality kicking, but then Willi Heinz game on and though he didn't look as good as an individual all of a sudden the rest of the back line came into the game because the quality of the ball they were getting sky rocketed all of a sudden. All Blacks have the best backline around but if the halfback uses the ball himself and wastes the quick ball then what's the point - may as well play 9-10 man rugby.

 

[Larksea]

interesting interview

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/6798588/Blues-form-struggles-no-concern-to-Hansen

what I got from it:

Nonu, Williams and Weepu will make the squad

Aaron Smith and Retalick as well

it wont be a small squad of 26-28, it will be a squad of 30-32 so they can include some younger players as future prospects and also have the seasoned Vets in the squad to set the standard - good move.

I totally agree that hooker is a major problem looking to the future, Our two main hookers are staring down the barrel at 35 and one other main hooker is the same (Jason Rutledge) options outside them are limited. with 5 super teams that only gives you 5 options for 3 spots and one of NZ's main hookers is the Samoan captian so he's not an option. It makes the position very sticky for the selectors and hard for young blood to break into the top level. Really it boils down to Elliot or Coles? not much of a choice really considering the depth and options there are in other positions.

Personally I think hika Elliot is under rated, I think he clearly is a better lineout thrower than even Hore & Mealamu looked good one tour with the AB's a couple of years ago and I think it was a mistake not to have him in the world cup squad.

 

[austingtir]

Williams should deff be gone they need to develop some new locks while the rest of the team is still strong.

I would also drop dagg, gear, weepu and the franks brothers. I dont think they have performed at all this year. More as a wake up call than anything bring them back after the ireland games or tour north. Honestly Ben Smith was an absolute stand out until he got injured he deserves another chance.

Kahui is to good not to be there so he should be at 11 again.

Obviously if Dagg plays like last weekend or better he'll be there.... he'll be there either way but they should atleast start Ben Smith ahead of him on current form imo.

 

[nickdnz]

If we're picking our teams of 30 players, I'd go with.

Props: Wyatt Crockett, Tony Woodcock, Owen Franks, Ben Franks (Crockett and Woodcock have been the stand out props for NZ this season while Owen Franks has been pretty good, and Ben Franks can cover both sides of the scrum for the bench. A part of me would also not mind giving Tameifuna a cap, just to make sure he's only NZ eligable, but that's the selfish part of me. He's probably a bit young to give a cap to).
Hookers: Kevin Mealamu, Andrew Hore, Hika Elliot (I agree it's looking a little thin at hooker. Best to give either Elliot or Coles more game time before it looks very desperate in a few seasons).
Locks: Brodie Retallick, Josh Bekhuis, Sam Whitelock, Donnelly (Ali Williams can **** right off. He's useless, the Blues have had a shocking lineout all season and he stands on the wing instead of hits the rucks. Very bad. Having a lot of caps doesn't justify playing like crap since coming back from injury).
Looseforwards: Victor Vito, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw, Matt Todd, Liam Messam (Victor Vito deserves it because he's playing like a machine and most importantly, filling the role in which Kaino played. Thomson is a little bit too loose for me, looks good because he makes a lot of carries and is often on the wing, but doesn't do the graft like I like my looseforwards to. Messam has earned a call back in my mind and Matt Todd is probably the second best openside and McCaw won't keep playing forever. Either that or Sam Cane for bolter).
Halfbacks: Andy Ellis, Aaron Smith, Alby Mathewson (Usually I really like Weepu, but if you get yourself unfit and play terribly in Super Rugby because of fitness, which is something that's very avoidable, than you don't deserve to play for the All Blacks. I'd give him the Ireland tests off to get fit. Not a big fan of Ellis, but on form and experience I guess you can't go past him. Cowan is looking average. I think Mathewson has been one of the few good players for the Blues with great runs and fast delivery while Aaron Smith has probably been one of the finds of the season)
Flyhalfs: Daniel Carter, Aaron Cruden, Beuden Barrett (Still prefer Barrett to Taylor, even after saturdays game)
Centres: Conrad Smith, Richard Kahui, Sonny Bill Williams, Ma'a Nonu (Pretty much pick themselves, though Tim Baitman has been classy as has Tamati Ellison)
Wingers: Cory Jane, Sean Maitland (Hurts to leave out Gear, especially after starting to look back to his best, leading the competition in running metres and linebreaks, but he's getting on quite a bit now. I'd be happy to see him in there mind. Also wouldn't mind seeing big Julian Savea get a game just to see if he is lookin' ready, but may see how he's going towards the end of the season. Maitland has all the best attributes in my mind. 100kg+, Fastest player in NZ, Rocket Boot, Catches the high ball. Guildford has been good in the last few games, but still not sold on him. Cory Jane just deserves to be there as a safe, brilliant player)
Fullbacks: Andre Taylor, Israel Dagg (Israel Dagg and Andre Taylor played off in the last game, and both looked very classy. Dagg has always been good for the All Blacks and I don't think he's been as bad as some people have been making out, while Taylor is the form fullback of the competition and is scoring amazing tries at will)

 

[Aedaphon]

If we're picking our teams of 30 players, I'd go with.

