Get your bets in for the All Black Squad for the june tests

[Larksea]

aparently the squad will only have two halfbacks... so either Aaron smith will be hard done but or Weepu will be dropped!?

Squad will be 30 players.

 

[nickdnz]

it is tall poppy, because even though yes those players are great they were conservative in their carriers and as good as they are they are still all part of the group of many, SBW stands out (like a tall poppy) in or aside that group because he wants more from his carrier and he's not afraid to say it, he wants to achieve in more than one sport... three in fact - and people resent that and cut him down.

man read your last paragraph again, it's tall poppy. It's not sonny bills fault the media give him so much attention. But face it, he's one of the best players in the world, he's got one one of the best physiques in world sport, the girls (and some guys) love him.

You don't honestly expect the media to give him the same attention as someone like Andrew Hore or Woodcock do you?

me? I don't have his poster on my wall and I don't get his fights on pay per view, I don't read the news articles every time he gets a new girlfriend or a haircut. I don't follow him on twitter. I'm fine with the fact he's not signed for next season heck he's not the only one, there is just more speculation around where he's going because of who he is. Nonu's off contract and will be fielding contract offers from all over the world as well. I just tune in every week and watch the chiefs play and he's clearly brilliant in that side and has a massive influence.

One of the main reasons I really like SBW as a player over Nonu. Watch footage of Nonu playing he does this all the time and I'm talking a LOT of the time. Nonu will make a tackle then he gets up slowley, sometimes walks around or just stands on the spot shouts points and eventually ambles back into the defensive line, even in big games he does this. When SBW makes a tackle he gets up like a flash and sprints back into the defense so fast it's not uncommon for him to make 2 or three tackles in as many phases on defense. and he does it almost every single time! The guy is as good as he is because he works his fricken arse off on and off the field. And I really respect that.

Heck I often wonder how good Nonu or Weepu would be if they worked as hard on and off the field as SBW does. heck I think they would both have close to 100 caps and be seen as players on the same level as McCaw and Carter. And we would probably have won the last two world cups. And the hurricanes would have won some super ***les. I say that and I honestly dont think it's an exaggeration. Nonu and Weepu are clearly two of the most talented players NZ rugby has ever seen but they both will ultimately go down as players who failed to reach their potential - it' been good to see Nonu pull his head out over the last few years to some extent and achieve "some" of that potential. More than weepu who I now think will never learn. Heck Weepu has been in and out of the All Blacks since 2004, I think he has more talent than anyone else that has worn the 9 jersey for the all blacks in that time yet he's only had ~55 test caps?

I think it's just a contrast of values rather than tall poppy syndrome. As admartian pointed out, it's a red herring which is used to detract from what ever other point is made, often followed up with a smug smerk. What I value most in a player is dedication. Brad Thorn had an outstanding Rugby League and Rugby Union career, and I respect the hell out of him for it. Why? Because he did it the hard way and gave 100% of his time and commitment to what he chose to do. He actually earned very little when he resigned in 2002 but he wanted to be an All Black. When SBW played a few games for Canterbury he was then fast tracked to an EoYT, even though other players were playing better. He couldn't make the starting 12 spot in the All Blacks, so they chucked him on the wing. It's those little things that irk me, because it's the players that I feel are more dedicated and have earned those oppertunities, who miss out. I think the main point I'm trying to make is, yes he's a good player with a lot of talent, and I'm not annoyed that he has excelled at Rugby Union, what irks me is that he has excelled at the expense of other players whom I believe were more deserving. As I've pointed out though many times in the past, that's my problem with the attitude of the NZRU rather than Sonny Bill Williams. SBW is a bit of a show pony, but he's turned himself into a marketable brand and while I don't agree with all the hype, good on him for trying to achieve what ever whims he follows. It obviously takes quite a lot of hard work and natural ability to follow them.

As for your comment on Nonu and Weepu, I agree in part. Nonu has improved massively over the years, but while he's added a few more dimentions to his game, I think he's always been limited to an extent, as he's first and foremost a line breaker (and he's been successful at that). As much as I like him, I don't think he possessed as much potential as someone like Luke McAlister, whom I think is a more apt player to demonstrate a lack of dedication (or that could be my tall poppy syndrome kicking up again ). Piri Weepu I agree with a lot. If he had half as much resolve as someone like Byron Kelleher who spent 8 or so years being a second choice halfback and still worked his ass off to be in amazing shape, then he could have been great. He has great vision, but at times I feel his laziness to get to the breakdown as well as fitness issues, is what costs him.

