France v Argentina - 22/11/2024 (20.10)

[Leonormous Boozer]

Jesus Christ.

 

[Yulia]

Beauty. Take back my words about tired France

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Just stupidly quick, makes international wingers look like they're wading through porridge

 

[AlRums]

Pearce is giving Argentina nothing.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Argentinian coaches must do a hell of a half time team talk

 

[Horacito]

there's so much to work to do
centers
scrum halfs
leadership

 

[OllyM97]

France have been good today but my god Argentina haven't half helped them along. So frustrating, they've not fired a shot really. A couple of times they've given themselves chances to put France under pressure and they haven't. Genuinely think had the Pumas got their act together here France could have crumbled.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

About the penalty try: watch the replay again.



My question is: imagine for a second a french player had done the same. Exactly the same, to the t, but wearing a blue jersey. Would you have questioned a knock-on call and scum for Arg in that hypothetical situation?

 

[Batsumy]

About the penalty try: watch the replay again.



My question is: imagine for a second a french player had done the same. Exactly the same, to the t, but wearing a blue jersey. Would you have questioned a knock-on call and scum for Arg in that hypothetical situation?

It is interesting because I thought at first the referee was nice to the argentinans, implying that the ball was going backward...but finally seeing the video, he made the right decision, clearly the ball was blatlantly knock forward (this is all about the hand)

 

[OllyM97]

I'm not a Pumas supporter, but the bias against them from referees in away matches is absolutely shocking. Time after time they get shocking decisions go against them that change games. There's been several examples this year - the second NZ game at Eden Park when you were thinking that the ABs were beatable, then Andrea Piardi gifts the ABs the game by whistling Argentina off the park in the first 15 minutes. Same thing happened in SA with Ben O'Keeffe, Arg don't get a YC or Red all tournament and then in the decider, they are on the end of a penalty blitz early in the game which destroys the contest before it even starts. Then you go to last week, Argentina got a sin-bin in the first 5 minutes that was never a card and it costs them 12 points, in a 3 point game. Then of course at the end, the referee gives a knock-on that was not at all clear and was preceded by a clear hand in the ruck from an Irish player. The Pumas were robbed of at least a draw by poor refereeing. Then tonight, there was a clear high-shot from a French player that was conveniently not shown on replay - and Montoya's yellow was absolute nonsense. I don't think the knock-on for the penalty try was deliberate either. What was the difference between that one and Etzebeths in the RWC?.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think the knock-on for the penalty try was deliberate either.

 

[AlRums]

I'm not a Pumas supporter, but the bias against them from referees in away matches is absolutely shocking. Time after time they get shocking decisions go against them that change games. There's been several examples this year - the second NZ game at Eden Park when you were thinking that the ABs were beatable, then Andrea Piardi gifts the ABs the game by whistling Argentina off the park in the first 15 minutes. Same thing happened in SA with Ben O'Keeffe, Arg don't get a YC or Red all tournament and then in the decider, they are on the end of a penalty blitz early in the game which destroys the contest before it even starts. Then you go to last week, Argentina got a sin-bin in the first 5 minutes that was never a card and it costs them 12 points, in a 3 point game. Then of course at the end, the referee gives a knock-on that was not at all clear and was preceded by a clear hand in the ruck from an Irish player. The Pumas were robbed of at least a draw by poor refereeing. Then tonight, there was a clear high-shot from a French player that was conveniently not shown on replay - and Montoya's yellow was absolute nonsense. I don't think the knock-on for the penalty try was deliberate either. What was the difference between that one and Etzebeths in the RWC?.

The amusing part is the knock on actually traveled 2 metres backwards.