Props: Wyatt Crockett, Tony Woodcock, Owen Franks, Ben Franks (Crockett and Woodcock have been the stand out props for NZ this season while Owen Franks has been pretty good, and Ben Franks can cover both sides of the scrum for the bench. A part of me would also not mind giving Tameifuna a cap, just to make sure he's only NZ eligable, but that's the selfish part of me. He's probably a bit young to give a cap to).
Hookers: Kevin Mealamu, Andrew Hore, Hika Elliot (I agree it's looking a little thin at hooker. Best to give either Elliot or Coles more game time before it looks very desperate in a few seasons).
Locks: Brodie Retallick, Josh Bekhuis, Sam Whitelock, Donnelly (Ali Williams can **** right off. He's useless, the Blues have had a shocking lineout all season and he stands on the wing instead of hits the rucks. Very bad. Having a lot of caps doesn't justify playing like crap since coming back from injury).
Looseforwards: Victor Vito, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw, Matt Todd, Liam Messam (Victor Vito deserves it because he's playing like a machine and most importantly, filling the role in which Kaino played. Thomson is a little bit too loose for me, looks good because he makes a lot of carries and is often on the wing, but doesn't do the graft like I like my looseforwards to. Messam has earned a call back in my mind and Matt Todd is probably the second best openside and McCaw won't keep playing forever. Either that or Sam Cane for bolter).
Halfbacks: Andy Ellis, Aaron Smith, Alby Mathewson (Usually I really like Weepu, but if you get yourself unfit and play terribly in Super Rugby because of fitness, which is something that's very avoidable, than you don't deserve to play for the All Blacks. I'd give him the Ireland tests off to get fit. Not a big fan of Ellis, but on form and experience I guess you can't go past him. Cowan is looking average. I think Mathewson has been one of the few good players for the Blues with great runs and fast delivery while Aaron Smith has probably been one of the finds of the season)
Flyhalfs: Daniel Carter, Aaron Cruden, Beuden Barrett (Still prefer Barrett to Taylor, even after saturdays game)
Centres: Conrad Smith, Richard Kahui, Sonny Bill Williams, Ma'a Nonu (Pretty much pick themselves, though Tim Baitman has been classy as has Tamati Ellison)
Wingers: Cory Jane, Sean Maitland (Hurts to leave out Gear, especially after starting to look back to his best, leading the competition in running metres and linebreaks, but he's getting on quite a bit now. I'd be happy to see him in there mind. Also wouldn't mind seeing big Julian Savea get a game just to see if he is lookin' ready, but may see how he's going towards the end of the season. Maitland has all the best attributes in my mind. 100kg+, Fastest player in NZ, Rocket Boot, Catches the high ball. Guildford has been good in the last few games, but still not sold on him. Cory Jane just deserves to be there as a safe, brilliant player)
Fullbacks: Andre Taylor, Israel Dagg (Israel Dagg and Andre Taylor played off in the last game, and both looked very classy. Dagg has always been good for the All Blacks and I don't think he's been as bad as some people have been making out, while Taylor is the form fullback of the competition and is scoring amazing tries at will)

Definitely agree with your picks there- going on Super XV form, Barrett, Taylor, Maitland and Vito all deserve caps. It's painful to see how many bright options NZ has in the backs when the forwards are looking so thin.

Messam and Vito have been looking good at 6 but unless they can bring their absolute A-game they're not gonna fill in the whole Kaino's left. And the problem only gets worse when you look at Thorn's departure.

 

[Larksea]

for a long time now the makeup of the ABs squad as far as props go has been one loose head specialist, one Tight head specialist and two players who can play either side.

If they stick to that then it would mean that the spot open is for a player who can prop either side, kinda makes it tough on MacIntosh and Crockett - there may not be room for them.

Options who can play either side? Charlie Faumuina, Ben May and Toby Smith who's unfortunately been out injured all season. Not sure of any other options.

Also another option at lock would be Jason Eaton, he's been good this season. I' a little wary of hurricanes forwards though, the canes have been operating on well below 50% ball this season hard to pin that to individual players but it would make me shy of picking Hurricanes forwards.

 

[admartian]

If we're picking our teams of 30 players, I'd go with.

