France v New Zealand - 16/11/2024 (20.10)

[Leonormous Boozer]

The anti-ABs brigade never ceases to amaze me…prior to the Northern tour, NZ were labeled as mediocre/average/nothing special/etc…after the Ireland game, it was said that the Irish had an off night, thus taking away any merit NZ would have had in that result…after yesterday game, we learn that a depleted France beat a "very good NZ side" …

P.S. There were far better all around players than Dupont who did not win the RWC…Rob Andrew, Jonah Lomu, Andrew Mehrtens, Carlos Spencer, Serge Blanco, Johnny Sexton, to name a few…so why would Dupont be entitled to win a RWC?

Is it possible that you're only taking the negatives on board and ignoring anything positive?

I know you had a go at me before the game. I think I've admitted twice here that I was wrong about Robertson and underestimated NZ. I also gave them their dues in my reactionary post to last week's game, albeit with greater focus on what Ireland did wrong naturally.

I also think you misinterpreted what was said about Dupont. And starting a list of better players than Dupont with Rob Andrew would suggest there's more of an agenda there than anything that's been said about NZ.

 

[OllyM97]

The anti-ABs brigade never ceases to amaze me…prior to the Northern tour, NZ were labeled as mediocre/average/nothing special/etc…after the Ireland game, it was said that the Irish had an off night, thus taking away any merit NZ would have had in that result…after yesterday game, we learn that a depleted France beat a "very good NZ side" …

P.S. There were far better all around players than Dupont who did not win the RWC…Rob Andrew, Jonah Lomu, Andrew Mehrtens, Carlos Spencer, Serge Blanco, Johnny Sexton, to name a few…so why would Dupont be entitled to win a RWC?

Oh bore off will you, you're a typical All Blacks fan. You take offence at any perceived slight. If you actually read what I said, you would know that I didn't say that Dupont was entitled to win a RWC. I actually said that he has a very good chance of winning one given the quality of side that France have got. NZ have the most sensitive fanbase in World Rugby. If you don't kowtow to the alter of the ABs then you're labelled "disrespectful ". If you're wondering why people like the ABs to lose, it's all to do with the arrogance and dismissive attitude of Kiwi supporters.

 

[Saintjay]

The anti-ABs brigade never ceases to amaze me…prior to the Northern tour, NZ were labeled as mediocre/average/nothing special/etc…after the Ireland game, it was said that the Irish had an off night, thus taking away any merit NZ would have had in that result…after yesterday game, we learn that a depleted France beat a "very good NZ side" …

P.S. There were far better all around players than Dupont who did not win the RWC…Rob Andrew, Jonah Lomu, Andrew Mehrtens, Carlos Spencer, Serge Blanco, Johnny Sexton, to name a few…so why would Dupont be entitled to win a RWC?

You were doing ok till you pulled out Rob Andrew.

 

[Horacito]

Well, the AB's looking better and better, I think in a couple of years we got ourselves another dominant NZ team

superb match, best one so far this year

 

[Derpus]

That's why France are a great team - they won against a very good NZ side when they weren't at their best and when facets of their game were going wrong. @Leonormous Boozer i agree with you about 2027 and next year's 6N but I don't see France beating Argentina easily next week - The Pumas are a very good side. I'll admit it, i really want France to win the next RWC. They would have won it last year with Ntamack at 10. I just can't see Dupont not winning a World Cup with the team around him.

The only satisfaction I took from last years RWC was seeing Ireland and France fail to live up to their favourites tag. From some of the talk you'd have thought France and Dupont had already won it going in.

 

[Alex Anghel]

Is it possible that you're only taking the negatives on board and ignoring anything positive?

I know you had a go at me before the game. I think I've admitted twice here that I was wrong about Robertson and underestimated NZ. I also gave them their dues in my reactionary post to last week's game, albeit with greater focus on what Ireland did wrong naturally.

I also think you misinterpreted what was said about Dupont. And starting a list of better players than Dupont with Rob Andrew would suggest there's more of an agenda there than anything that's been said about NZ.

I did not have a go at you in any moment, I apologized if it came across that way.

I don't have any agenda either regarding Dupont, when I was a kid/teen (early 80s), France was my favorite team out of the 5 Nations teams, due to their attacking style of play...those were memorable times, seeing Blanco, Sela, Camberabero, Lagisquet, etc.

I don't have anything against Ireland either, I like your country, the Irish people and whiskeys very much, so...