 

[Batsumy]

I'm not a Pumas supporter, but the bias against them from referees in away matches is absolutely shocking. Time after time they get shocking decisions go against them that change games. There's been several examples this year - the second NZ game at Eden Park when you were thinking that the ABs were beatable, then Andrea Piardi gifts the ABs the game by whistling Argentina off the park in the first 15 minutes. Same thing happened in SA with Ben O'Keeffe, Arg don't get a YC or Red all tournament and then in the decider, they are on the end of a penalty blitz early in the game which destroys the contest before it even starts. Then you go to last week, Argentina got a sin-bin in the first 5 minutes that was never a card and it costs them 12 points, in a 3 point game. Then of course at the end, the referee gives a knock-on that was not at all clear and was preceded by a clear hand in the ruck from an Irish player. The Pumas were robbed of at least a draw by poor refereeing. Then tonight, there was a clear high-shot from a French player that was conveniently not shown on replay - and Montoya's yellow was absolute nonsense. I don't think the knock-on for the penalty try was deliberate either. What was the difference between that one and Etzebeths in the RWC?.

I have not seen all the matches you are mentioning. I would agree that tonight, the referee has been on the rough side for Argentina on 2-3 decisons (Montoya yellow card was one of those perhaps). But I do not think this is what has made the difference. Argentina just did not have the weapons to beat France, as simple as that. They were their usual argentinan, lots of fightning spirit but not much of a collective brain. You could even say that the score could have been more significant for France if they did not start on the backfoot for the first 15 minutes, they did seem to not know how to play this match.and then they had a strong momentum where they should have scored at the beginning of the second half and they did not. Apart the penalty try, french tries were quite clear and the result of a french pressure. So all in all, I do not think tonite result was stolen. But I'm the first one to shout at referee decision. As a french, I have been feeling hard done by anglo-saxon referees (inclusive of the old colonies) for 50 years haha

 

[Batsumy]

The amusing part is the knock on actually traveled 2 metres backwards.

yes thats BS. They look at the hands direction now, are you aware of this ? There woul be much more knock on if there were just looking at the ball travelling...but they do not.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Then you go to last week, Argentina got a sin-bin in the first 5 minutes that was never a card and it costs them 12 points, in a 3 point game. Then of course at the end, the referee gives a knock-on that was not at all clear and was preceded by a clear hand in the ruck from an Irish player. The Pumas were robbed of at least a draw by poor refereeing. Then tonight, there was a clear high-shot from a French player that was conveniently not shown on replay - and Montoya's yellow was absolute nonsense. I don't think the knock-on for the penalty try was deliberate either.

I've never seen a post so efficiently wrong.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

About the penalty try: watch the replay again.



My question is: imagine for a second a french player had done the same. Exactly the same, to the t, but wearing a blue jersey. Would you have questioned a knock-on call and scum for Arg in that hypothetical situation?

Pearce is probably the only elite ref with the balls to make this decision.

I think he's right but I do think you are probably right that this would be called a knock on sometimes.

 

[Which Tyler]

About the penalty try: watch the replay again.

Forgot there was a Friday match this week, so I have no context within the game and the run of decisions - but that's a cast iron penalty try and yellow.
You're not allowed to deliberately throw/tap the ball off the field of play, and it's a knock-on by momentum (as are plenty of fumbles that go backwards on the pitch, but slower than they had been). Both of those things are penalty offences that prevented a probably try.

And you get bonus negativity from me for "making" me use twitter

 

[Horacito]

I'm not a Pumas supporter, but the bias against them from referees in away matches is absolutely shocking. Time after time they get shocking decisions go against them that change games. There's been several examples this year - the second NZ game at Eden Park when you were thinking that the ABs were beatable, then Andrea Piardi gifts the ABs the game by whistling Argentina off the park in the first 15 minutes. Same thing happened in SA with Ben O'Keeffe, Arg don't get a YC or Red all tournament and then in the decider, they are on the end of a penalty blitz early in the game which destroys the contest before it even starts. Then you go to last week, Argentina got a sin-bin in the first 5 minutes that was never a card and it costs them 12 points, in a 3 point game. Then of course at the end, the referee gives a knock-on that was not at all clear and was preceded by a clear hand in the ruck from an Irish player. The Pumas were robbed of at least a draw by poor refereeing. Then tonight, there was a clear high-shot from a French player that was conveniently not shown on replay - and Montoya's yellow was absolute nonsense. I don't think the knock-on for the penalty try was deliberate either. What was the difference between that one and Etzebeths in the RWC?.

I agree with the sentiment, and I think there are two reasons for the bias against argentina:

-we are irrelevant in the rugby world (we are poor and, thus, irrelevant when it comes to decision making). Obviously, this shouldn't influence the ref, but being of a lesser status comes with cons and that's fine I guess.
-secondly, we have a reputation for being prone to penalties, and that is entirely our fault. I think Peirce (who is a fantastic ref) wanted to take control of the game earlier and he had to make a tough call at the beginning, but it backfired and then his calls lacked rigour and consistency

I agree that González had to go to the sin bin, because the tap was made in bad faith: he should've jumped on the ball and the french winger woulda been expelled at light speed due to the weight difference. However, there were some calls that I don't agree with and I do think that it's a bit worrying that refs are taking such protagonism in this window.
However, all in all, argentina needs to sort some things out to finally enter the elite of the tier1:

-First, I don't think Pablo Matera should start with the current landscape of our backrow, we need someone younger and more dominant on contact. He's changed his style over the last couple of years and we need his leadership in the last 30 min.
-yesterday most of France's momentum was built on our lack of impact on the center, both defense and attack. We need to sort out our center, if need be we have to put Mallia there, because Chocobares is the only world class player we have in that position. Yesterday, Moroni had a bad game and it was massively important. It's already two bad games for him and although I love him and respect him, he's not up to this level anymore. Cinti had a terrible game.
-Lautaro Bazán Velez was so-so, at a time when we needed to keep momentum with our scrum-half.
-yesterday it was the first time in a while when our decision making was bad, even from Mallia (our best player at the moment), basically gifting the french a try.
-I don't think Julián Montoya should be our captain anymore
-Gonchi García is HIM. I am so pleased with the kind of game he displayed yesterday: he stole two from Dupont. Good box kick. FINALLY, a scrum half.
-Gallo had a great game and I'm looking forward to seeing his evolution.
--On the strategy and tactical side, some things really worked very well (2vs1, kicks at the beginning, counterattacks) but there were some real issues, the most important one probably is allowing 50-22s to a kicker like Ramos. This is such a big no-no, and I can't help but thinking that a more cerebral team wouldn't allow for that to happen, like NZ or SA/ IR would never just gift balls like that
-our first halves are terrible and it bears looking into

All in all, I think there's no question that France is a better team than us and it was a strong reminder that when it comes to elite level, every detail counts and some key areas need to be fixed. Our center field is in shambles without Choco, decision making and leadership are not at top level...

Still, a positive year and let's see if we can improve some key areas, I'm sure Felipe will figure all of it out

 

[dirty harry]

Argentina were a mix of poor, hard done by by the ref, and rizzed by the French...

I'm sorry, I don't care where the hands point, 2m backwards is not going to be a knock on in my eyes, same way we see passes go 3/4m forward but it's called fine. Forward is forward, backwards is backwards.

But there were a few things early on I didn't like that disrupted the Argentinians, 1 obviously the crowd boo'd everything, even the non incidents, but replays were very much seemingly 1 way. I don't know if Canal was doing it or what, but 3 Argintinian incidents weren't shown, and every incident for French benefit seemingly was.
Also for the first 2 Argy kicks the stadium click didn't appear, yet it did a few moments later for France. These seem like small errors in France favour but they matter.

France we're decent enough, I don't think they really were put under pressure much, those wingers are ridiculous! But Argentina just seemed out of their stride and disrupted early on and never recovered.

 

[Which Tyler]

Even if you disagree with the laws of physics existing on a rugby pitch (absolutely your right to do so, unless you're a ref), you can't really deny that deliberately knocking the ball out of the field of play is illegal, surely?