 

[admartian]

aparently the squad will only have two halfbacks... so either Aaron smith will be hard done but or Weepu will be dropped!?

Squad will be 30 players.

As much as I love Weepu, I'd rather Smith get the chance (and have Ellis be the senior guy).

We need to bleed these new guys early.

I think it's just a contrast of values rather than tall poppy syndrome. As admartian pointed out, it's a red herring which is used to detract from what ever other point is made, often followed up with a smug smerk. What I value most in a player is dedication. Brad Thorn had an outstanding Rugby League and Rugby Union career, and I respect the hell out of him for it. Why? Because he did it the hard way and gave 100% of his time and commitment to what he chose to do. He actually earned very little when he resigned in 2002 but he wanted to be an All Black. When SBW played a few games for Canterbury he was then fast tracked to an EoYT, even though other players were playing better. He couldn't make the starting 12 spot in the All Blacks, so they chucked him on the wing. It's those little things that irk me, because it's the players that I feel are more dedicated and have earned those oppertunities, who miss out. I think the main point I'm trying to make is, yes he's a good player with a lot of talent, and I'm not annoyed that he has excelled at Rugby Union, what irks me is that he has excelled at the expense of other players whom I believe were more deserving. As I've pointed out though many times in the past, that's my problem with the attitude of the NZRU rather than Sonny Bill Williams. SBW is a bit of a show pony, but he's turned himself into a marketable brand and while I don't agree with all the hype, good on him for trying to achieve what ever whims he follows. It obviously takes quite a lot of hard work and natural ability to follow them.

As for your comment on Nonu and Weepu, I agree in part. Nonu has improved massively over the years, but while he's added a few more dimentions to his game, I think he's always been limited to an extent, as he's first and foremost a line breaker (and he's been successful at that). As much as I like him, I don't think he possessed as much potential as someone like Luke McAlister, whom I think is a more apt player to demonstrate a lack of dedication (or that could be my tall poppy syndrome kicking up again ). Piri Weepu I agree with a lot. If he had half as much resolve as someone like Byron Kelleher who spent 8 or so years being a second choice halfback and still worked his ass off to be in amazing shape, then he could have been great. He has great vision, but at times I feel his laziness to get to the breakdown as well as fitness issues, is what costs him.

Completely agreed especially with the bolded part.

I've always thought Piri had the ability to b the best halfback in the world, just didn't work at it. Same with McAlister. Should be a cautionary tale in regards to leaving too early, and I feel like when he returned, and when he didn't perform and/or wasn't favoured, just gave up again instead of working for it.

TBH, I think the NH ruined his game at a time where he was still largely developing it.

 

[SpanishBob]

I wouldn't even consider SBW. No room for a player whose future is out of Rugby Union. It's just a waste of time. Better to start giving chances to Fruean or any other potential All Black for 2015.

Nonu is one of my favourite players, but his current form is just awful. His season has been endless, and the Japan experience is not doing him any good. He is just exhausted.
Al Blacks coaches fidelity to Weepu is a sheer mistery to me. Even more right now with young talented players such as Smith, Perenara and Kerr Barlow wiating their chances. They are the future and should also be the present. Weepu is the past.

It's no time to be conservative, on the contrary it's time to risk. It makes no sense to insist with the World Cup squad.

 

[Larksea]

I thought SBW was selected on form, heck he was man of the match in one of his first few tests (Scotland)... either way the fact he's the best 12 around now I think shows that any faith given in his selection has been repayed

He is unique in the NZ system as in he hasn't come through the system, I dont see why it's an issue because it's how rugby works pretty much everywhere else in the world - we may see it more going forward.

 

[Larksea]

As much as I love Weepu, I'd rather Smith get the chance (and have Ellis be the senior guy).

I totally agree, we now have

Smith
Perinara
Barlow

We're really not reliant on weepu now with the tallent that's around, heck even Leonard is in much better form and he's still only 27

Weepu needs to be dropped. he' either take it as a boot up the arse and sort himself out or drop his pie and leave. Either way he needs to know it's not good enough

I think they should carry three 9's and bring one of the young guns in.