Props: Wyatt Crockett, Tony Woodcock, Owen Franks, Ben Franks (Crockett and Woodcock have been the stand out props for NZ this season while Owen Franks has been pretty good, and Ben Franks can cover both sides of the scrum for the bench. A part of me would also not mind giving Tameifuna a cap, just to make sure he's only NZ eligable, but that's the selfish part of me. He's probably a bit young to give a cap to).
Hookers: Kevin Mealamu, Andrew Hore, Hika Elliot (I agree it's looking a little thin at hooker. Best to give either Elliot or Coles more game time before it looks very desperate in a few seasons).
Locks: Brodie Retallick, Josh Bekhuis, Sam Whitelock, Donnelly (Ali Williams can **** right off. He's useless, the Blues have had a shocking lineout all season and he stands on the wing instead of hits the rucks. Very bad. Having a lot of caps doesn't justify playing like crap since coming back from injury).
Looseforwards: Victor Vito, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw, Matt Todd, Liam Messam (Victor Vito deserves it because he's playing like a machine and most importantly, filling the role in which Kaino played. Thomson is a little bit too loose for me, looks good because he makes a lot of carries and is often on the wing, but doesn't do the graft like I like my looseforwards to. Messam has earned a call back in my mind and Matt Todd is probably the second best openside and McCaw won't keep playing forever. Either that or Sam Cane for bolter).
Halfbacks: Andy Ellis, Aaron Smith, Alby Mathewson (Usually I really like Weepu, but if you get yourself unfit and play terribly in Super Rugby because of fitness, which is something that's very avoidable, than you don't deserve to play for the All Blacks. I'd give him the Ireland tests off to get fit. Not a big fan of Ellis, but on form and experience I guess you can't go past him. Cowan is looking average. I think Mathewson has been one of the few good players for the Blues with great runs and fast delivery while Aaron Smith has probably been one of the finds of the season)
Flyhalfs: Daniel Carter, Aaron Cruden, Beuden Barrett (Still prefer Barrett to Taylor, even after saturdays game)
Centres: Conrad Smith, Richard Kahui, Sonny Bill Williams, Ma'a Nonu (Pretty much pick themselves, though Tim Baitman has been classy as has Tamati Ellison)
Wingers: Cory Jane, Sean Maitland (Hurts to leave out Gear, especially after starting to look back to his best, leading the competition in running metres and linebreaks, but he's getting on quite a bit now. I'd be happy to see him in there mind. Also wouldn't mind seeing big Julian Savea get a game just to see if he is lookin' ready, but may see how he's going towards the end of the season. Maitland has all the best attributes in my mind. 100kg+, Fastest player in NZ, Rocket Boot, Catches the high ball. Guildford has been good in the last few games, but still not sold on him. Cory Jane just deserves to be there as a safe, brilliant player)
Fullbacks: Andre Taylor, Israel Dagg (Israel Dagg and Andre Taylor played off in the last game, and both looked very classy. Dagg has always been good for the All Blacks and I don't think he's been as bad as some people have been making out, while Taylor is the form fullback of the competition and is scoring amazing tries at will)

I like that squad.

The only change I'd make is Freuean for SBW (I don't think it's fair to pick a player who is deliberately being non-commital over someone that can potentially play for NZ minus the headache that SBW brings).

Otherwise good squad with a good mix of new talent and core form players.

I wouldn't be hurt not to see Nonu there though, as he has been a bit off this season.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

So the first squad won't be named until the 3rd of June, six days prior to the first test.

Ireland: 30 players
Rugby C: 28 players
North Tour: 32 players

This'll be very interesting... Guess there'll be two of each position, less a loosie and an outside back, probably.

 

[Draggs]

Think it would be tough to leave out Ben Smith. He looked good before injury, we'll see how well he has returned soon enough.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Yep, providing he's fit and fine now.

Rejigged (this is what I think will be picked, not what I want):

Hooker - Hore, Mealamu, Elliot
Prop - Franks, Franks, Faumuina, Woodcock
Lock - Williams, Whitelock, Retalick, Donnelly
Loose Forward - McCaw, Read, Thomson, Vito, Messam, Todd/Cane
Halfback - Ellis, Weepu, Smith
First Five - Carter, Cruden
Centre - Smith, Nonu, Kahui, Williams
Outside Back - Jane, Smith, Dagg, Gear/Other

 

[donmcdazzle]

I wouldn't mind having tamati Ellison in there rather than SBW, thats based on form this season and that Ellison is much more versatile. Hope williams and weepu get left out they've been rubbish.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

SBW would still be in over Nonu on form though

I think with Kahui, Carter, B Smith, Jane and Dagg you probably have enough versatility. Not that versatility isn't a great attribute, but I don't think we should look at it as a deciding factor now...

 

[Melhor Time]

Little to change from the World Cup winning team. The changes will kick on after 2012. Could have issues in some positions though.. hooker and secondrow.

15 Dagg
14 Jane
13 Smith
12 Sonny Bill
11 Kahui
10 Carter
9 Ellis
8 Read
7 McCaw
6 Vito
5 Whitelock
4 Donnelly
3 Franks
2 Mealamu
1 Woodcock

And please call back Donald as he is utter crap for Bath.