 

[Alex Anghel]

You were doing ok till you pulled out Rob Andrew.

What can I say? I kind of grew up with Jonathan Webb, Rob Andrew, Will Carling, Jeremy Guscott, the Underwood brothers, etc in terms of 5 Nations games in the 80s/early 90s, so it's understandable I might say .

 

[Which Tyler]

From some of the talk you'd have thought France and Dupont had already won it going in.

There was always that worry that they were going to believe their own hype, and almost treat the RWC itself as a procession before their inevitable crowning.
They did treat it that way, and the gods rewarded their hubris in the usual way.

I do think that next time, they'll be stronger for that experience, and better prepared without the expectations of the home nation.

 

[AlRums]

I did not have a go at you in any moment, I apologized if it came across that way.

I don't have any agenda either regarding Dupont, when I was a kid/teen (early 80s), France was my favorite team out of the 5 Nations teams, due to their attacking style of play...those were memorable times, seeing Blanco, Sela, Camberabero, Lagisquet, etc.

I don't have anything against Ireland either, I like your country, the Irish people and whiskeys very much, so...

Never forget the great Jean-Pierre Rives.

 

[AlRums]

What can I say? I kind of grew up with Jonathan Webb, Rob Andrew, Will Carling, Jeremy Guscott, the Underwood brothers, etc in terms of 5 Nations games in the 80s/early 90s, so it's understandable I might say .

Rob Andrew had one memorable drop goal in the 1995 RWC, otherwise nothing sticks in my memory about his play.

 

[Alex Anghel]

Never forget the great Jean-Pierre Rives.

Just checked, he was the only France great at the time who did not play on 23.11.1980, when we beat them 15-0 in Bucharest.

Those were the times when Italy/Soviet Union were our sparring partners, we were very close to be invited to join the 5 Nations, while Portugal/Spain couldn't be found on world rugby's map. But yeah, life moved on, times and things changed...

 

[miccloarch]

Those were the times when Italy/Soviet Union were our sparring partners, we were very close to be invited to join the 5 Nations

Romania would probably be as good as or better than Argentina now if this had happened.

 

[Alex Anghel]

Romania would probably be as good as or better than Argentina now if this had happened.

We couldn't join the 5 Nations for two main reasons, first because we were a country beyond the Iron Curtain and second due to the fact that in the period in which the tournament took place (February-March), our pitches were often in a very bad state, due to the harsh winters we used to have.

But after the fall of Communism in 1989, most of the team sports (handball, rugby, volleyball, basketball) started to gradually decrease in attractiveness for younger generations, thus the selection pool base being dramatically reduced.

 

[miccloarch]

We couldn't join the 5 Nations for two main reasons, first because we were a country beyond the Iron Curtain and second due to the fact that in the period in which the tournament took place (February-March), our pitches were often in a very bad state, due to the harsh winters we used to have.

But after the fall of Communism in 1989, most of the team sports (handball, rugby, volleyball, basketball) started to gradually decrease in attractiveness for younger generations, thus the selection pool base being dramatically reduced.

Well, politics aside, I'm endlessly fascinated at how good Romania was back in the day. I estimate you were "best of the rest" in Europe for like what, 4 decades? You beat France 8 times. Italy and Georgia have never reached that level.

Even in the 90s and 00s Romania was still pretty good.

 

[miccloarch]

ABs are improving game by game. That was their best performance of the year in my opinion. I think my earlier criticism of NZ was harsh. France are a great side who are never out of it regardless of the run of play. SA are the best team in the World but if the ABs or France played them next week I actually think they would beat the Springboks. SA against better teams would have lost in the last two games.

Boks are still the best team in the world I think but they've been far from perfect this year and have put in some average performances lately.

I underestimated the ABs myself, until the Ireland game in which they turned a corner. It wasn't a great game of course but Ireland's performance wasn't quite as bad as has been made out. Their defence was brilliant for most of it and they kept with us for 60-65 minutes.

Saturday's game made one thing clear I guess, these two teams are better than Ireland right now. But if they want advice from AB fans who saw their team choke at World Cups for 2 decades: this is the time for losses and bad performances. There's still 3 years of the cycle left to fix things. The time to peak is at the end of the cycle, not the start.

Everyone's going through some form of rebuilding, experimentation and/or youth development, which should be some consolation for the teams in bad form (except Wales, they're in a proper sh!tspiral).