 

[Tadginator]

Sonny bill deserves a pick on his current form. Freuan is good in some respects but needs better decision making, consistency and just isn't as good all round as kahui or smith. He was a good team with sbw last year though.Weep shouldn't get picked, he hasn't worked for it and others are better. There is no way weep could meet the fitness standards for the all blacks.I don't think versatility should be so key in selection. On the pitch you only play your one position and you've got 30 men to cover injury and can call up someone if necessary.Did you see Graham Henry was knighted?????

 

[Patchey]

Didn't Hansen say he was going to 'stick with experience' or something rather than capping new players? I may be misquoting or taking what he said out of context but to me that seems like the likes of Weepu, who really should be dropped until he can actually run about a bit, may be retained purely because they've played a lot of tests rather than say capping newer players.

 

[lucky number 7]

Stephen Donald for 10

 

[admartian]

I totally agree, we now have

Smith
Perinara
Barlow

We're really not reliant on weepu now with the tallent that's around, heck even Leonard is in much better form and he's still only 27

Weepu needs to be dropped. he' either take it as a boot up the arse and sort himself out or drop his pie and leave. Either way he needs to know it's not good enough

I think they should carry three 9's and bring one of the young guns in.

I'd take a combination of Perenara, Smith, Kerr-Barlow, Leonard, Mathewson, or Ellis.

No way I'd want to see Cowan or Weepu there.

I hope to God Hansen is jsut smokescreening and will actually pick players based on form.

TBH, if Fruean is lacking, I'd rather a combination of Kahui and Smith in the midfield than Nonu or SBW.

 

[Larksea]

The problem for Hansen is that he has less than a week to prepare the team. I think if he had two weeks or more and time to do more than one training camp we could see more changes.

But with such a limited time I think we will likely see players like Nonu, Ali and Weepu rather than new caps or players who have been out of squads over 2011

That said not seeing one of the young gun/form halfbacks in the squad would really disapoint me

If I had my way I wouldn't pick any of the 2011 halfbacks!

 

[admartian]

The problem for Hansen is that he has less than a week to prepare the team. I think if he had two weeks or more and time to do more than one training camp we could see more changes.

But with such a limited time I think we will likely see players like Nonu, Ali and Weepu rather than new caps or players who have been out of squads over 2011

That said not seeing one of the young gun/form halfbacks in the squad would really disapoint me

If I had my way I wouldn't pick any of the 2011 halfbacks!

That still shouldn't stop him from a combination of Ellis/Leonard (experience) and Perenara/Smith or Kerr-Barlow.

 

[Larksea]

That still shouldn't stop him from a combination of Ellis/Leonard (experience) and Perenara/Smith or Kerr-Barlow.

he's said that there will only be two halfbacks in the 30man squad. And at a guess I think he'd have one outside the squad on standby.

 

[admartian]

he's said that there will only be two halfbacks in the 30man squad. And at a guess I think he'd have one outside the squad on standby.

I was hoping for an Ellis or Leonard + new guy rather than one that involved Weepu.

We'll have to wait and see I guess but now is the time to bleed in guys.

 

[Rhyer]

Weepu is a joke, he was rubbish in the world cup, a goal kicking halfback who can play 10? Please, Parra is much much better, no pot belly. But let's stick to New Zealand rugby players.

1) Woodcock
2) Hore
3) O.Franks
4) S.Whitelock
5) Retallick
6) Vito
7) McCaw
8) Read
9) A.Smith
10) Taylor
11) Masaga
12) Carter
13) Smith
14) Jane
15) Dagg

16) Elliot
17) Faumuina
18) Romano
19) Latimer
20) Ellis
21) Cruden
22) Nonu

This would be my 22 and what I think are the best 22 players in New Zealand this year. Some like Carter, McCaw and Nonu have retained their place due to their name and experience in a black jersey. Aaron Smith has been electrifying and would be immense behind a good forward pack. Vito is the best back up to Kaino. Sonny Bill has been RUBBISH, he has had the fortune of the Chiefs forward pack finally waking up yet taking all credit. Cruden is also mildly over rated and doing well on the back of a dominant forward pack.

Criticize the Taylor-Carter pairing but you can't argue that it's getting results! The last game they lost was against the Bulls and this pairing came on during the last 10 minutes which was the Crusaders grand attacking spell, where they scored 3 tries one of which was disallowed. Since then they have looked unbeatable. Taylor also has 38/44 this year which is 84.4% which a lot have been quite difficult.

 

[admartian]

Weepu is a joke, he was rubbish in the world cup, a goal kicking halfback who can play 10? Please, Parra is much much better, no pot belly. But let's stick to New Zealand rugby players.

1) Woodcock
2) Hore
3) O.Franks
4) S.Whitelock
5) Retallick
6) Vito
7) McCaw
8) Read
9) A.Smith
10) Taylor
11) Masaga
12) Carter
13) Smith
14) Jane
15) Dagg

16) Elliot
17) Faumuina
18) Romano
19) Latimer
20) Ellis
21) Cruden
22) Nonu

This would be my 22 and what I think are the best 22 players in New Zealand this year. Some like Carter, McCaw and Nonu have retained their place due to their name and experience in a black jersey. Aaron Smith has been electrifying and would be immense behind a good forward pack. Vito is the best back up to Kaino. Sonny Bill has been RUBBISH, he has had the fortune of the Chiefs forward pack finally waking up yet taking all credit. Cruden is also mildly over rated and doing well on the back of a dominant forward pack.

Criticize the Taylor-Carter pairing but you can't argue that it's getting results! The last game they lost was against the Bulls and this pairing came on during the last 10 minutes which was the Crusaders grand attacking spell, where they scored 3 tries one of which was disallowed. Since then they have looked unbeatable. Taylor also has 38/44 this year which is 84.4% which a lot have been quite difficult.

At his best, Weepu is a top halfback. His problem, he is tragically inconsistent and un-motivated. Yes, it's a massive problem. But no one claimed he is better than anybody right now! :lol:

I don't like Taylor as a starter. I see him more of a care-taker first-five (i.e. someone that will play in the NH - no offense ) without much flash or X-Factor. He'd be great in a tight game to help steady the ship if he ever needed to close out a game.

But don't think he could run rugby's version of the 2-minute offense; if they ever needed to mount a comeback.

 

[Aedaphon]

I don't like Taylor as a starter. I see him more of a care-taker first-five (i.e. someone that will play in the NH - no offense ) without much flash or X-Factor. He'd be great in a tight game to help steady the ship if he ever needed to close out a game.

But don't think he could run rugby's version of the 2-minute offense; if they ever needed to mount a comeback.

So Stephen Donald 2.0? :lol:

To Rhyer- Couple of holes to pick in your squad.

1) Masaga- Blistering in attack but unproven at international (and even Super) level on defence. Therefore should not be considered as the starting AB 11 above Guildford, Kahui et al. despite a great run of form for the Chiefs.

2) I have no problem with anyone taking issue at SBW's inclusion in the ABs due to his uncertain commitment to NZ but to call him rubbish is flat-out garbage. He has been a crucial part of a great Chiefs back line (along with the central axes of Kerr-Barlow, Cruden and Kahui). His attack has been less showy than last year but his defence has stepped out to a new level. Off of sheer form he would be my pick for 12.

However, due to the numerous other issues in play I wouldn't be too surprised by (or take much umbrage at) a Crusaders 10-12 pairing.

 

[admartian]

So Stephen Donald 2.0? :lol:

No way! :lol:

Tom Taylor is a tight, no-nonsense player. He doesn't display any jittery tendencies that Donald ever did. Not sure how he will go at international level, but he seems solid.

Just haven't seen anything from him to say elite. He's more like Morne Steyn in terms of play style, probably doesn't have as much range or clutchness (so far) in terms of kicking. But Morne's the guy he resembles the most.

 

[Aedaphon]

No one has helped steady a more unstable ship in a tight situation than Stephen Donald...

No one could claim that Stephen Donald has much flash or X-factor...

And where is Donald playing again?

 

[admartian]

No one has helped steady a more unstable ship in a tight situation than Stephen Donald...

No one could claim that Stephen Donald has much flash or X-factor...

And where is Donald playing again?

Okay... I don't know what you're trying to get at exactly. :huh: